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Agreeing with GW!

A

Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
iwannabeacowboy said:
May day! May day! May day!

the "Fuddy duddy", as her plane went down...


Little Joe-- I expect to be attacked- as its the pack mentality that makes small folks feel big...
BUT
The comedy is the speed these folks forget what their " Political Heros" preached and said :

President George Bush has repeated his belief all religions, “whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God – an assertion that caused outrage among evangelical leaders when he said it in November 2003.
-------------------------
“Well, first of all, I believe in an Almighty God, and I believe that all the world, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God. That’s what I believe. I believe that Islam is a great religion that preaches peace. And I believe people who murder the innocent to achieve political objectives aren’t religious people, whether they be a Christian who does that – we had a person blow up our – blow up a federal building in Oklahoma City who professed to be a Christian, but that’s not a Christian act to kill innocent people.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2007/10/43906/#LBsSwUocOWkJUeDH.99

And I had this belief long before GW murmered a word about it-- and as time goes by- and with archaeolgical finds tying the old myths, bible stories, and pagan stories of cultures that never could have had contact with each other together, I believe it more... We have one God- our Creator- from which hundreds of religions and multiple prophets sprang...
To an extent Gandhi taught the same...

So Faster Horses-- as the theological scholar and religious "expert" you portray yourself to be, does this mean GW and I have to go to Hell together :???:

Be as bad as when Mike gets to the Pearly Gates and finds that Saint Peter is a black man... :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=70286&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=24

That was my argument from day one-- until everyone wanted to spin it around to fit their argument...

Like I said in that 1st thread- its not my fault if you lack reading and comprehensive abilities...

Anyway- I enjoyed it... I never expected to change any of this packs minds- but hoped it might get some to look at things they haven't- and I think I succeeded in that...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
iwannabeacowboy said:
iwannabeacowboy said:
So if you believe in Jesus, what part of the Bible do you believe is false. And do you believe in the great flood involving Noah?

Surely you don't mind answering these easy questions?

You never answered mine...

Yes I believe in the great flood involving Noah... It is one of the stories that shows up in all the Abrahamic religions and in many myths and religions/cultures of the world including the ancients who lived in Borneo, Sri Lanka, New Guinea, the Mongols, Chinese, and American Indians (both North and South America, as well as the Aleuts and Eskimos....
The story varies some from culture/religion to religion- but is basically the same idea... The Islam version differs mainly in who were aboard the Ark..

I don't believe the Bible is false- just that there are numerous verses that contradict themselves and each other- and many of the interpretations by Theologians, Priests and Ministers vary greatly...
Which are right has to be interpreted/decided by each individual himself...

One of those differently interpreted is the Noah story- and what land area was covered... Some say it was the entire earth- others say it was just the Mesopotamian region where they suggest all population lived- and that does show geological/archaeological evidence of a huge flood...

When I was in Bible School 50+ years ago- our Methodist Minister (who was far from a liberal) justified us studying the theory of evolution in Biology and the Genesis story by interpreting that what God called "days" could have been much longer time periods like thousands of years ( something that shows up in Islam)...

Just like about every one of us has a differing view/interpretation on what the Constitution says or actually means- many also have differing interpretations/views of the Bible..
 

Mike

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
iwannabeacowboy said:
iwannabeacowboy said:
So if you believe in Jesus, what part of the Bible do you believe is false. And do you believe in the great flood involving Noah?

Surely you don't mind answering these easy questions?

You never answered mine...

Yes I believe in the great flood involving Noah... It is one of the stories that shows up in all the Abrahamic religions and in many myths and religions/cultures of the world including the ancients who lived in Borneo, Sri Lanka, New Guinea, the Mongols, Chinese, and American Indians (both North and South America, as well as the Aleuts and Eskimos....
The story varies some from culture/religion to religion- but is basically the same idea... The Islam version differs mainly in who were aboard the Ark..

I don't believe the Bible is false- just that there are numerous verses that contradict themselves and each other- and many of the interpretations by Theologians, Priests and Ministers vary greatly...
Which are right has to be interpreted/decided by each individual himself...

One of those differently interpreted is the Noah story- and what land area was covered... Some say it was the entire earth- others say it was just the Mesopotamian region where they suggest all population lived- and that does show geological/archaeological evidence of a huge flood...

When I was in Bible School 50+ years ago- our Methodist Minister (who was far from a liberal) justified us studying the theory of evolution in Biology and the Genesis story by interpreting that what God called "days" could have been much longer time periods like thousands of years ( something that shows up in Islam)...

Just like about every one of us has a differing view/interpretation on what the Constitution says or actually means- many also have differing interpretations/views of the Bible..

OT, I hate to tell you this, but a lot of folks have had these same questions since grade school. You're way too old to thinking about whether you believe in Christianity or not.

Your questions are not new. But the wiser folks weighed the evidence & set their beliefs long ago. :lol:

In short, you haven't pointed out anything that already hasn't been thought about a million times over.

Are you really as stupid as you seem? :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike said:
Oldtimer said:
iwannabeacowboy said:
Surely you don't mind answering these easy questions?

You never answered mine...

Yes I believe in the great flood involving Noah... It is one of the stories that shows up in all the Abrahamic religions and in many myths and religions/cultures of the world including the ancients who lived in Borneo, Sri Lanka, New Guinea, the Mongols, Chinese, and American Indians (both North and South America, as well as the Aleuts and Eskimos....
The story varies some from culture/religion to religion- but is basically the same idea... The Islam version differs mainly in who were aboard the Ark..

I don't believe the Bible is false- just that there are numerous verses that contradict themselves and each other- and many of the interpretations by Theologians, Priests and Ministers vary greatly...
Which are right has to be interpreted/decided by each individual himself...

One of those differently interpreted is the Noah story- and what land area was covered... Some say it was the entire earth- others say it was just the Mesopotamian region where they suggest all population lived- and that does show geological/archaeological evidence of a huge flood...

When I was in Bible School 50+ years ago- our Methodist Minister (who was far from a liberal) justified us studying the theory of evolution in Biology and the Genesis story by interpreting that what God called "days" could have been much longer time periods like thousands of years ( something that shows up in Islam)...

Just like about every one of us has a differing view/interpretation on what the Constitution says or actually means- many also have differing interpretations/views of the Bible..

OT, I hate to tell you this, but a lot of folks have had these same questions since grade school. You're way too old to thinking about whether you believe in Christianity or not.

Your questions are not new. But the wiser folks weighed the evidence & set their beliefs long ago. :lol:

In short, you haven't pointed out anything that already hasn't been thought about a million times over.

Are you really as stupid as you seem? :roll:

Oh I have too- and that is the reason that I now believe that we have one God- our Creator- from which hundreds of religions and multiple prophets sprang...

BUT- I think we should never stop learning and seeking new knowledge - and unlike you apparently :roll: I have not learned all that there is to learn...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Mike said:
Oldtimer said:
You never answered mine...

Yes I believe in the great flood involving Noah... It is one of the stories that shows up in all the Abrahamic religions and in many myths and religions/cultures of the world including the ancients who lived in Borneo, Sri Lanka, New Guinea, the Mongols, Chinese, and American Indians (both North and South America, as well as the Aleuts and Eskimos....
The story varies some from culture/religion to religion- but is basically the same idea... The Islam version differs mainly in who were aboard the Ark..

I don't believe the Bible is false- just that there are numerous verses that contradict themselves and each other- and many of the interpretations by Theologians, Priests and Ministers vary greatly...
Which are right has to be interpreted/decided by each individual himself...

One of those differently interpreted is the Noah story- and what land area was covered... Some say it was the entire earth- others say it was just the Mesopotamian region where they suggest all population lived- and that does show geological/archaeological evidence of a huge flood...

When I was in Bible School 50+ years ago- our Methodist Minister (who was far from a liberal) justified us studying the theory of evolution in Biology and the Genesis story by interpreting that what God called "days" could have been much longer time periods like thousands of years ( something that shows up in Islam)...

Just like about every one of us has a differing view/interpretation on what the Constitution says or actually means- many also have differing interpretations/views of the Bible..

OT, I hate to tell you this, but a lot of folks have had these same questions since grade school. You're way too old to thinking about whether you believe in Christianity or not.

Your questions are not new. But the wiser folks weighed the evidence & set their beliefs long ago. :lol:

In short, you haven't pointed out anything that already hasn't been thought about a million times over.

Are you really as stupid as you seem? :roll:

Oh I have too- and that is the reason that I now believe that we have one God- our Creator- from which hundreds of religions and multiple prophets sprang...

BUT- I think we should never stop learning and seeking new knowledge - and unlike you apparently :roll: I have not learned all that there is to learn...

Isn't Zeus a god?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
Mike said:
OT, I hate to tell you this, but a lot of folks have had these same questions since grade school. You're way too old to thinking about whether you believe in Christianity or not.

Your questions are not new. But the wiser folks weighed the evidence & set their beliefs long ago. :lol:

In short, you haven't pointed out anything that already hasn't been thought about a million times over.

Are you really as stupid as you seem? :roll:

Oh I have too- and that is the reason that I now believe that we have one God- our Creator- from which hundreds of religions and multiple prophets sprang...

BUT- I think we should never stop learning and seeking new knowledge - and unlike you apparently :roll: I have not learned all that there is to learn...

Isn't Zeus a god?

He is the father of the Gods if you believe the ancient Greek religion/myths... Zeus is mentioned in the Bible as a pagan God...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
Oh I have too- and that is the reason that I now believe that we have one God- our Creator- from which hundreds of religions and multiple prophets sprang...

BUT- I think we should never stop learning and seeking new knowledge - and unlike you apparently :roll: I have not learned all that there is to learn...

Isn't Zeus a god?

He is the father of the Gods if you believe the ancient Greek religion/myths... Zeus is mentioned in the Bible as a pagan God...


and you believe all gods are, one in the same...even the pagan ones, because you believe the Bible, like Bush, correct?
 

Mike

Well-known member
There are over a BILLION Hindus............. But they have too many Gods to count. Do they fit in OT's little religion world in Podunkville?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
Isn't Zeus a god?

He is the father of the Gods if you believe the ancient Greek religion/myths... Zeus is mentioned in the Bible as a pagan God...


and you believe all gods are the same...even the pagan ones, because you believe the Bible, correct?

I don't buy into the Greeks multi God's theory... You can... Like I told you - I believe in one God/Creator for all... Greek mythology has a different God for every different creation... Altho some of what ended up in some scriptures also shows up back in pagan beliefs and myths...
 

Mike

Well-known member
I'd like to wager that OT has never been in a Jewish Synagogue and here he is schooling everyone on religion and the God of Abraham? Anybody up for a small wager? :lol:
 

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
iwannabeacowboy said:
iwannabeacowboy said:
So if you believe in Jesus, what part of the Bible do you believe is false. And do you believe in the great flood involving Noah?

Surely you don't mind answering these easy questions?

You never answered mine...

Yes I believe in the great flood involving Noah... It is one of the stories that shows up in all the Abrahamic religions and in many myths and religions/cultures of the world including the ancients who lived in Borneo, Sri Lanka, New Guinea, the Mongols, Chinese, and American Indians (both North and South America, as well as the Aleuts and Eskimos....
The story varies some from culture/religion to religion- but is basically the same idea... The Islam version differs mainly in who were aboard the Ark..

I don't believe the Bible is false- just that there are numerous verses that contradict themselves and each other- and many of the interpretations by Theologians, Priests and Ministers vary greatly...
Which are right has to be interpreted/decided by each individual himself...

One of those differently interpreted is the Noah story- and what land area was covered... Some say it was the entire earth- others say it was just the Mesopotamian region where they suggest all population lived- and that does show geological/archaeological evidence of a huge flood...

When I was in Bible School 50+ years ago- our Methodist Minister (who was far from a liberal) justified us studying the theory of evolution in Biology and the Genesis story by interpreting that what God called "days" could have been much longer time periods like thousands of years ( something that shows up in Islam)...

Just like about every one of us has a differing view/interpretation on what the Constitution says or actually means- many also have differing interpretations/views of the Bible..

I don't recall what questions I haven't answered except about who do I think is God of all the various peoples in the world. I didn't answer this originally as I didn't want to interfere with your line of thought. If there are more that I miss, please refresh my memory.

As I've stated in a previous and drawn out post, I believe the Bible is true in its entirety and why I believe such. I'll be happy to cut and past it here if needed, but I think you read it.

I don't believe the Bible is false- just that there are numerous verses that contradict themselves and each other

This isn't possible. If something contradicts itself, then one statement or the other is false.

Con`tra`dict´
v. t. 1. To assert the contrary of; to oppose in words; to take issue with; to gainsay; to deny the truth of, as of a statement or a speaker; to impugn.
2. To be contrary to; to oppose; to resist.
No truth can contradict another truth.
v. i. 1. To oppose in words; to gainsay; to deny, or assert the contrary of, something.

So you have to believe that one part or the other is false. Or do you want to use another word?

I can appreciate not fulling understanding every verse. But this is not the same as them being contradictory to each other.

- and many of the interpretations by Theologians, Priests and Ministers vary greatly...

Doesn't mean that one is not right and one wrong on important tenants.

Which are right has to be interpreted/decided by each individual himself...

I agree, that is part of your duty while living is measuring the validity of all things important.


My take on it all is this, if the flood was legitimate and a critical point in history of man- a bottle neck of linage, then why would it not be in every culture? They all originated from this small group of survivors, right?

This only supports the validity of the story. This does not in turn support the validity of all religious beliefs held by these descendants.

If you believe in Adam and Eve, or the muslim version you refer to, all of man kind descended from them. God was the Creator of all- A single Creator. However, why did the Creator cause the great flood that brought judgment on all of mankind except Noah and his family? Because of their wickedness. He was only the God of Noah, not the world. That is the difference between Creator and God.


Why do I think islam and other religions have some similarities to Christianity and some differences? Because the doctrine of God is powerful and has been spread over the globe. It is not an easy doctrine, matter of fact, at times it calls for something completely opposite of what our natural tendency would be. People have a bad habit of accepting what they want and deleting what they don't, or adding what they want to their own preconceived religions. That is not hard to fathom.

What makes the difference is the concern.

If you've read the Bible, then you would know that there is warning of false teaching. If you take it as the truth, then you would have to agree that there is false teaching. If there is false teaching, then any and every belief/religion cannot be true. They are not all equal.

I was going to say that you have to believe that either there is no God, or that the Bible and quran are both wrong, for all religions to be the same- and the Creator to be the God of all. But that doesn't really work does it. As soon as you acknowledge that I have a belief that my religion (any one of them) states as its basic tenant that it is the only correct one, then your argument is impossible.

All religions/beliefs cannot be the same or equal. If I'm right, you are wrong. And you can never be right, because if I'm wrong in my belief, then you will be also- they are all equally correct or wrong in this case :lol:. Religious relativism is impossible.

So you are left with: There is no God for all religions/beliefs to be the same- i.e. they are all wrong. But then, if you consider atheism as a belief, and accepting that there is no God, then atheists would be correct and all other beliefs/religions would be wrong. So this cannot be true either. All religions/beliefs cannot be equal.

So you are actually left with, not all beliefs are equal, and some belief is true, but not every belief can be. This is true whether there is a God or not.

There is a correct belief, which one is it?

What it is not is religious relativism/new age thinking. That kind of muddy rationalization is not and cannot be true.
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Kind of comical- one of the first times in years that I agree with GW Bush- and I get attacked and called every blasphemous name in the book by some...


President George Bush has repeated his belief all religions, “whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God – an assertion that caused outrage among evangelical leaders when he said it in November 2003.
-------------------------
“Well, first of all, I believe in an Almighty God, and I believe that all the world, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God. That’s what I believe. I believe that Islam is a great religion that preaches peace. And I believe people who murder the innocent to achieve political objectives aren’t religious people, whether they be a Christian who does that – we had a person blow up our – blow up a federal building in Oklahoma City who professed to be a Christian, but that’s not a Christian act to kill innocent people.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2007/10/43906/#LBsSwUocOWkJUeDH.99

But nothing anyone has said- has changed my belief that we have but One God-One Creator- that created the heavens and earth, the oceans, and man- and from that first man developed the Negroid, Europeoid, and Mongoloid races and all sub-races that followed- and that all religions sprang up in differing parts of the world within those different sub-races and cultures...
But even tho they developed with somewhat differing beliefs-and follow different manmade scriptures/writings it is my belief they all pray to the same God/Creator...

So you folks can argue all you want on which's the bestest or worstest religion or your multi God theory and who has the bestest and worstest God- but I have seen (and doubt any exists) no proof to alter my belief....

OT it matters not one iota. There is but ONE GOD.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
TexasBred said:
Oldtimer said:
Kind of comical- one of the first times in years that I agree with GW Bush- and I get attacked and called every blasphemous name in the book by some...


President George Bush has repeated his belief all religions, “whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God – an assertion that caused outrage among evangelical leaders when he said it in November 2003.
-------------------------
“Well, first of all, I believe in an Almighty God, and I believe that all the world, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God. That’s what I believe. I believe that Islam is a great religion that preaches peace. And I believe people who murder the innocent to achieve political objectives aren’t religious people, whether they be a Christian who does that – we had a person blow up our – blow up a federal building in Oklahoma City who professed to be a Christian, but that’s not a Christian act to kill innocent people.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2007/10/43906/#LBsSwUocOWkJUeDH.99

But nothing anyone has said- has changed my belief that we have but One God-One Creator- that created the heavens and earth, the oceans, and man- and from that first man developed the Negroid, Europeoid, and Mongoloid races and all sub-races that followed- and that all religions sprang up in differing parts of the world within those different sub-races and cultures...
But even tho they developed with somewhat differing beliefs-and follow different manmade scriptures/writings it is my belief they all pray to the same God/Creator...

So you folks can argue all you want on which's the bestest or worstest religion or your multi God theory and who has the bestest and worstest God- but I have seen (and doubt any exists) no proof to alter my belief....

OT it matters not one iota. There is but ONE GOD.

Thank You- and that's all that either I or GW said that caused such a stir...
 

Mike

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
TexasBred said:
Oldtimer said:
Kind of comical- one of the first times in years that I agree with GW Bush- and I get attacked and called every blasphemous name in the book by some...




But nothing anyone has said- has changed my belief that we have but One God-One Creator- that created the heavens and earth, the oceans, and man- and from that first man developed the Negroid, Europeoid, and Mongoloid races and all sub-races that followed- and that all religions sprang up in differing parts of the world within those different sub-races and cultures...
But even tho they developed with somewhat differing beliefs-and follow different manmade scriptures/writings it is my belief they all pray to the same God/Creator...

So you folks can argue all you want on which's the bestest or worstest religion or your multi God theory and who has the bestest and worstest God- but I have seen (and doubt any exists) no proof to alter my belief....

OT it matters not one iota. There is but ONE GOD.

Thank You- and that's all that either I or GW said that caused such a stir...

Atheists do agree with you. In short, they believe that if a person believes there is only one God for all religions, then that person has no real God.

Teaming up with GW shows your thoughts aren't very original too. :wink:
 

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
TexasBred said:
Oldtimer said:
Kind of comical- one of the first times in years that I agree with GW Bush- and I get attacked and called every blasphemous name in the book by some...




But nothing anyone has said- has changed my belief that we have but One God-One Creator- that created the heavens and earth, the oceans, and man- and from that first man developed the Negroid, Europeoid, and Mongoloid races and all sub-races that followed- and that all religions sprang up in differing parts of the world within those different sub-races and cultures...
But even tho they developed with somewhat differing beliefs-and follow different manmade scriptures/writings it is my belief they all pray to the same God/Creator...

So you folks can argue all you want on which's the bestest or worstest religion or your multi God theory and who has the bestest and worstest God- but I have seen (and doubt any exists) no proof to alter my belief....

OT it matters not one iota. There is but ONE GOD.

Thank You- and that's all that either I or GW said that caused such a stir...


Re-read what TB wrote, he isn't agreeing with religious relativity. He is stating quite the opposite.

Religious relativism maintains that one religion can be true for one person or culture but not for another. No religion, therefore, is universally or exclusively true. Religious beliefs are simply an accident of birth: If a person grows up in America, chances are good that he might become a Christian; if in India, that he will be a Hindu; if in Saudi Arabia, that he will be a Muslim. If what one believes is the product of historical happenstance, the argument goes, no single religious belief can be universally or objectively true.

Moral relativism maintains that there are no moral absolutes, no objective ethical right and wrong. Moral values are true - or ''genuine'' - for some, but not for others. Since there are differing opinions of morality in the world, there is no reason to think that one is any more true and objectively binding than another. The implication is that statements of value (for example, ''adultery is morally wrong'') can be true for some but false for others. Something is wrong - sleeping with the boss, stealing paper clips, or leaving work early - only if you think or feel it is wrong.

Remember how we got here? You claim that it is okay for donks to lie, cheat and steal, but conservatives should be held to a different standard since they claim to have standards.

Then we moved on to proving that moral standard had to exist to create a legal standard.

Now we are down to, is the moral standard equal for all, or relative? We'll at least for one of us.

Since you are a proponent of moral and religious relativity, that actually makes you a supporter of the KKK, hate mongers everywhere, and extremists of all types. Congratulations! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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