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A nation to reckon with

Red Robin

Well-known member
All of Islam is ready to kill or die for their god. We live in a nation that isn't interested in either one. As a matter of fact, we really as a nation don't have a God that we trust in any longer. Never the less , as a pure military maneuver, change the operation to a conquer and dominate which will work. Get rid of the old plan of nation building. None of these muslim nations care a nickel about peace or sustained democracy. Bomb the stuffing out of them then go mop up the resistance with ground troops. Those that surrender can operate a government we establish , with our constitution to live by. Peace through force I say. Take their oil while we're at it to pay the monetary price of war.


http://www.newsmax.com/headline_story/iran_smart_bomb/2007/08/26/27491.html
 

don

Well-known member
yeah good luck with that. you can't control iraq but you're going to tame all the muslims and i'm sure international support for this idea will be underwhelming. you might want to go to work on something that might actually work and maybe adjust your vision of the world to reality.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
don said:
yeah good luck with that. you can't control iraq but you're going to tame all the muslims and i'm sure international support for this idea will be underwhelming. you might want to go to work on something that might actually work and maybe adjust your vision of the world to reality.
In case you havn't noticed Don, we are reality. If we want to wipe Iran or Iraq off the face of the earth, what is anyone going to do about it? We have vested interests there now for sure. We've lost our favorite sons there. It's worth fighting for.
 

don

Well-known member
wipe iran off the face of the earth and kiss israel goodbye because it will disappear too. this won't build a lot of confidence in the rest of your allies and you'll be isolated. it will be fortress america because americans won't be able to venture beyond your borders and american commercial interests all over the world will be wiped out. your simplistic strategy simply isn't workable. you might be the most powerful nation in the world but that's today and you're going to need allies to maintain that position. the usa will have to exist as part of the world because it can't control the whole world.
 

Texan

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
All of Islam is ready to kill or die for their god. We live in a nation that isn't interested in either one. As a matter of fact, we really as a nation don't have a God that we trust in any longer. Never the less , as a pure military maneuver, change the operation to a conquer and dominate which will work. Get rid of the old plan of nation building. None of these muslim nations care a nickel about peace or sustained democracy. Bomb the stuffing out of them then go mop up the resistance with ground troops. Those that surrender can operate a government we establish , with our constitution to live by. Peace through force I say. Take their oil while we're at it to pay the monetary price of war.
Wow, RR! :lol: Drastic action, for sure. Sounds good to me. Unfortunately, we don't have what it takes to do it. Too many Americans just want for life to go on as is - don't rock the boat. As a country, we are too spoiled. We won't make the necessary sacrifices. As you mentioned, "We live in a nation that isn't interested..." Sad, but true.

In this case, I think don is correct:

don said:
your simplistic strategy simply isn't workable. you might be the most powerful nation in the world but that's today and you're going to need allies to maintain that position. the usa will have to exist as part of the world because it can't control the whole world.

I don't always (or even usually :lol: ) agree with don, but I think all of us U.S. citizens should be more open-minded when it comes to hearing the thoughts of our friends and neighbors when they offer criticism. He's right - we can't control the whole World.

Sometimes I wish we would stop trying. Sometimes I think that I'm getting more isolationist the older I get. Sometimes I wish we could/would just bite the bullet and say to Hell with the rest of the World.

It seems to me that oil is the main thing that keeps us from doing that. And the more we become dependent on foreign trade to provide other essentials, the less likely it becomes that we can ever be self-sufficient as a country.

Too late? Possibly...
 

andybob

Well-known member
Texan, when you are forced to become self-sufficient you find you will exceed everyones' expectations in adjusting, we did when comprehensive sanctions were imposed on Rhodesia by the united nations in 1965, within a few years we were (illegally) exporting manufactured goods that we had previously imported, and as we initially set out to supply the home market, national pride ensured the quality was of the highest standard.
Due to the arms embargo and the increasing insurgency, we not only manufactured weapons suited to our conditions, but pioneered landmine proof vehicles and mine detection vehicles, the advanced versions of which are now being manufactured in the United States for use in Afganistan and Iraq. The bottom line, Texan, is we CAN do it if we want or need to!
 

Texan

Well-known member
andybob said:
Texan, when you are forced to become self-sufficient you find you will exceed everyones' expectations in adjusting, we did when comprehensive sanctions were imposed on Rhodesia by the united nations in 1965, within a few years we were (illegally) exporting manufactured goods that we had previously imported, and as we initially set out to supply the home market, national pride ensured the quality was of the highest standard.
Due to the arms embargo and the increasing insurgency, we not only manufactured weapons suited to our conditions, but pioneered landmine proof vehicles and mine detection vehicles, the advanced versions of which are now being manufactured in the United States for use in Afganistan and Iraq. The bottom line, Texan, is we CAN do it if we want or need to!
Great success story, andybob. I hope you're right about it working in this country...

Maybe I'm being too cynical or pessimistic, but the problems I see that would keep that from happening seem to be getting worse and worse with each generation. We have to look beyond the area that most ranchers live in. We need to look into the inner cities where most of the people are. What's important to those people? The vast majority of them?

Family values? Nope.

Do they have any desire to better themselves? Nope.

Desire for higher education? Or even finishing high school? Nope.

Are they willing to work for something important? Nope.

Do they even know HOW to work? Nope.

Are many of them willing to engage in criminal activity to provide what they want out of life? Yep.

Are most of the rest of them content to sit around and wait on the federal government to provide all of their needs? Yep.



The bad thing about all of that is that the generation I'm describing is now having kids of their own. A LOT of kids. A helluva lot more kids than the rest of us are having. And they're having them simply because they know they don't have to pay for them - the rest of us do. They're now 'raising' kids with their own 'values' - or lack of values.

Sure we see the occasional city kid and many of the rural kids that counter that impression. But only slightly - they counter the impression, but not the trend.

The sheer numbers of the bums with their hands out can't be overcome by people who are conservative by nature. Conservatives will never reproduce enough to stop it. This is LBJ's dream come true - liberalism at it's finest.

One of these days, the working class in this country will be outnumbered by the welfare class. When that happens....???????????
 

NMRANCHER

Well-known member
Texan said:
One of these days, the working class in this country will be outnumbered by the welfare class. When that happens....???????????

I think you are 10 to 20 years too late with that statement. :(
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
All of Islam is ready to kill or die for their god.

RR: I just gotta ask this since you claim to be one of the more ' god' fearing Christians of this flock on Ranchers.


Would you die for your god?


Yes or no. No wishy washy TV preacher answer here.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
This sounds like something from the "Family Security Matters" website. Here are a couple of others from that site:

"Caesar pacified Gaul by mass slaughter; he then used his successful army to crush all political opposition at home and establish himself as permanent ruler of ancient Rome. This brilliant action not only ended the personal threat to Caesar, but ended the civil chaos that was threatening anarchy in ancient Rome – thus marking the start of the ancient Roman Empire that gave peace and prosperity to the known world.
If President Bush copied Julius Caesar by ordering his army to empty Iraq of Arabs and repopulate the country with Americans, he would achieve immediate results: popularity with his military; enrichment of America by converting an Arabian Iraq into an American Iraq (therefore turning it from a liability to an asset); and boost American prestiege while terrifying American enemies.
He could then follow Caesar's example and use his newfound popularity with the military to wield military power to become the first permanent president of America, and end the civil chaos caused by the continually squabbling Congress and the out-of-control Supreme Court.
President Bush can fail in his duty to himself, his country, and his God, by becoming “ex-president” Bush or he can become “President-for-Life” Bush: the conqueror of Iraq, who brings sense to the Congress and sanity to the Supreme Court. Then who would be able to stop Bush from emulating Augustus Caesar and becoming ruler of the world? For only an America united under one ruler has the power to save humanity from the threat of a new Dark Age wrought by terrorists armed with nuclear weapons."



"Mexico now colonising the USA
Mexico is now (circa 2000) colonising America and imposing its language and culture. Though the Americans still have the strength of understanding to recognise that the Hispanic invasion should be stopped, they are unable to take the measures required to achieve this end. The very least that must be done to halt the Hispanic invasion is the mass enslavement, or execution, of the invaders, which must be followed by an American invasion of Mexico to enforce American language and values upon the Mexicans. But the citizens of the USA recoil from such ruthless violence (see 'the communal attitude to violence') and instead embrace delusion. They pretend their futile defence is not folly, ignore the slow but inevitable takeover of their country and persecute anyone who tries to dispel their illusions. America has lost its ability to defend itself and must eventually be overrun by people from other cultures."

Ugly, ugly stuff.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Red Robin said:
All of Islam is ready to kill or die for their god.

RR: I just gotta ask this since you claim to be one of the more ' god' fearing Christians of this flock on Ranchers.


Would you die for your god?


Yes or no. No wishy washy TV preacher answer here.
Yes. BTW I resent the statement "one of the more God fearing" all I have ever claimed is to be God fearing.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
ff said:
This sounds like something from the "Family Security Matters" website.
I have never heard of family security matters. I just made all that stuff up on my own. Unlike you liberals , I don't do just what the media says ff.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
I only see two choices in Iraq, stay and fight to win or leave and let the whole middle east explode. If we stay, we'll have to own the country for years or maybe for ever. If we leave, we'll be fine but some of our allies will sure take it on the chin. I wonder what don's attitude about America leaving would be if the southern border of his great country was the northern border of Iraq instead of the northern border of the greatest millitary nation on earth.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Silver said:
Red Robin said:
If we want to wipe Iran or Iraq off the face of the earth, what is anyone going to do about it?

Looks like those Sunday morning services are really taking root.
I have no clue what you're even talking about. If you think that as a Christian you have to be passive and nonresistant, you're wrong. If you're willing to state your position or the position of mine you're having a problem with I'll sure debate it. It's a lot easier to attack my Christian beliefs though isn't it.
 

Silver

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
Silver said:
Red Robin said:
If we want to wipe Iran or Iraq off the face of the earth, what is anyone going to do about it?

Looks like those Sunday morning services are really taking root.
I have no clue what you're even talking about. If you think that as a Christian you have to be passive and nonresistant, you're wrong. If you're willing to state your position or the position of mine you're having a problem with I'll sure debate it. It's a lot easier to attack my Christian beliefs though isn't it.

That made no sense to me either. I guess were talking different languages.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Silver said:
Red Robin said:
Silver said:
Looks like those Sunday morning services are really taking root.
I have no clue what you're even talking about. If you think that as a Christian you have to be passive and nonresistant, you're wrong. If you're willing to state your position or the position of mine you're having a problem with I'll sure debate it. It's a lot easier to attack my Christian beliefs though isn't it.

That made no sense to me either. I guess were talking different languages.
Sorry , I can easily explain my statement.

Here's what my post was in response to.
don said:
yeah good luck with that. you can't control iraq but you're going to tame all the muslims and i'm sure international support for this idea will be underwhelming. you might want to go to work on something that might actually work and maybe adjust your vision of the world to reality.
You see don was implying that we have to have support from other nations to do what ever we choose. I say we don't. If we choose to wipe iraq or iran off the face of the earth, what's any nation going to do about it? We're a strong military.
 

Silver

Well-known member
Ok. I'll play. I maintain that you're country, while a superpower, does not have the right to run around 'wiping countries off the face of the earth'. I don't believe might makes right. I don't go to church on Sundays but I do know a little bit about Jesus and I'm pretty sure He wouldn't like the idea either. In fact I believe that the idea that you appear support (might making right) is one really good method of creating ememies in perpetuity.
Another thought on the side... It doesn't appear that your military is as strong as it would need to be to invade AND OCCUPY a country of any signifigant size at this point. American military resources are stretched very thin on the basis of manpower.
And what could other countries do about it? Hmmm..... well there are plenty of ways the US could be hurt economicly, but none that I know of that wouldn't hurt everybody involved. Kinda like in war, even the victors pay a price.
You might think I believe the US should pull out of Iraq. I don't. I believe it is now your responsibility to hang in there and fix this mess. I don't claim to have the answers on how it should be fixed either, but I hope you do it with as little loss of American and innocent Iraqi life as possible.
 
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