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America's great outdoors initiative for the second time

redrobin

Well-known member
Old Timer this is a ranching or an anti-ranching initiative. It affects ranch people. Government encroachment of range land is overbearing and I don't see any let up in the near future.


This can't be good.

http://utvweekly.com/index.php/2010/06/montana-listening-sessions-alert-update/

http://www.menwithfoilhats.com/2010/05/federal-government-readies-to-seize-additional-10-million-acres-of-us-open-space/

------------------------

ITS ALSO VERY POLITICAL ON WHO IS SAYING WHAT ABOUT IT-AND WHO IS TELLING THE TRUTH-AND WHO IS FEARMONGERING.

IT BELONGS ON POLITCAL BULL- OR BS.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
redrobin-- the proposed Bittercreek Wilderness is 8 miles from my place- and I've been following the happenings since it was first proposed being put under a protective designation- which goes back 30 years...

Initially much of that effort to designate it prestine land came up when the National Guards/military wanted to purchase part of it for a tank training area- and was brought up by the ranching groups that opposed the NG training ground....

Since then- mention has been brought up time and time again by the Greenies- but nothing done..

Here is a report on your June 2 meeting:

http://www.northernag.net/AGNews/tabid/171/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/426/Great-Outdoors-Initiative-Debuts-in-Montana.aspx


If you've been following my posts on here- back and forth with some of the others from this part of Montana- along with the newspaper articles you would know that this land is already in the process of being taken over-- by Greenie-Weenies, Prairie Dog and Buffalo groups....They are coming in and putting up large sums of money (offers folks can't refuse) and in the good old free market way- buying it up...So far they have also let ranchers and previous landowners lease back the lands- but I understand the long range goal is one major buffalo commons with no cattle on it....

Right now- I fear them more than I do the government control over it....The grazing Assn that starts a few miles south of my place and runs to the Missouri River (and into the CMR Game Range) was made an offer this year- but turned it down...

But just like several of the individuals in the Assn I have talked to in private have said- when they come back with a larger offer (more than can ever be made off the land by ranching ) it will be hard to refuse- especially since many of those in the association are 60 years old or older- and the initial approach was made by some ranchers wanting out....

Once these folks get their hands on it- we have no say in what they do with it....Government might be the lessor of two evils :???:
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Just for info-- the Bitter Creek area was studied for years- and the Plan was completed in 2000- and it has been designated an Area of Critical Environmental Concern (ACEC) ever since- awaiting on action from Congress to either release Bitter Creek from wilderness study or designate it wilderness....

Bitter Creek and Mountain Plover
Areas of Critical Environmental Concern
Plan Amendment and Environmental Assessment

Finding of No Significant Impact / Decision Record
A Plan Amendment and Environmental Assessment (EA) has been completed addressing
designation of two Areas of Critical Environmental Concern (ACECs) in Valley County,
Montana, administered by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) Malta Field Office, Glasgow
Field Station. The Final Plan Amendment / EA # MT-096-99-04 was completed in December
2000.
This document was provided to all interested and affected parties; a copy is available for
review at the Glasgow Field Station and at www.mt.blm.gov/lands/ACEC.pdf.
DECISION:
Based on the information and analysis of the Plan AmendmentEA and comments from the
public, it is my decision to adopt Alternative B: designation of the two ACECs, with
management according to the prescriptions described below. (Please note that the Final Plan
Amendment/EA did not include management prescription for Bitter Creek, deferring that until
after Congress releases itfrom Wilderness Study Area (WSA) status. Due to concerns raised in
the protest resolution process, management prescriptions for Bitter Creek are now included.)
Bitter Creek
Bitter Creek will be designated an ACEC (59,600 public acres). The boundary will include the
three segments of the Bitter Creek WSA. Until Congress acts to either release Bitter Creek from
wilderness study or designate it wilderness, the area will continue to be managed under the
Interim Management Policy for WSAs (the IMP).
The threefold goal for management of the Bitter Creek ACEC is: (1)maintain the natural
grassland vegetation; (2) limit visual change to the undisturbed scenic landscape; and (3) ,
encourage understanding of, and appreciation for, the prairie grassland ecosystem.
If Congress adopts the BLM’s recommendation and releases Bitter Creek from WSA status, the
special management as an ACEC will comprise the following management prescriptions. These
management prescriptions are similar to, but not significantly different from, the restrictions in
the revised edition of the IMP existing in 1998, except where resource values warrant a different
type or level of restriction. A more detailed plan for management of the ACEC would be
initiated within 2 years following WSA release. This ACEC management plan would be
developed through a public process. If at that time decisions are proposed that would
significantly alter the resource allocations outlined in the management prescriptions below, a
plan amendment would likely be undertaken.

Bitter Creek Management Prescriptions
No oil and gas or mineral leasing will be allowed. There are no existing leases.
No new roads will be allowed.
Any surface disturbing activities will be reclaimed with native species and contoured to match the natural terrain.
No above ground rights-of-way will be allowed.
Off-highway travel will be limited yearlong to designated roads and trails, as shown in Figure 2 page 15 of the Final Plan Amendment / EA. Travel off these designated routes will be allowed for permitted uses, primarily livestock permittees for maintenance of fences and movement of livestock.
Motorized wheeled cross-country travel to a campsite will be permissible within 300 feet of roads or trails. Site selection must be completed by non-motorized means and accessed by the most direct route causing the least damage.
Cross-country wheeled vehicle travel would be permissible in emergency operations, including search and rescue and fire suppression. No blading or plowing of fire lines would be allowed.
Current management of livestock grazing will continue with any changes or revisions based on rangeland health standards and the goals of maintaining the natural, undisturbed grassland.
No mechanical rangeland treatments will be allowed. Prescribed fire may be used to maintain the grassland. Existing fences and reservoirs will be maintained. New reservoirs or fences will be considered only if they are necessary to meet rangeland health standards, are reclaimed with native species and designed to minimize visual change. To maintain the native grassland, noxious weed control will continue to focus on aerial chemical application and biological methods. Follow-up ground application could be done if needed. The use of insecticides will not be allowed.
The BLM will promote research by universities and other governmental agencies to further understanding of the grassland ecosystem and associated wildlife.
The BLM will provide interpretive information via the BLM website, pamphlets, signing, etc., to aid understanding and appreciation of the native plants, animals, geology and other features of the ACEC. The watchable wildlife tour route will be continued and maintained for 4x4 travel.
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/mt/blm_programs/planning/jvp_rmp/bittercreek.Par.66473.File.dat/bittercreekDR.pdf
 

redrobin

Well-known member
When someone besides the government buys it, there's a chance it'll be for sale again some day. The government keeps it. Other entities pay tax on the real estate, the government doesn't. When the timber is cut, the money doesn't go to the people, it goes to the government, etc. It's not good to me to have the government buying real estate, especially when they are completely and utterly broke. They should be in the business of selling land considering their fiscal position, not buying it.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
redrobin said:
When someone besides the government buys it, there's a chance it'll be for sale again some day. The government keeps it. Other entities pay tax on the real estate, the government doesn't. When the timber is cut, the money doesn't go to the people, it goes to the government, etc. It's not good to me to have the government buying real estate, especially when they are completely and utterly broke. They should be in the business of selling land considering their fiscal position, not buying it.

Yep-- I agree on a lot of what you say...As far as this Bitter Creek area I think all (or most) of it already is owned by the government- the reason BLM controls it now...
100 Years back some of the area around it was homesteaded-but it is an unfriendly part of the country- and the 20's and 30's did them in and the land went back to the government... I grew up knowing it as the "Badlands"...
 

Horseless

Well-known member
OT, as I am sure you know, they are talking about a bigger area than just the Bitter creek study area. My understanding, I have been told of an area from the Canadian Border (From Opheim to west of Loring, MT) south to the Missour River (also some south of river). Extending over to Fort Benton south of HWY 2.

Our whole place is in this area.

So any suggestions how to fight this thing?
A group of area people are trying to get a prelimary meeting together tonight. Not sure who is speaking. I think it is just an effort to get organized.
Seriously, we need some serious ideas how to fight this. American Prairie Foundation, Nature Concervancy, Fish & Game and the Dept of Interior (Obama) all in bed together. They have different ways about getting their agenda done.
It is an outright land grab and violation of property rights.
The consitition does not mean a thing anymore. (Obama's goal)
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Horseless said:
OT, as I am sure you know, they are talking about a bigger area than just the Bitter creek study area. My understanding, I have been told of an area from the Canadian Border (From Opheim to west of Loring, MT) south to the Missour River (also some south of river). Extending over to Fort Benton south of HWY 2.

Our whole place is in this area.

So any suggestions how to fight this thing?
A group of area people are trying to get a prelimary meeting together tonight. Not sure who is speaking. I think it is just an effort to get organized.
Seriously, we need some serious ideas how to fight this. American Prairie Foundation, Nature Concervancy, Fish & Game and the Dept of Interior (Obama) all in bed together. They have different ways about getting their agenda done.
It is an outright land grab and violation of property rights.
The consitition does not mean a thing anymore. (Obama's goal)

I think the main thing we have in our court now is our Senators and Congressman (altho I don't trust a word Baucus says- he does seem to have the Presidents ear)...Tester is much more credible- and seems to have the ear of the Blue Dog Dems...Rehberg is planning a run for Governor- so this might be his time to show if he can actually do anything.....Also we have a State legislative year- where some loud noise can come out of Helena....

Isn't much of that area in the proposal owned/controlled by Sterling Carroll in his multitude of ranch buy-ups? Where does he sit on all this I wonder?

I often wonder if you don't have differing entity's of the farm/ranch industry competing against each other for their individual best interests..... I know with the proposed buy out of the Grazing Assn- it was actually a couple of ranchers that first approached the Greenies Group-- knowing they can sell out to them for a much higher amount than any rancher can ever afford...

When Hinsdale livestock first came up for sale-before Sterling bought it- there was a group of locals trying to put together a grazing district, much on the line of Wittmeyer grazing Assn- and I was asked to join...But after seeing how the grazing allotments had been divided- and that most I would be getting would be in the Bitter Creek area- I backed out- altho they were only a few miles away from the home place...The whole deal fell thru- and the Bitter Creek lands were much of the reason...Too much handwriting on the wall for me to stick a bunch of bucks into....
 

Horseless

Well-known member
OT, as far as I can find out Sterling is on our side according to one guy who sold to him. I have never met the guy, but I wouldn't bet on him. The other guy that has been buying up land, Mike Kinney, I would doubt he is on our side. Even though they have bought a lot of land they are still just a small percentage of the whole area that is being proposed.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
U.S. Interior Secretary Tells Senator Jon Tester No Backroom Deals On National Monument For Eastern Montana

Wednesday, June 23rd 2010
WASHINGTON, D.C.) – U.S. Interior Secretary Ken Salazar today told Senator Jon Tester that there are no closed-door “backroom deals” to create national monuments in Montana.


During a hearing on Capitol Hill, Salazar said some people are “fanning the flames” of false rumors regarding proposed national monument designations in Montana. The false rumors were sparked by a recent Interior Department “brainstorming memo” that mentioned areas in Montana.


“There are all kinds of documents still flying around that seem to be reinventing the issue,” Tester told Salazar.


“Back in March, you were here before this Committee and you told me there are no plans for monument designation in Montana,” Tester added. “You have also responded to written requests with the same message: nothing would move forward without substantial public input. But this hasn’t stopped a few folks from continuing to believe there will be a national monument designation in Montana. So I guess the first question is: do you know something I don’t?”


“I think it is folks fanning the flames,” Salazar responded. “We hope that we move forward with a conservation agenda. But it involves listening to the people and it doesn’t involve the heavy hand of government coming in and imposing the monument authority.”


Tester pressed Salazar on assuring Montanans that there are no deals or “secret meetings in back rooms” on national monument plans. Salazar said he plans to issue a statement this week to clarify his Department’s conservation plans.


Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack and other leaders held a public listening session in Ovando on June 1 to gather local Montanans’ input on conservation ideas.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
There is now a Facebook page entitled Property rights and Bison that folks can join...

Its looking good- Horseless..
 

Horseless

Well-known member
OT, have only had the group on FB for less than a week and its starting to grow. There is just so much info. I wish there was a better way to post it for new comers to read without going thru all of it. It is shocking how much power, influence the World Wildlife Fund has. The more I read the more everything is connected. It is all tied into the United Nations Biodiversity treaty and wildlands project. Their time line to make all this happen may not be far off.
I haven't been on here in a while, just thought I better check in. To much to read and hay at the same time. If i find time I would like to post some links on here for those who don't facebook.
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Horseless said:
OT, have only had the group on FB for less than a week and its starting to grow. There is just so much info. I wish there was a better way to post it for new comers to read without going thru all of it. It is shocking how much power, influence the World Wildlife Fund has. The more I read the more everything is connected. It is all tied into the United Nations Biodiversity treaty and wildlands project. Their time line to make all this happen may not be far off.
I haven't been on here in a while, just thought I better check in. To much to read and hay at the same time. If i find time I would like to post some links on here for those who don't facebook.

That would be great, Even a link to the Facebook page. I would like to send it on.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Big Muddy rancher said:
Horseless said:
OT, have only had the group on FB for less than a week and its starting to grow. There is just so much info. I wish there was a better way to post it for new comers to read without going thru all of it. It is shocking how much power, influence the World Wildlife Fund has. The more I read the more everything is connected. It is all tied into the United Nations Biodiversity treaty and wildlands project. Their time line to make all this happen may not be far off.
I haven't been on here in a while, just thought I better check in. To much to read and hay at the same time. If i find time I would like to post some links on here for those who don't facebook.

That would be great, Even a link to the Facebook page. I would like to send it on.

Big Muddy-- just go to your Facebook page-- and type in "property rights and bison" in the search space- and it will take you right to it...
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Heres a map Horseless sent me of the proposed areas they would like to get...


BuffaloCommons.jpg
 
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Anonymous

Guest
MT FWP Could Soon Purchase 28,000 Acre Ranch
For more details, visit the FWP Website.

A public hearing on the purchase will be held Wednesday, July 14. It will be at the Deer Lodge Community Center starting at 7:00 pm.



The following is an article from the Associated Press:

Two state agencies are taking public comment on a Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks proposal to buy a nearly 28,000-acre ranch near Deer Lodge.

FWP has requested $16.5 million in restoration funds administered by the state Natural Resource Damage Program to purchase the Spotted Dog Ranch.

The ranch would become a state Wildlife Management Area and be managed for fish and wildlife habitat and seasonal public access.

The lands are home to the largest concentration of wintering elk in the Upper Clark Fork River basin and provide yearlong habitat for antelope, mule deer, white-tailed deer, elk, moose, black bear and other species. The land is bordered on two sides by national forest land. The ranch and intermingled school trust lands total about 38,000 acres.

"Spotted Dog provides a unique opportunity to permanently protect and manage a large, intact landscape between the Blackfoot and Clark Fork watersheds for a v ariety of fish and wildlife species," said Mack Long, FWP Region 2 supervisor. "The purchase would also ensure lasting public access to previously inaccessible lands."

The property is owned by the Rock Creek Cattle co.

The Natural Resource Damage Program said the project qualifies for funding by restoring or replacing resources injured by historic mining and smelting in the Upper Clark Fork basin. However, the project proposal would require an amendment of the NRDP's grant process to receive founding outside the regular NRDP grant cycle.

Gov. Brian Schweitzer said he supports the purchase of what he calls "extraordinary habitat for an array of species."

FWP is seeking comment on the draft environmental impact statement, while NRDP is asking for public comment on the proposal and an exception to the funding process.

NRDP comments must be received by Aug. 9 and can be sent to NRDP, P.O. Box 201425, Helena, MT 50602, or nrdp(at)mt.gov; or faxed to 4 06-444-0236.

FWP is taking comments through July 30 at spotteddog(at)mt.gov, or by mail to Region 2 FWP; Attn: Spotted Dog, 3201 Spurgin Road, Missoula, MT 59804.

A public hearing is planned July 14 in Deer Lodge.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
:shock:
I know that ranch and it's truly beautiful. Why is the FW&P
allowed to buy land away from producers? I know, they've been
doing that for a long, long time. It's disgraceful.

We were friends with the Rock Creek cowboys and spent so great times
there.

:mad: :mad: :mad: Too bad.
 

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