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A new standard of absurdity

Sandhusker

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
I already explained the difference between the two Sandbag. It's not my fault you can't comprehend it.

For the last and final time, consumers will accept total SRM removal ("something they believe might make the product safer but doesn't make the product less safe") but they will not accept deceptive bse testing (something that creates an "illusion of safety" and something they know, ONCE INFORMED, will absolutely not make the product safer).

That's the difference!


~SH~

For the last and final time, consumers will accept BSE testing (something they believe might make the product safer but doesn't make the product less safe) but they will not accept deceptive total SRM removal (something that creates an "illusion of safety" and something they know, ONCE INFORMED, will absolutely not make the product safer).

Notice how "total SRM removal" and "BSE testing" are interchangeable in your arguement? This is simply halarious! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

See what a clown you make yourself look like when you feel the need to defend the USDA's actions regardless? Even you have to realize how foolish your points are.

THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO, SH.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Mike said:
Does SH's reasoning make sense to ANYBODY? Please, help me out? ANYBODY?

I will have to say that he is the epitomy of ineffective reasoning.

I think he just likes the attention and will say anything to gain some. I really do. And I'm not laughing either.

I think he has the same inferiority complex that Lee Harvey Oswald had. Lee's problem led him to do some very controversial things (other than to kill the President of the US). He was a loner (lone wolf) who tried to stand out from the crowd. One thing he tried was to proclaim himself a marxist. His own brother said that if everybody around him was a marxist, he would of been a capitalist (USDA and AMI blanket supporter). He joined the Marines to be somebody different (SH joined R-CALF when it was first getting started) and, once discharged, moved to the Soviet Union. After a while there, they were tired of his crap, he realized it and came home. (quit R-CALF and joined NCBA) Upon his arrival back to the US, he thought he would be a big deal and had a self-serving BS speech prepared. ("My only bias is the truth", "I have never been refuted") He was very surprised when there was no press waiting for him (a legend in own mind). He had a hard time fitting in and quarreled with others often (think he quarrels here at all?) We all know the rest of the story.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike: "Prove it SH, Prove it. Like you always say, It was your statement, the burden of proof is on you. Are you lying, or just don't know the hell you're talking about? Which is it?

Watch this folks!"

PROVE IT????

How many cases of bse have been discovered in cattle under 24 months of age worldwide with universally accepted testing methodology?

HOW MANY MIKE????

How many world wide bse scientists are recommending bse testing of cattle under 24 months of age?

HOW MANY MIKE?????

Why did Fielding admit that "BSE TESTED" does not mean "BSE FREE" knowing that his statement was self defeating to his goal of accessing the Japanese market?

WHY MIKE????

Japan accepted US beef without testing.

WHY DID THEY DO THAT IF THEY WERE/ARE DEMANDING TESTING????

HOW MUCH FRICKIN' PROOF DO YOU WANT MIKE?


You know darn well that I'm not a bse research scientist and you sure as heck aren't either. I trust the science that has been accepted by those who are taxed with the responsibility of food safety as opposed to the five and dime critics who spend their whole lives blaming others in their little blamers support groups.

What are you trying to say anyway Mike? What's your point? Are you trying to justify your desire to capitalize on the fears of SOME Japanese consumers by creating "AN ILLUSION" that bse testing cattle under 24 months of age will detect bse prions??? It's bullsh*t! You know it and I know it. At least be honest with yourself. At least have the integrity to admit that you are willing to sell "THE ILLUSION OF SAFETY" to the Japanese consumer as opposed to "SCIENCE BASED SAFETY".

This is such a dumb-assed argument anyway. JAPAN HAS ALREADY IMPORTED UNTESTED BEEF FROM THE US. WHY ABSORB THE COSTS OF TESTING NOW ONLY TO SELL AN "ILLUSION OF SAFETY"? DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE???? The Japanese government has already taken a position on this issue contrary to yours. How much can they believe in testing if they themselves have agreed to import beef from the US without testing???

HOUSTON TO MIKE, HOUSTON TO MIKE!


Rod: "Its not US consumers that are buying the Japanese beef, its Japanese consumers, and they want the tests. Your US consumer question is nothing more than a diversion. And if you think that you, or the US consumer for that matter, know more about BSE testing and BSE tests than the Japanese government and the Japanese consumer, you're dreaming. They've lived with the disease for longer than we have, they've had more cases of it, and its hurting their economy more than it hurts ours. You better believe they know AT LEAST as much as we do, if not a whole lot more."

So if the Japan are so well versed on BSE, WHY THE HECK WOULD THEY DEMAND BSE TESTING IF THEY KNEW THAT THOSE TESTS WOULD NOT REVEAL BSE PRIONS??? Hmmmmm?????

How much sense does that make Rod???

The fact that the Japanese government has already accepted UNTESTED BEEF from the United States absolutely slam dunks that argument. Japan's actions speak louder than cheap talk from you.


Sandbag: "See what a clown you make yourself look like when you feel the need to defend the USDA's actions regardless? Even you have to realize how foolish your points are.

THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO, SH."

I understand how you think you have to justify selling the "ILLUSION OF SAFETY" in your mind. I would expect nothing less from a deceiver like you. You've shown your cards many times.

Your total SRM removal argument is the same as your stupid argument about USDA allowing the sale of organic. In both cases, these actions are going beyond what science says is safe. Growth hormones have already been approved by FDA for use in cattle. Residue testing of growth implants in beef has been extensive. Neither adds to the safety but neither has the potential to hurt consumers. Both error on the side of safety.

In contrast, bse testing of cattle under 24 months of age creates an image that if bse prions were there, they would be detected. THAT'S NOT THE CASE. BSE prions could be present and not be detected. To sell bse tested beef from cattle under 24 months of age and create an illusion of safety not supported by science makes a mockery out of scientific research. CONSUMERS WHO KNEW WOULD NEVER STAND FOR IT.

THAT'S THE FRICKIN' DIFFERENCE!

You can't see it and you'll never see it becasuse this is one of the few issues you "BELIEVE" you can successfully argue but you can't. CONSUMERS WILL NEVER STAND FOR DECEPTIVE TESTING ONCE THEY KNOW THE FACTS, NEVER! You know it and I know it but you proceed ahead with a "what they don't know wont hurt them" attitude like the damn deceptive person you are.

What part of the fact that Japan has already accepted untested beef from the United States do you not understand? THEY'RE NOT DEMANDING YOUR "ILLUSION OF SAFETY".

If they were demanding it, you have no problem selling deception, I do.

AGAIN, I have no problem supporting BSE testing WITH APPROVED TESTS THAT WILL ACTUALLY DO WHAT THEY SAY THEY WILL.

The other half of this argument is a post that Mike reminded me of. The fact that a USDA representative said those tests were illegal because they had not been approved by USDA. Not only is the test deceptive, according to one USDA representative, IT'S ILLEGAL!

Who the hell am I to discourage you from supporting "ILLEGAL" consumer deception????


Sandbag: "THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO, SH."

I can absolutely guarantee you that if Japanese consumers knew that the bse tests Creekstone planned to use would not reveal bse prions in cattle under 24 months of age, they would never accept them. Obviously their government has seen the light or they would not have accepted untested beef from the United States.

You guys make a mockery out of scientific research.


Sandbag: "I think he has the same inferiority complex that Lee Harvey Oswald had. Lee's problem led him to do some very controversial things (other than to kill the President of the US). He was a loner (lone wolf) who tried to stand out from the crowd. One thing he tried was to proclaim himself a marxist. His own brother said that if everybody around him was a marxist, he would of been a capitalist (USDA and AMI blanket supporter). He joined the Marines to be somebody different (SH joined R-CALF when it was first getting started) and, once discharged, moved to the Soviet Union. After a while there, they were tired of his crap, he realized it and came home. (quit R-CALF and joined NCBA) Upon his arrival back to the US, he thought he would be a big deal and had a self-serving BS speech prepared. ("My only bias is the truth", "I have never been refuted") He was very surprised when there was no press waiting for him (a legend in own mind). He had a hard time fitting in and quarreled with others often (think he quarrels here at all?) We all know the rest of the story."

Yet another feeble attempt to discredit anyone who you cannot debate. Always seeking solace in your little blaming support group. I should so easily be dismissed but you come back day after day after day to try to throw more sh*t against me hoping that something will stick but all you ever end up with is another hand full of sh*t. You can't even win a bet without my willingness to prove myself wrong and my willingness to admit it and pay up.

No wonder you will go to such great lengths in your desperate attempts to discredit me. No wonder you seek solace in your little packer blaming support groups. All I can say is that is speaks volumes to your level of self confidence in your arguments. All you have is the ability to spin and divert and the need to blame. You couldn't back your views with facts if your life depended on it. "L"!


~SH~
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Keep posting, SH. The more you post, the more credibility you lose, and the more us "packer blamers" love it.

SH, "I can absolutely guarantee you that if Japanese consumers knew that the bse tests Creekstone planned to use would not reveal bse prions in cattle under 24 months of age, they would never accept them"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You can't even guarantee you can get your boots on the right feet, but you know the minds of the Japanese consumers...... :roll: Come out of your happy place, SH. Come join the rest is us in the bright light of reality.

I have to laugh at you saying the Japanese consumers read R-CALF statements and are led astray, but I guess they don't read anything from the USDA or Creekstone. You know them so well, please start a new thread and explain why they don't read anything from the USDA. Why do they only believe R-CALF and not USDA or Creekstone?

SH, there is no difference between total removal and testing.

There is no difference between total SRM removal and BSE testing. NONE. N
 

Econ101

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
Mike: "Prove it SH, Prove it. Like you always say, It was your statement, the burden of proof is on you. Are you lying, or just don't know the hell you're talking about? Which is it?

Watch this folks!"

PROVE IT????

How many cases of bse have been discovered in cattle under 24 months of age worldwide with universally accepted testing methodology?

HOW MANY MIKE????

How many world wide bse scientists are recommending bse testing of cattle under 24 months of age?

HOW MANY MIKE?????

Why did Fielding admit that "BSE TESTED" does not mean "BSE FREE" knowing that his statement was self defeating to his goal of accessing the Japanese market?

WHY MIKE????

Japan accepted US beef without testing.

WHY DID THEY DO THAT IF THEY WERE/ARE DEMANDING TESTING????

HOW MUCH FRICKIN' PROOF DO YOU WANT MIKE?


You know darn well that I'm not a bse research scientist and you sure as heck aren't either. I trust the science that has been accepted by those who are taxed with the responsibility of food safety as opposed to the five and dime critics who spend their whole lives blaming others in their little blamers support groups.

What are you trying to say anyway Mike? What's your point? Are you trying to justify your desire to capitalize on the fears of SOME Japanese consumers by creating "AN ILLUSION" that bse testing cattle under 24 months of age will detect bse prions??? It's bullsh*t! You know it and I know it. At least be honest with yourself. At least have the integrity to admit that you are willing to sell "THE ILLUSION OF SAFETY" to the Japanese consumer as opposed to "SCIENCE BASED SAFETY".

This is such a dumb-assed argument anyway. JAPAN HAS ALREADY IMPORTED UNTESTED BEEF FROM THE US. WHY ABSORB THE COSTS OF TESTING NOW ONLY TO SELL AN "ILLUSION OF SAFETY"? DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE???? The Japanese government has already taken a position on this issue contrary to yours. How much can they believe in testing if they themselves have agreed to import beef from the US without testing???

HOUSTON TO MIKE, HOUSTON TO MIKE!


Rod: "Its not US consumers that are buying the Japanese beef, its Japanese consumers, and they want the tests. Your US consumer question is nothing more than a diversion. And if you think that you, or the US consumer for that matter, know more about BSE testing and BSE tests than the Japanese government and the Japanese consumer, you're dreaming. They've lived with the disease for longer than we have, they've had more cases of it, and its hurting their economy more than it hurts ours. You better believe they know AT LEAST as much as we do, if not a whole lot more."

So if the Japan are so well versed on BSE, WHY THE HECK WOULD THEY DEMAND BSE TESTING IF THEY KNEW THAT THOSE TESTS WOULD NOT REVEAL BSE PRIONS??? Hmmmmm?????

How much sense does that make Rod???

The fact that the Japanese government has already accepted UNTESTED BEEF from the United States absolutely slam dunks that argument. Japan's actions speak louder than cheap talk from you.


Sandbag: "See what a clown you make yourself look like when you feel the need to defend the USDA's actions regardless? Even you have to realize how foolish your points are.

THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO, SH."

I understand how you think you have to justify selling the "ILLUSION OF SAFETY" in your mind. I would expect nothing less from a deceiver like you. You've shown your cards many times.

Your total SRM removal argument is the same as your stupid argument about USDA allowing the sale of organic. In both cases, these actions are going beyond what science says is safe. Growth hormones have already been approved by FDA for use in cattle. Residue testing of growth implants in beef has been extensive. Neither adds to the safety but neither has the potential to hurt consumers. Both error on the side of safety.

In contrast, bse testing of cattle under 24 months of age creates an image that if bse prions were there, they would be detected. THAT'S NOT THE CASE. BSE prions could be present and not be detected. To sell bse tested beef from cattle under 24 months of age and create an illusion of safety not supported by science makes a mockery out of scientific research. CONSUMERS WHO KNEW WOULD NEVER STAND FOR IT.

THAT'S THE FRICKIN' DIFFERENCE!

You can't see it and you'll never see it becasuse this is one of the few issues you "BELIEVE" you can successfully argue but you can't. CONSUMERS WILL NEVER STAND FOR DECEPTIVE TESTING ONCE THEY KNOW THE FACTS, NEVER! You know it and I know it but you proceed ahead with a "what they don't know wont hurt them" attitude like the damn deceptive person you are.

What part of the fact that Japan has already accepted untested beef from the United States do you not understand? THEY'RE NOT DEMANDING YOUR "ILLUSION OF SAFETY".

If they were demanding it, you have no problem selling deception, I do.

AGAIN, I have no problem supporting BSE testing WITH APPROVED TESTS THAT WILL ACTUALLY DO WHAT THEY SAY THEY WILL.

The other half of this argument is a post that Mike reminded me of. The fact that a USDA representative said those tests were illegal because they had not been approved by USDA. Not only is the test deceptive, according to one USDA representative, IT'S ILLEGAL!

Who the hell am I to discourage you from supporting "ILLEGAL" consumer deception????


Sandbag: "THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO, SH."

I can absolutely guarantee you that if Japanese consumers knew that the bse tests Creekstone planned to use would not reveal bse prions in cattle under 24 months of age, they would never accept them. Obviously their government has seen the light or they would not have accepted untested beef from the United States.

You guys make a mockery out of scientific research.


Sandbag: "I think he has the same inferiority complex that Lee Harvey Oswald had. Lee's problem led him to do some very controversial things (other than to kill the President of the US). He was a loner (lone wolf) who tried to stand out from the crowd. One thing he tried was to proclaim himself a marxist. His own brother said that if everybody around him was a marxist, he would of been a capitalist (USDA and AMI blanket supporter). He joined the Marines to be somebody different (SH joined R-CALF when it was first getting started) and, once discharged, moved to the Soviet Union. After a while there, they were tired of his crap, he realized it and came home. (quit R-CALF and joined NCBA) Upon his arrival back to the US, he thought he would be a big deal and had a self-serving BS speech prepared. ("My only bias is the truth", "I have never been refuted") He was very surprised when there was no press waiting for him (a legend in own mind). He had a hard time fitting in and quarreled with others often (think he quarrels here at all?) We all know the rest of the story."

Yet another feeble attempt to discredit anyone who you cannot debate. Always seeking solace in your little blaming support group. I should so easily be dismissed but you come back day after day after day to try to throw more sh*t against me hoping that something will stick but all you ever end up with is another hand full of sh*t. You can't even win a bet without my willingness to prove myself wrong and my willingness to admit it and pay up.

No wonder you will go to such great lengths in your desperate attempts to discredit me. No wonder you seek solace in your little packer blaming support groups. All I can say is that is speaks volumes to your level of self confidence in your arguments. All you have is the ability to spin and divert and the need to blame. You couldn't back your views with facts if your life depended on it. "L"!


~SH~

SH, you are sounding like DW on Arthur. If I wanted to argue with a 5 year old, I have one at home that is a lot more interesting than you will ever be.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandbag: "You can't even guarantee you can get your boots on the right feet, but you know the minds of the Japanese consumers...... "

Only a handful of USDA blamers could be so incredibly stupid as to actually believe that if the Japanese consumers knew that Creekstone's test would not reveal bse prions in cattle under 24 months of age, they would desire testing anyway. Meanwhile their government has allowed imports of beef from the US without testing.

You guys have lost any and all elements of common sense.


Japanese consumer: "WE WANT TEST BEEF"

USDA: "But those tests won't reveal bse prions"

Japanese consumer: "YAH BUT WE WANT TEST BEEF"

USDA: "Your government has already accepted untested beef because those tests wont reveal bse prions"

Japanese consumer: "YAH BUT WE WANT TEST BEEF".

USDA: "Those tests are illegal because they have to be approved by USDA"

Japanese consumer: "YAH BUT WE WANT TEST BEEF"

USDA: "OK, YOU TALKED US INTO IT, YOU CAN HAVE TEST BEEF"


There's your fantasy world Austin!

What an idiot!


~SH~
 

Mike

Well-known member
[/quote]How many cases of bse have been discovered in cattle under 24 months of age worldwide with universally accepted testing methodology?
Japan had a 21 month old case. Why do you think they set their conditions at 21 months?
How many cases of BSE got us locked out of the Asian market? How many cases got Canada locked out of our market? Clue: It only takes one.
How many world wide bse scientists are recommending bse testing of cattle under 24 months of age?
Off the top of my head only the most prominent BSE scientist in the world is calling for all animals to be tested for a period to actually eradicate it.
Why did Fielding admit that "BSE TESTED" does not mean "BSE FREE" knowing that his statement was self defeating to his goal of accessing the Japanese market?
Maybe he knows that the specificity and/or selectivity is not 100%, but only around 99%+?
Japan accepted US beef without testing.
"Accepted" past tense. Are we shipping now?

Here's my point. The USDA has made a fool of itself with BSE in the USA.
Had they allowed Creekstone their wishes we wouldn't be talking about it now. Had they been removing SRM's, maybe Japan wouldn't have turned that boat around after the Washington cow and the meat wouldn't have gone in the chain. Had they used newer tests, the Texas cow would not have been a factor and the newspapers wouldn't be writing columns everyday putting the scare in consumers. They are incompetent at their jobs and the whole world knows it.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
SH, "Only a handful of USDA blamers could be so incredibly stupid as to actually believe that if the Japanese consumers knew that Creekstone's test would not reveal bse prions in cattle under 24 months of age, they would desire testing anyway. "

How many times do I have to point out that you don't know what the Japanese know and don't know?

Do you think the Japanese know total SRM removal does nothing to improve safety?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike: "Japan had a 21 month old case. Why do you think they set their conditions at 21 months?"

First, that was never confirmed by US researchers.

Second, one case of an UNCONFIRMED BY THE US animal in Japan under 21 months of age DOES NOTHING TO TELL YOU HOW MANY CASES UNDER 21 MONTHS OF AGE HAD BSE IN THEIR SYSTEM BUT WOULD NOT TEST POSITIVE BECAUSE IT WAS UNDETECTABLE.

More selling of the "ILLUSION OF SAFETY".


Mike: "Off the top of my head only the most prominent BSE scientist in the world is calling for all animals to be tested for a period to actually eradicate it."

Well WHOOPI!!!

Who considers him "THE MOST PROMINENT BSE SCIENTIST"???

You? Because he said what you wanted to hear????

You bet!


Mike: "Maybe he knows that the specificity and/or selectivity is not 100%, but only around 99%+?"

MORE DECEPTION! You pulled that out of the air.

MAYBE HE KNOWS THAT THE SPECIFICITY AND/OR SELECTIVITY IS NOT 100%, BUT ONLY AROUND LESS THAN 1%.

MAYBE!


Mike: "Accepted" past tense. Are we shipping now?"

IRRELEVANT!

The reason we are not shipping beef to Japan now doesn't have a damn thing to do with testing. It has to do with the fact that bone in product was prohibited and bone in product was shipped.


Mike: "Here's my point. The USDA has made a fool of itself with BSE in the USA. Had they allowed Creekstone their wishes we wouldn't be talking about it now. Had they been removing SRM's, maybe Japan wouldn't have turned that boat around after the Washington cow and the meat wouldn't have gone in the chain. Had they used newer tests, the Texas cow would not have been a factor and the newspapers wouldn't be writing columns everyday putting the scare in consumers. They are incompetent at their jobs and the whole world knows it."

NOWHERE HAS ANYONE PROVIDED PROOF THAT THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED BSE TESTED BEEF. NOWHERE!

Nothing but a statement creating that "ILLUSION".

The fact remains, Japan accepted beef without testing and you want to create an illusion that bse tests THAT ARE APPROVED will do something that bse scientists say they won't.



~SH~
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
Rod: "Its not US consumers that are buying the Japanese beef, its Japanese consumers, and they want the tests. Your US consumer question is nothing more than a diversion. And if you think that you, or the US consumer for that matter, know more about BSE testing and BSE tests than the Japanese government and the Japanese consumer, you're dreaming. They've lived with the disease for longer than we have, they've had more cases of it, and its hurting their economy more than it hurts ours. You better believe they know AT LEAST as much as we do, if not a whole lot more."

So if the Japan are so well versed on BSE, WHY THE HECK WOULD THEY DEMAND BSE TESTING IF THEY KNEW THAT THOSE TESTS WOULD NOT REVEAL BSE PRIONS??? Hmmmmm?????

How much sense does that make Rod???

Maybe their scientists feel differently? Maybe they believe the tests do work in animals under 24 months? If so, why would you believe they're wrong and we in North America are right? Thats the epitome of arrogance.

Besides, you keep asking me why I should protect feeders from themselves, vis-a-vis marketing agreements. So why should we protect the Japanese from themselves?

I think this is nothing more than a fear based arguement that the US will find more BSE in their herds than is currently the case. Even if you do, Japan has demonstrated that they don't care if you find BSE, just that you've caught it.

Rod
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
SH, "NOWHERE HAS ANYONE PROVIDED PROOF THAT THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED BSE TESTED BEEF. NOWHERE! Nothing but a statement creating that "ILLUSION"."

You never learn, do you? Don't you remember making the very similar statement time and time again about Japan not asking for tested beef? Mike brought a statement from Veneman that you should of learned from.

Japan asked for tested beef - that is an undeniable fact. Now you're questioning if they would accept THEIR OWN DEMAND? :shock: The 'ILLUSION" here is that you are capable of rational thought. You need to go to the Dr. and get that heart tattoo with USDA in the middle removed.
 

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