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Agman

Tommy wrote:
Thanks rancher and Mike for finding where Jan Lyons made the statement " Maybe we weren't listening". I know she is mj's hero. Also they dropped the phrase, North American Beef Industry.

I was at a NCBA meeting Tuesday night and the President elect, Mike John, said they have 26,000 members. That is what they had last year, didn't mj say they were gaining all the time?


Mike wrote:
MRJ might have some 'splaining to do. Bet she don't comment on Jan's statement.
Click to expand...

In my humble opinion, I don't think it would matter what Jan Lyons said, you two would say it was wrong. Here JL commented about something that happened before she was in office, and you guys are accusing her of wrongdoing.

If JL hadn't said it, you would say she should have. What say you?



.
 
In my humble opinion, I don't think it would matter what Jan Lyons said, you two would say it was wrong. Here JL commented about something that happened before she was in office, and you guys are accusing her of wrongdoing.

What do you mean before she was in office?

R-calf up to 13,000 and growing. NCBA stagnant.
 
Bull Burger said:
Here JL commented about something that happened before she was in office.....
Click to expand...

The comment "Maybe we weren't listening" referenced the past few years. Not that Jan said it in the past. Does that clarify it better?




.
Click to expand...

I personally don't give a damn what Jan says or who she says it to. MRJ questioned Tommy's comment and I backed him up that JL said it. OK? :lol:
You might question MRJ on what she said. She's the one who didn't believe it.
 
She was in office before she was president. Look up how many years she was at the top before she moved in. They don't just vote on presidents every year, they move up the ladder is the way I was explained the whole pony show. MRJ will straighten me out if I am wrong, they knew who the president was before the big meeting. Jan is no new comer to leadership in NCBA.
 
Tommy, rancher, and Mike, you zealots are actually humorous in what you say attempting to discredit NCBA and people involved in the organization!Mike, you fail mind reading! I was not saying that Jan Lyons never said that. I questioned the context, and it was quite different and less definite a statement than what Tommy said she said. I have seen that lady in action enough to realize she would be very polite to someone who had even a ridiculous complaint, so I wondered what was said before her comment.

Tommy misquoted Jan Lyons as saying "we weren't listening" when she actually said "Maybe we weren't listening". The word "maybe" does have meaning. Especially because Jan is ever polite, kind, and ready to accept 'blame', even where there really is none. Doubtless, that makes complainers feel better. Personally, I believe if they were more active in the organization and learned and understood the processes and the industry beyond their ranch gates, and beyond the propaganda by anti-NCBA people and groups they would appreciate organizations serving a broad base of cattlemens interests as does NCBA and dedicated, competent VOLUNTEER leaders like Jan Lyons.

The policy is set by the members and the leaders and staff carry it out. Therefore, when members changed the policy via requests to directors who made the changes via a phone conference prior to the annual meeting last month, officers and staff then were able to implement those changes which were ratified at the convention via a new Directive on Canadian Trade. Officers and staff continue to carry out that directive.

rancher, guess I was wrong in assuming everyone understood that many organizations use a structure where officer candidates work up through the seats in order to learn as much as possible and be well prepared when they are president. Nominations from the floor are possible. It seems logical to me, as well as quite common practice in many organizations, that officers, in order to become well known enough to have support of enough people to become officers, would have served the organization in committee work or some other capacity over years of time. BTW, it is no excuse, but absolute fact that I do have that tape, and I do not have the time to devote to finding it. My filing non-system is admittedly crappy. I'm desperately trying to get some re-arranging of rooms in my house accomplished so that we can begin to get some extensive home repair/remodeling projects started. You may not understand that, which does not make it any less true.

Nominating Committee report at the NCBA convention, Feb. 5, 2005:
Wythe Willey, coordinating chair of the Nominating Committee reported the Nominating Committee's recommendations of Jim McAdams as President Elect and Mide John as Vice President of NCBA. President Davis asked if there were any objections to electing Jim McAdams as President Elect and Mide John as Vice President by acclamation. Hearing no objections, President Davis declared Jim and Mike duly elected.

Becoming an officer of any segment of NCBA or CBB is not simple. There is a joint nominating committee. Candidates for office go through an extensive interview by that committee. That interview process required two days, basically from early morning to about 10PM. Any committee member could ask questions and make comment on the candidates, but when it is time to vote, ONLY NCBA committee members vote for officer candidates for that group, ONLY CBB committee members vote for officer candidates for that group, and ONLY Federation of State Beef Councils committee member members vote for officer candidates for that group.

Re. membership, Tommy, I do not know how many members there were last year, nor how many there are now, but I do know that people were recognized for new memberships sold in the past year, so obviously people still are joining NCBA.

And, Tommy, yes, I suppose it is accurate to say Jan Lyons is one of my "heroes"......as it would be fair to say that I have literally dozens and dozens of heroes........fine people who are honest, hardworking, intelligent, good people working to make a better world in whatever way they can.

Goodnight, have fun dreaming up more anti-NCBA tripe.

MRJ
 
mj...I was not saying that Jan Lyons never said that. I questioned the context, and it was quite different and less definite a statement than what Tommy said she said.
Quote..."Maybe we weren't listening," Lyons said at a forum attended by several hundred members during the group's national convention here last week. "Maybe we weren't responding to the membership. We're trying to change that.

Tommy...mj, you may be like Jan Lyons when she stated "We were'nt listening" when talking about membership views.

MJ please tell me how what I stated is quite different and less definite than what Jan Lyons did say?

mj...Re. membership, Tommy, I do not know how many members there were last year, nor how many there are now, but I do know that people were recognized for new memberships sold in the past year, so obviously people still are joining NCBA.

You seem to forget when called on something mj. I recall someone posting , HayMaker I think, that there was 26,000 members last year. If people were recognized for new memberships there must have been just as many drop their membership, because the number is still the same as it was.
 
mj...Re. membership, Tommy, I do not know how many members there were last year, nor how many there are now, but I do know that people were recognized for new memberships sold in the past year, so obviously people still are joining NCBA.

You seem to forget when called on something mj. I recall someone posting , HayMaker I think, that there was 26,000 members last year. If people were recognized for new memberships there must have been just as many drop their membership, because the number is still the same as it was.[/quote]

People are always recognized for recruitment every year, called the top hand club. This year we had one from our state that received the award. And in my personal view should not have received it. The reason; he is the membership chairman for the Minnesota State Cattlemen's ash'n. He's the guy that sends out all the state's membership materials. And here you have to join NCBA at the same time as the state org. The state got some new members and he got the credit because he filed them, bet they didn't mention they lost more than they gained.

Anyway, no big deal either way, but I think the Top Hand Club should be for members that truely do recruit new members. A state membership chairman getting the award and the prize(s) for new members joining, all his expensise paid for by members of the state org, seems like an unfair advantage to the member that's hoofing it and truely talking people into joining. :roll:
 
Tommy,

I don't believe Jan Lyons should have stated that NCBA wasn't listening just because R-CALF/LMA are better at getting their lies to the public than the NCBA is at getting the facts out.

NCBA bases their decisions on truth and fact, not on lies like R-CALF does.

NCBA should proudly stand on the truth rather than apologizing for the loss of membership due to R-CALF/LMA's lies that have reached more people.

If I was Jan Lyons I would stand firmly on the truth and expose R-CALF for the lying organization that they are rather than assuming that a loss in membership is related to NCBA "not listening".

Making a statement like that is just bloodying the waters for the NCBA blamer's feeding frenzy to take the focus off R-CALF's lies.


Others,

NCBA didn't change their basic position on opening the Canadian border as OT implied. NCBA's position was that the opening of the Canadian border should be conditional. That is not even close to R-CALF's narrow minded closing of the Canadian border "SUPPOSEDLY" based on food safelty concerns and lies about contaminated Canadian beef.

One doesn't have to look past "M"ID prohibited from "M"COOL to know how cheap R-CULT's food safety talk is.


R-CALF couldn't support their lie about contaminated Canadian beef on a bet. Yet their mindless clones support this statement as if it was factual WHILE POTENTIALLY JEOPRODIZING THE INTEGRITY OR OUR BEEF SUPPLY IN THE EVENT THAT BSE IS DISCOVERED HERE.

Agman was right on the money in suggesting that the judge's ruling basically states that UTM cattle are not safe for consumption and asking why Japan would want to take our cattle when we don't trust Canada's BUT WILL TAKE THE BEEF FROM THOSE CATTLE.

R-CALF's arguments are so inconsistant it's amazing that anyone who can think for themselves wouldn't see right through it.


Sandhusker,

On this thread, once again you offer nothing to this discussion beyond waving your R-CALF pom poms for anyone that supports your bias.


OT,

Want to try to take a shot at explaining the difference between "sound science" and "the best science available" as if that is a relevant issue?

Want to explain the relevance of "North American Cattle Industry" and any one of many other meaningless things that occupy your mind?

You want to debate NCBA vs R-CALF, bring it. I'll be your huckleberry!

I've caught you lying before so you already have that against you.



~SH~
 
Prarie dog you are on a roll today what cha drinking?These mindless followers you keep refering to,would that include the 62 senators that agrees with 14000 R calfers? would you have me believe you are smarter than these 62 senators?................good luck PS what ever your drinking today ,SAVE ME SOME.
 
I'll challenge anyone of those 62 senators to defend R-CALF's lie that Canadian beef from UTM Canadian cattle is unsafe.

ANY ONE OF THEM!!!



~SH~
 
SH...NCBA bases their decisions on truth and fact, not on lies like R-CALF does.

OK Scott, is it the truth and a fact that Canada is building packing plants in Canada and that they are not up to the same standards as ours? That is what Jay Truitt from the NCBA is saying.

What about the resolution from NCBA to not open the border to live cattle untill we have normalized trade with Japan, Korea, and Mexico?
If R-CALF had not went to court and the judge put a stay on the border opening, it would have opened up Monday. I do not believe we have normalized trade with Japan, Korea, and Mexico yet. So like Soapweed suggests, the NCBA maybe letting R-CALF take the hit on this.
 
Even though I'm a R-CALF member, I don't see the R-CALF - NCBA relationship as "us against them". I just see more eye-to-eye with R-CALF and don't think everything NCBA does or says is wrong. However, I am very disappointed with NCBA supporting the USDA's handling of the Creekstone request. Where is the truth and fact there?
 
T: "OK Scott, is it the truth and a fact that Canada is building packing plants in Canada and that they are not up to the same standards as ours? That is what Jay Truitt from the NCBA is saying."

From what standpoint Tommy? How can I possibly answer that without knowing exactly what "standards" Jay is referring to?


T: "What about the resolution from NCBA to not open the border to live cattle untill we have normalized trade with Japan, Korea, and Mexico?"

What about it???

NCBA wants USDA to do everything they can to resume normal trade when they open the border to Canada. Unlike R-CULT, they realize the value of our export markets.

I did not interpret that directive as NCBA not supporting trade UNTIL WE OPENED THOSE MARKETS because we are not going to accomplish that until we take the first step.

How the heck can we tell Japan that our UTM beef is safe, AFTER HAVING A POSITIVE BSE ANIMAL WITHIN OUR BOUNDARIES THAT PROMPTED JAPAN TO BAN OUR EXPORTS, when we are unwilling to accept Canadian UTM cattle???

You must think the Japanese are complete idiots???


T: "If R-CALF had not went to court and the judge put a stay on the border opening, it would have opened up Monday."

From a food safety standpoint, there is no reason the border shouldn't open. The bigger picture is why would Japan resume trade with us WHEN WE ARE TELLING THE WORLD THAT UTM CATTLE ARE UNSAFE DESPITE SRM REMOVAL, DESPITE INCREASED BSE SURVEILANCE, DESPITE THE RUMINANT FEED BAN?????


Tommy, you tell me how you can support R-CALF's lie about contaminated Canadian beef. YOU CAN'T!!!!

NOBODY CAN because it's a damn lie! Par for R-CULT's deceptive pathetic ways!
 
T: "What about the resolution from NCBA to not open the border to live cattle untill we have normalized trade with Japan, Korea, and Mexico?"

SH...What about it???

NCBA wants USDA to do everything they can to resume normal trade when they open the border to Canada. Unlike R-CULT, they realize the value of our export markets.

I did not interpret that directive as NCBA not supporting trade UNTIL WE OPENED THOSE MARKETS because we are not going to accomplish that until we take the first step.

How the heck can we tell Japan that our UTM beef is safe, AFTER HAVING A POSITIVE BSE ANIMAL WITHIN OUR BOUNDARIES THAT PROMPTED JAPAN TO BAN OUR EXPORTS, when we are unwilling to accept Canadian UTM cattle???

You must think the Japanese are complete idiots???

Quote...NCBA will to work to resolve a list of conditions before trade is resumed. These include:

11...The Administration must reach an agreement to re-establish beef and beef byproduct trade with Japan, South Korea and Mexico, and apply economic sanctions if necessary.

Scott keep reading that untill you get it. Before trade is resumed...The Administration MUST reach an agreement....

Do we have that agreement already Scott??
 
I do not agree with the NCBA directive that ties the opening of the Canadian border to our export markets because we cannot expect our export markets to take our beef if we are unwilling to take Canadian cattle.

We have to make the first move and honor our free trade agreement with Canada, not lie about the safety of their beef.

Nowhere did NCBA support keeping the border closed unconditionally as R-CALF did.

I disagree with two NCBA directives, that one and the one that prohibits the USDA grade stamp from imported product. That's stupid. How else do you mark that it has been inspected?????

Unlike most R-CALFers, I am not a "head nodder" to my chosen organization.


~SH~
 
I see that SH supports the NCBA and he has a right to but I also see him voicing his differing oppinion to what the NCBA is doing. But very few times have I seen you R-CALFer voicing anything but what the R-CALF word is, even if that means justifing out and out lies Tommy. Some have even defend them by saying what ever it takes to hurt the Canadians the lies are worth it,

Do you like defending the R-CALF lies that they are using to keep the border closed?

Do you not see that they are setting you up for a fall of a lifetime?

Will you still be out there fund raising and defending their statement when/if BSE is found?

What do you tell people about the safety of Canadian beef that is already living in the US that you can't find?

Did you forget and hope that everyone else will also forget about these animals?

What do you think that Japan thinks about your court case?

What do you think they think about what the US Senate did?

Do you honestly believe your actions will have no negitive effect on your exports?

Do you honestly believe that these lies are not going to come back on you when/if BSE is found in the US?


Do you honestly believe this last stupid statement Bullard made about the increase in slaughter capacity in Canada is not a result of the border issue?

Come on Tommy think for yourself and answer the questions using your brain. Can a person belong to an organization and not support every dumb comment that comes out of their leaders mouth? And at what point do you say the leaders have crossed the line with their lies and I can't defend or support them?
 
Is Canada Safe From Mad Cow Disease?
Alberta actually imported a live cow with Mad Cow disease back in 1993. The Canadian government raced to destroy the "Mad" cow - along with more than 400 other cattle from the same herd - but some cattle slipped through the cracks. A report by the European Union's Scientific Committee noted that "eleven imported cattle that were found to be carrying a risk of being infected [with BSE] entered the Canadian food or feed chain".(15) Furthermore, it was reported in the Globe and Mail that CFIA officials were sent "scrambling" to track down 20 cattle imported from Japan, which had recently been diagnosed with its first case of Mad Cow disease. Once again, Ottawa failed to track down all the animals. It was later realized that four of the suspect cattle had already been slaughtered and may have entered the Canadian food supply.(16)

In other words, cattle potentially carrying Mad Cow disease have already been processed into feed and fed to Canadian cattle. However, according to Dr. Claude Lavigne, an official from Canada's Food Inspection Agency (CFIA), Mad Cow disease is "a European Disease and that's about it."(17) Officials from the Geneva-based World Health Organisation (WHO) disagree. The WHO has concluded that Mad Cow disease is a "global disease" and "no country is immune."(18) In fact, Germany, France, Belgium and Italy had all pronounced they were "free" of Mad Cow disease. Mad Cow disease has now been documented in all those countries.(19)
 

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