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A VERY GOOD READ....

Hanta Yo

Well-known member
I didn't check this out with Snopes. HOWEVER I totally agree with the philosophy......IMHO maybe some of you oughtta take a real look at yourselves and YOUR philosophies....OT, I hope you choke on this one...


MOST OF US ARE NOT OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER THAT NEARLY EVERY FAMILY IN AMERICA WAS GROSSLY AFFECTED BY WW II . MOST OF US DON'T REMEMBER THE RATIONING OF MEAT, SHOES, GASOLINE, AND SUGAR. NO TIRES FOR OUR AUTOMOBILES, AND A SPEED LIMIT OF 35 MILES AN HOUR ON THE ROAD, NOT TO MENTION, NO NEW AUTOMOBILES.. READ THIS AND THINK ABOUT HOW WE WOULD REACT TO BEING TAKEN OVER BY FOREIGNERS.

Historical Significance

Some sixty- five years ago, Nazi Germany had overrun almost all of Europe and hammered England to the verge of bankruptcy and defeat. The Nazis had sunk more than 400 British ships in their convoys between England and America taking food and war materials..

At that time the US was in an isolationist, pacifist mood, and most Americans wanted nothing to do with the European or the Asian war.

Then along came Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, and in outrage Congress unanimously declared war on Japan , and the following day on Germany , who had not yet attacked us. It was a dicey thing. We had few allies.

France was not an ally, as the Vichy government of France quickly aligned itself with its German occupiers. Germany was c ertainly not an ally, as Hitler was intent on setting up a Thousand Year Reich in Europe . Japan was not an ally, as it was well on its way to owning and controlling all of Asia .

Together, Japan and Germany had long-range plans of invading Canada and Mexico , as launching pads to get into the United States over our northern and southern borders, after they finished gaining control of Asia and Europe .

America's only allies then were England, Ireland, Scotland, Canada, Australia, and Russia . That was about it All of Europe, from Norway to Italy (except Russia i n the East) was already under the Nazi heel.

The US was certainly not prepared for war. The US had drastically downgraded most of its military forces after WW I because of the depression, so that at the outbreak of WW II, Army units were training with broomsticks because they didn't have guns, and cars with "tank" painted on the doors because they didn't have real tanks A huge chunk of our Navy had just been sunk or damaged at Pearl Harbor.

Britain had already gone bankrupt, saved only by the donation of $600 million in gold bullion in the Bank of England (that was actually the property of Belgium ) given by Belgium to England to carry on the war when Belgium was overrun by Hitler (a little known fact).

Actually, Belgium surrendered on one day, because it was unable to oppose the German invasion, and the Germans bombed Brussels into rubble the next day just to prove they could.

Britain had already been holding out for two years in the face of stag gering losses and the near decimation of its Royal Air Force in the Battle of Britain, and was saved from being overrun by Germany only because Hitler made the mistake of thinking the Brits were a relatively minor threat that could be dealt with later. Hitler, first turned his attention to Russia, in the late summer of 1940 at a time when England was on the verge of collapse.

Ironically, Russia saved America 's butt by putting up a desperate fight for two years, until the US got geared up to begin hammering away at Germany.

Russia lost something like 24,000,000 people in the sieges of Stalingrad and Moscow alone . . . 90% of them from cold and starvation, mostly civilians, but also more than a 1,000,000 soldiers.

Had Russia surrendered, Hitler would have been able to focus his entire war effort against the Brits, then America . If that had happened, the Nazis could possibly have won the war.

All of this has been brought out to illustrate tha t turning points in history are often dicey things. Now, we find ourselves at another one of those key moments in history.

There is a very dangerous minority in Islam that either has, or wants, and may soon have, the ability to deliver small nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons, almost anywhere in the world.

The Jihadis, the militant Muslims, are basically Nazis in Kaffiyahs -- th ey believe that Islam, a radically conservative form of Wahhabi Islam, should own and control the Middle East first, then Europe, then the world. To them, all who do not bow to their will of thinking should be killed, enslaved, or subjugated. They want to finish the Holocaust, destroy Israel , and purge the world of Jews. This is their mantra. (goal)

There is also a civil war raging in the Middle East -- for the most part not a hot war, but a war of ideas. Islam is having its Inquisition and its Reformation, but it is not yet known which side will win -- the Inq uisitors, or the Reformationists.

If the Inquisition wins, then the Wahhabis, the Jihadis, will control the Middle East, the OPEC oil, and the US , European, and Asian economies.

The techno-industrial economies will be at the mercy of OPEC -- not an OPEC dominated by the educated, rational Saudis of today, but an OPEC dominated by the Jihadis. Do you want gas in your car? Do y ou want heating oil next winter? Do you want the dollar to be worth anything? You had better hope the Jihad, the Muslim Inquisition, loses, and the Islamic Reformation wins.

If the Reformation movement wins, that is, the moderate Muslims who believe that Islam can respect and tolerate other religions, live in peace with the rest of the world, and move out of the 10th century into the 21st, then the troubles in the Middle East will eventually fade away. A moderate and prosperous Middle East will emerge.

We have to help the Reformation win, and to do that we have to fight the Inquisition, ie., the Wahhabi movement, the Jihad, Al Qaeda and the Islamic terrorist movements. We have to do it somewhere. We can't do it everywhere at once. We have created a focal point for the battle at a time and place of our choosing . .. . .. . . . . in Iraq . Not in New York , not in London , or Paris or Berlin , but in Iraq , where we are doing two important things.

(1) We deposed Saddam Hussein. Whether Saddam Hussein was directly involved in the 9/11 terrorist attack or not, it is undisputed that Saddam has been actively supporting the terrorist movement for decades Saddam is a terrorist! Saddam is, or was, a weapon of mass destruction, responsible for the deaths of probably more than a 1,000,000 Iraqis and 2,000,000 Iranians ..

(2) We created a battle, a confrontation, a flash point, with Islamic terrorism in Iraq . We have focused the battle. We are killing bad people, and the ones we get there we won't have to get here. We also have a good shot at creating a democratic, peaceful Iraq, which will be a catalyst for democratic change in the rest of the Middle East, and an outpost for a stabilizing American military presence in the Middle East for as long as it is needed

WW II, the war with the Japanese and German Nazis, really began with a "whimper" in 1928. It did not begin with Pearl Harbor .. It began with the Japanese invasion of China . It was a war for fourteen years before the US joined it. It officially ended in 1945 -- a 17 year war -- and was followed by another decade of US occupation in Germany and Japan to get those countries reconstructed and running on their own a gain . . a 27 year war.

WW II cost the United States an amount equal to approximately a full year's GDP -- adjusted for inflation, equal to about $12 trillion dollars. WW II cost America more than 400,000 soldiers killed in action, a nd nearly 100,000 still missing in action.

The Iraq war has, so far, cost the United States about $160,000,000,000, which is roughly what the 9/11 terrorist attack cost New York. It has also cost about 3,000 American lives, which is roughly equivalent to lives that the Jihad killed (within the United States ) in the 9/11 terrorist attack.

The cost of not fighting and winning WW II w ould have been unimaginably greater -- a world dominated by Japanese Imperialism and German Nazism.

This is not a 60-Minutes TV show, or a 2-hour movie in which everything comes out okay. The real world is not like that. It is messy, uncertain, and sometimes bloody and ugly. It always has been, and probably always will be.

The bottom line is that we will have to deal with Islamic terrorism until we defeat it, whenever that is. It will not go away if we ignore it.

If the US can create a reasonably democratic and stable Iraq , then we have an ally, like England , in the Middle East, a platform, from which we can work to help modernize and moderate the Middle East .. The history of the world is the clash between the forces of relative civility and civilization, and the barbarians clamoring at the gates to conquer the world.

The Iraq War is merely another battle in this ancient and never ending war. Now, for the first time ever, the barbarians are about to get nuclear weapons. Unless some body prevents them from getting them.

We have four options:

1 . We can defeat the Jihad now, before it gets nuclear weapons.

2 . We can fight the Jihad later, after it gets nuclear weapons (which may be as early as next year, if Iran 's progress on nuclear weapons is what Iran claims it is).

3 . We can surrender to the Jihad and accept its dominance in the Middle East now; in Europe in the next few years or decades, and ultimately in America .

OR

4 . We can stand down now, and pick up the fight later when the Jihad is more widespread and better armed, perhaps after the Jihad has dominated France and Germany and possibly most of the rest of Europe . It will, of course, be more dangerous, more expensive, and much bloodier.

If you oppose this war, I hope you like the idea that your children, or grandchildren, may live in an Islamic America under the Mullahs and the Sharia, an America that resembles Iran today.

The history of the world is the history of civilization clashes, cultural clashes. All wars are about ideas, ideas about what society and civilization should be like, and the most determined always win.

Those who are willing to be the most ruthless always win. The pacifists always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them.

Remember, perspective is every thing, and America 's schools teach too little history for perspective to be clear, especially in the young American mind.

The Cold War lasted from about 1947 at least until the Berlin Wall came down in 1989; forty-two years!

Europe spent the first half of the 19th century fighting Napoleon, and from 1870 to 1945 fighting Germany !

World War II began in 1928, lasted 17 years, plus a ten year occupation, and the US still has troops in Germany and Japan . World War II resulted in the death of more than 50,000,000 people, ma ybe more than 100,000,000 people, depending on which estimates you accept.

The US has taken more than 3,000 killed in action in Iraq .. The US took more than 4,000 killed in action on the morning of June 6, 1944, the first day of the Normandy Invasion to rid Europe of Nazi Imperialism.

In WW II the US averaged 2,000 KIA a week -- for four years. Most of the individual battles of WW II lost more Americans than the entire Iraq war has done so far.

The stakes are at least as high . . A world dominated by representative governments with civil rights, hum an rights, and personal freedoms . . or a world dominated by a radical Islamic Wahhabi movement, by the Jihad, under the Mullahs and the Sharia (Islamic law)

It's difficult to understand why the average American does not grasp this. They favor human rights, civil rights, liberty and freedom, but evidently not for Iraqis.

"Peace Activists" always seem to demonstrate here in America , where it's safe.

Why don't we see Peace Activist demonstrating in Iran , Syria , Iraq , Sudan , North Korea , in the places that really need peace activism the most? I'll tell you why! They would be killed!

The liberal mentality is supposed to favor human rights, civil rights, democracy, multiculturalism, diversity, etc . , but if the Jihad wins, wherever the Jihad wins, it is the end of civil rights, human rights, democracy, multiculturalism, diversity, etc.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I don't disagree Hanta-- but the one thing your author left out is that years ago Osama Bin Laden said that he and radical Islam knew they could never defeat the US militarily- but that they could bring them down financially!!!!!
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
Yes, you do disagree, you miserable old coot. With every post you make and every breath you take. If you don't want that new grandchild to be speaking Arabic in her lifetime, you need to change your philosophies PDQ!
 

Hanta Yo

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Nice post, Hanta.

Thanks, Sandhusker. I'm glad we do agree on political ideologies....I have to give loomixguy the credit, though. He emailed it to me and I just couldn't resist :D :D :D :D
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
loomixguy said:
Yes, you do disagree, you miserable old coot. With every post you make and every breath you take. If you don't want that new grandchild to be speaking Arabic in her lifetime, you need to change your philosophies PDQ!

What I disagree with is the Idiot that has been trying to micromanage this War on Terrorism--his misguided directions--muddled State Department/Defense Department battle and micromanaging- and his inability to solve the infighting between his own people and Agencies that have led to one mistaken made decision after another- as well as the squandering of Billions of US taxpayer dollars ...

Gets pretty bad when you have to go to kicking out Generals and Admirals until you can get down to a Junior "yes man" so you can get one to agree with you...Or when the Department of Defense won't talk to- or even let the National Security Advisor in the Pentagon building-- or state Department hired mercenaries are given tactical control of US troops.... :shock:

His arrogance and inability to be open with the people- and especially with Congress that has Constitutional oversight duties- which then caught him up in falsehood after falsehood-- has even got the Republicans in the Congressional hearings on the Secrets Act saying it needs to be changed to prevent another end run by a "wanna be King" President....
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
loomixguy said:
Yes, you do disagree, you miserable old coot. With every post you make and every breath you take. If you don't want that new grandchild to be speaking Arabic in her lifetime, you need to change your philosophies PDQ!

What I disagree with is the Idiot that has been trying to micromanage this War on Terrorism--his misguided directions--muddled State Department/Defense Department battle and micromanaging- and his inability to solve the infighting between his own people and Agencies that have led to one mistaken made decision after another- as well as the squandering of Billions of US taxpayer dollars ...

Gets pretty bad when you have to go to kicking out Generals and Admirals until you can get down to a Junior "yes man" so you can get one to agree with you...Or when the Department of Defense won't talk to- or even let the National Security Advisor in the Pentagon building-- or state Department hired mercenaries are given tactical control of US troops.... :shock:

His arrogance and inability to be open with the people- and especially with Congress that has Constitutional oversight duties- which then caught him up in falsehood after falsehood-- has even got the Republicans in the Congressional hearings on the Secrets Act saying it needs to be changed to prevent another end run by a "wanna be King" President....


You got references to substantiate these claims, or is this just the opinion of a bitter old man? You should be a "guest consultant" on any MSM political show.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
loomixguy said:
Oldtimer said:
loomixguy said:
Yes, you do disagree, you miserable old coot. With every post you make and every breath you take. If you don't want that new grandchild to be speaking Arabic in her lifetime, you need to change your philosophies PDQ!

What I disagree with is the Idiot that has been trying to micromanage this War on Terrorism--his misguided directions--muddled State Department/Defense Department battle and micromanaging- and his inability to solve the infighting between his own people and Agencies that have led to one mistaken made decision after another- as well as the squandering of Billions of US taxpayer dollars ...

Gets pretty bad when you have to go to kicking out Generals and Admirals until you can get down to a Junior "yes man" so you can get one to agree with you...Or when the Department of Defense won't talk to- or even let the National Security Advisor in the Pentagon building-- or state Department hired mercenaries are given tactical control of US troops.... :shock:

His arrogance and inability to be open with the people- and especially with Congress that has Constitutional oversight duties- which then caught him up in falsehood after falsehood-- has even got the Republicans in the Congressional hearings on the Secrets Act saying it needs to be changed to prevent another end run by a "wanna be King" President....


You got references to substantiate these claims, or is this just the opinion of a bitter old man? You should be a "guest consultant" on any MSM political show.

Most are all in the Congressional Records- taken under oath as sworn testimony....The Secrets Acts hearings are still ongoing I think...I watched one session last week on C-SPAN...
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
loomixguy said:
Oldtimer said:
loomixguy said:
Yes, you do disagree, you miserable old coot. With every post you make and every breath you take. If you don't want that new grandchild to be speaking Arabic in her lifetime, you need to change your philosophies PDQ!

What I disagree with is the Idiot that has been trying to micromanage this War on Terrorism--his misguided directions--muddled State Department/Defense Department battle and micromanaging- and his inability to solve the infighting between his own people and Agencies that have led to one mistaken made decision after another- as well as the squandering of Billions of US taxpayer dollars ...

Gets pretty bad when you have to go to kicking out Generals and Admirals until you can get down to a Junior "yes man" so you can get one to agree with you...Or when the Department of Defense won't talk to- or even let the National Security Advisor in the Pentagon building-- or state Department hired mercenaries are given tactical control of US troops.... :shock:

His arrogance and inability to be open with the people- and especially with Congress that has Constitutional oversight duties- which then caught him up in falsehood after falsehood-- has even got the Republicans in the Congressional hearings on the Secrets Act saying it needs to be changed to prevent another end run by a "wanna be King" President....


You got references to substantiate these claims, or is this just the opinion of a bitter old man? You should be a "guest consultant" on any MSM political show.

You have to admit, Loomix, W dropped the ball after the military part of the deal was over. He expected crowds of Iraqis waving US flags and kissing the feet of their libertors. He thought they would actually know how Democracy worked and would take off an run with their new freedom and it would just be daisys and daffodils with Sunni's and Shiites joining arms to sing Kumbaya. He had no real plan for the peace, much less any contingent plans, because he didn't think he would need one. He should of realized this was a whole different part of the world that would bring a whole different set of circumstances. The problem is that he didn't, even after it was obvious to everybody except him and Rumsfeld.
 

Texan

Well-known member
Hanta Yo said:
Sandhusker said:
Nice post, Hanta.

Thanks, Sandhusker. I'm glad we do agree on political ideologies....
Hmmm....y'all are starting to sound a bit cozy. Mrs. Husker and sw might need to keep an eye on this situation. I'd hate to see you two trying to slip off to the R-CALF and NCBA conventions together. :lol:
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
loomixguy said:
Oldtimer said:
What I disagree with is the Idiot that has been trying to micromanage this War on Terrorism--his misguided directions--muddled State Department/Defense Department battle and micromanaging- and his inability to solve the infighting between his own people and Agencies that have led to one mistaken made decision after another- as well as the squandering of Billions of US taxpayer dollars ...

Gets pretty bad when you have to go to kicking out Generals and Admirals until you can get down to a Junior "yes man" so you can get one to agree with you...Or when the Department of Defense won't talk to- or even let the National Security Advisor in the Pentagon building-- or state Department hired mercenaries are given tactical control of US troops.... :shock:

His arrogance and inability to be open with the people- and especially with Congress that has Constitutional oversight duties- which then caught him up in falsehood after falsehood-- has even got the Republicans in the Congressional hearings on the Secrets Act saying it needs to be changed to prevent another end run by a "wanna be King" President....


You got references to substantiate these claims, or is this just the opinion of a bitter old man? You should be a "guest consultant" on any MSM political show.

Most are all in the Congressional Records- taken under oath as sworn testimony....The Secrets Acts hearings are still ongoing I think...I watched one session last week on C-SPAN...

You need to remember Oldwhiner has set on on secret meetings with the fbi/cia when he was sherriff in a one hores county in Montana!!
They sought his opinion on how to handle the whole world situation, in fact these meetings were so SECRET only he knew of them, and he was blindfolded -prior to getting on the Black chopper that picked him up on that deserted road outside of his 500000000 acre ranch inside the city limits of his mind. as he was dreaming of his next major supreme court ruling about the last coroner case he presided over in between his sessions of the Montana legislative sessions that he attended every session every vote!
 

nonothing

Well-known member
hopalong said:
Oldtimer said:
loomixguy said:
You got references to substantiate these claims, or is this just the opinion of a bitter old man? You should be a "guest consultant" on any MSM political show.

Most are all in the Congressional Records- taken under oath as sworn testimony....The Secrets Acts hearings are still ongoing I think...I watched one session last week on C-SPAN...

You need to remember Oldwhiner has set on on secret meetings with the fbi/cia when he was sherriff in a one hores county in Montana!!
They sought his opinion on how to handle the whole world situation, in fact these meetings were so SECRET only he knew of them, and he was blindfolded -prior to getting on the Black chopper that picked him up on that deserted road outside of his 500000000 acre ranch inside the city limits of his mind. as he was dreaming of his next major supreme court ruling about the last coroner case he presided over in between his sessions of the Montana legislative sessions that he attended every session every vote!

I thought you were "SICK OF" the name calling memanpa?
 

Hanta Yo

Well-known member
Texan said:
Hanta Yo said:
Sandhusker said:
Nice post, Hanta.

Thanks, Sandhusker. I'm glad we do agree on political ideologies....
Hmmm....y'all are starting to sound a bit cozy. Mrs. Husker and sw might need to keep an eye on this situation. I'd hate to see you two trying to slip off to the R-CALF and NCBA conventions together. :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: LOLOLOLOL However, it is nice to agree on something once in a while when we are so vehement in our arguments about rlaff. Of course, when I feel not so nice, I can always go back up to Bull sessions and pick a fight :wink: :wink: :wink:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Hanta Yo said:
Texan said:
Hanta Yo said:
Thanks, Sandhusker. I'm glad we do agree on political ideologies....
Hmmm....y'all are starting to sound a bit cozy. Mrs. Husker and sw might need to keep an eye on this situation. I'd hate to see you two trying to slip off to the R-CALF and NCBA conventions together. :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: LOLOLOLOL However, it is nice to agree on something once in a while when we are so vehement in our arguments about rlaff. Of course, when I feel not so nice, I can always go back up to Bull sessions and pick a fight :wink: :wink: :wink:

You get your packer-puckerer nonsense of the week from the Nonsensical Corporate Beef Assn. and you know where to find me!

Hanta isn't all bad, she just needs a little exposure to the truth every now and then! One of these days, she'll buy me a drink at the R-CALF convention and thank me straightening her out.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It was very interesting watching the Secrets Act Hearings- as many of those I saw testifying had been former White House Legal Counsels- 2 for Bush, 1 for Clinton, and 1 for Reagan-- and it was consensus amongst them that Bush's handling of the Secrets Act- and his refusal to inform and give the info to Congress- made it apparent the law needed changing to put more teeth behind Congress/public oversight....

As the fella that was Bush's counsel until 2005 testified--altho he did not believe it was any type of GW major conspiracy or that it during his time as counsel for GW did major harm to the nation-- the refusal to give Congress information about all the secret policy/orders and even the fact it existed (100's - many of which have not been revealed to Congress or the public)- was border line illegal- and brought up a huge grey area of the Administrations actual powers and the Constitutional division of powers between the administrative and legislative branches of government that border on the dangerous.....The former Reagan counsel went further and said that it bordered on autocracy- and badly damaged the Constitutional division of powers....

And as this Bush counsel brought up- and I think most of the Republicans are now recognizing- without some major changes to the law now- their failures to demand more oversight of GW- and GW's refusal to give Congress any info has now set "precedents" that future Presidents can use in commiting secret acts and in Congressional/Judicial hearings about oversight and secrecy that these future Presidents can use....

And I think many of those Republican lawmakers are now realizing that it is a good chance that that next President that has control over these powers they allowed GW to set "precedent" on - could easily be Hillary or Obama :shock:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Hanta Yo said:
One of these days, she'll buy me a drink at the R-CALF convention and thank me straightening her out.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLFat chance, buster.

I'll have either a bourbon on the rocks or a gin & tonic, depending on the weather. Heck, I'll even buy you a drink right back and we'll just laugh about your foolish misguided youth.
 

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