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And we wonder why jobs have moved to other countries

Traveler

Well-known member
TSR said:
Traveler said:
TSR said:
Now from the Journaltribune newspaper: The union members striked because of wage and benefit concessions hostess was imposing. John Jordan of the bakers union said something was fishy after they hired a liquidation specialist as CEO of hostess prior to the strike. Of course the judge said the company may pay 1.8 million in bonuses to the top exec.'s if they meet certain guidelines. Really :shock:
Just another viewpoint besides that of Faux news. Anyone interested feel free to read the story at Journaltribune.com

Since the meat of the article didn't sink in, here's another from a site you don't have a cute little name for.

http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/166130-paul-price/1301671-hostess-union-rules-were-harder-to-digest-than-twinkies

Hostess: Union Rules Were Harder To Digest Than Twinkies
Nov 21, 2012 6:05 PM
Union workers have now completed their mission. 18,500 jobs are gone forever.

The national labor bosses stood firm. Labor leaders are proud they stood up to those nasty 'suits' [see Entourage for definition] who refused to run a money-losing business simply to continue paying salaries and benefits.

Hostess posted a $341 million loss in 2011 on revenues of about $2.5 billion. Contributing to those 2011 losses:

$52 million in Workers' Comp Claims.

Dealing with 372 District Collective- Bargaining Contracts.

Administration of 80 seperate Health and Benefit Plans.

Funding and Tending to 40 Discreet Pension Plans.

$31 Million in year-over-year wage and befits increases for 2012 v 2011.


Unaccounted for in the above numbers were the outrageous union-imposed rules that made for a too-high-to-bear cost of sales:

No truck could carry both bread and snacks even when going to the same location.

Drivers were not permitted to load their own trucks.

Bringing products from back rooms to shelves required another set of union employees.

Multi-employer pension obligations made hostess liable for other, previously bankrupted, retirement plan contributions from employees that never worked for Hostess at all.

America has come to this. The only defense against insane union demands is the willingness to walk away and close shop.

With General Motors and Chrysler we found that even that remedy would not work.

What I am waiting for is to see some union actually pull together and buy a ruined company, and then run it with the same rules and obligations that they had forced upon it. If their business model is so damn good, then put their money where their mouth is. Of course it isn't posssible, because their parasitic demands are a recipe for destruction. Any of us running our own ranch, or any business for that matter, knows that we couldn't survive, much less thrive, under such weight.

In many instances what you would like to see doesn't have to happen because the "threat of unionization" forces some companies to pay a decent wage with decent benefits unlike for example, Walmart. Or would you like all workers to have to work for $8/hr. many partime and then have to be subsidized by the taxpayers because their pay is so low they qualify for gov't help??
Really? Without unions, all workers will be at $8? Valuable employees won't be rewarded......just gloom and doom? Well then, thank heavens a good number of companies have been ruined for everyone's benefit! And little things like......unfunded bloated pensions and legacy commitments........and auto bailouts with UAW being a huge benafactor, all massive burdens to the taxpayer, seem to slip your mind.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Traveler said:
TSR said:
Traveler said:
Since the meat of the article didn't sink in, here's another from a site you don't have a cute little name for.

http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/166130-paul-price/1301671-hostess-union-rules-were-harder-to-digest-than-twinkies



What I am waiting for is to see some union actually pull together and buy a ruined company, and then run it with the same rules and obligations that they had forced upon it. If their business model is so damn good, then put their money where their mouth is. Of course it isn't posssible, because their parasitic demands are a recipe for destruction. Any of us running our own ranch, or any business for that matter, knows that we couldn't survive, much less thrive, under such weight.

In many instances what you would like to see doesn't have to happen because the "threat of unionization" forces some companies to pay a decent wage with decent benefits unlike for example, Walmart. Or would you like all workers to have to work for $8/hr. many partime and then have to be subsidized by the taxpayers because their pay is so low they qualify for gov't help??
Really? Without unions, all workers will be at $8? Valuable employees won't be rewarded......just gloom and doom? Well then, thank heavens a good number of companies have been ruined for everyone's benefit! And little things like......unfunded bloated pensions and legacy commitments........and auto bailouts with UAW being a huge benafactor, all massive burdens to the taxpayer, seem to slip your mind.


It amazes me that these OWS types still harp on union membership, while protesting private companies, because their employees make too much.
 

TSR

Well-known member
Traveler said:
TSR said:
Traveler said:
Since the meat of the article didn't sink in, here's another from a site you don't have a cute little name for.

http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/166130-paul-price/1301671-hostess-union-rules-were-harder-to-digest-than-twinkies



What I am waiting for is to see some union actually pull together and buy a ruined company, and then run it with the same rules and obligations that they had forced upon it. If their business model is so damn good, then put their money where their mouth is. Of course it isn't posssible, because their parasitic demands are a recipe for destruction. Any of us running our own ranch, or any business for that matter, knows that we couldn't survive, much less thrive, under such weight.

In many instances what you would like to see doesn't have to happen because the "threat of unionization" forces some companies to pay a decent wage with decent benefits unlike for example, Walmart. Or would you like all workers to have to work for $8/hr. many partime and then have to be subsidized by the taxpayers because their pay is so low they qualify for gov't help??
Really? Without unions, all workers will be at $8? Valuable employees won't be rewarded......just gloom and doom? Well then, thank heavens a good number of companies have been ruined for everyone's benefit! And little things like......unfunded bloated pensions and legacy commitments........and auto bailouts with UAW being a huge benafactor, all massive burdens to the taxpayer, seem to slip your mind.[/quote

Your quote(not mine) "Without unions,all workers be at $8?"
One more time---I said many times the threat of unionization forces many companies to pay decent wages, benefits, understand? Yes, thank heaven for those companies. Walmart may never be unionized noone knows what the future holds.
Well it seems the majority of the public, not to mention many economists favored the bailout as evidenced by the election. Keep in mind union membership has decreased drastically over the past 20 yrs. just as has the middle class' wages.
Personally I had rather see blue collar workers bailed out than Wall Street Bankers.
 

George

Well-known member
I guess I see things a little differently!

I bought the territory of east central Indiana from Ameritech in 1996 and built out and owned and ran 7 cellular stores.

If you came in for an interview I stated right up front that you would receive the lowest wage allowed by law but I put in place a very good commission structure.

The people that I paid $300.00 or so per month on commission were the ones I could not get rid of quick enough. The ones that got a commission check of $2,000.00 per month or more were the ones I wanted as they were making me the most money.

After the third cellular buyout in 2003 ( Ameritech is no longer in business ) I closed the stores and let 21 valued full time and about as many part time employees go - - - We had been in business 7 years and several of the employees had been with me from the beginning almost all had 5 years or more.

If you are in business and the people are making you money you will encourage it as they are keeping you in business.

The rhetoric of people needing Unions is just propaganda the unions are spreading to justify their existence.

I feel in the 1940s and 1950s they were needed but they have outlived their usefulness!

If left alone the people of America can and will create good jobs and people will not need assistance for years on end unless they have a problem. In my family my older sister is legally blind and yet she runs a JoAnn’s Fabric ( has for about 40 years ) and has raised her children to be productive citizens. I was born with the lower left side of my face missing and was told I would never talk - - - fooled them - - - in the 1940s the normal treatment was to allow me to starve to death but I was an experiment and have thrived ( I will never look like Robert Redford but I don’t look like Frankenstein’s monster )

My brother was born deaf but went on to get a college degree in Computer Aided Drafting. My other 2 sisters were born normal and have thrived as well.

I worked for Western Electric prior to and after the USMC and the unions were in the main part the reason it no longer exist! It got to the place where we were told we were to productive and we had to slow down so W.E. would have to hire more people and the union could collect more dues. This worked for about 30 years till the house of cards collapsed! My wife still worked there when the shut down came and she has never gotten a job that paid as well since - - - most of the people there tried to keep the place open but the union demanded more and 9,000 people in central Indiana lost their jobs in 1985
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
I couldn't agree more, George.

Congratulations on what all you and your family have overcome as
great American citizens. To me, that's what America is/was all about:
the opportunity to overcome and excel, like yourself and your family
have done, which most likely would not happen in other countries!!

My dad was a union man all his working life. (I.O.O.E.-International Order
of Operating Engineers.) He was a heavy equipment operator and he stood
up for that union over and over. Lived in Wyoming which is a right-to-work
state, but he had a bumper sticker provided by the union that he put on
his vehicles that said, "Poverty lurks where there's Right-to-Work." (That
bumper sticker was misleading to say the least. :p )Anyway, he worked in Alaska for at least 15 years
and was the foreman on many jobs. When the union started sending him
workers that weren't very good, he finally expressed disgust. Up to then,
he had always maintained union workers were the best available.
He never said too much, but what he didn't say was deafening.
I think he finally figured it out...the union was more for themselves than for its members.

I have heard too many out-of-state hunters say they hated the union, but
felt they were stuck. They told some wild tales about things that went on--
like freezing in certain buildings and the union wouldn't do a thing about it.
Several of them got together and met with management and got the problem solved
WITHOUT union interference.

Anyhow, my dad and I have had some pretty heated arguments over the
years as you can imagine. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Traveler

Well-known member
George said:
I guess I see things a little differently!

I bought the territory of east central Indiana from Ameritech in 1996 and built out and owned and ran 7 cellular stores.

If you came in for an interview I stated right up front that you would receive the lowest wage allowed by law but I put in place a very good commission structure.

The people that I paid $300.00 or so per month on commission were the ones I could not get rid of quick enough. The ones that got a commission check of $2,000.00 per month or more were the ones I wanted as they were making me the most money.

After the third cellular buyout in 2003 ( Ameritech is no longer in business ) I closed the stores and let 21 valued full time and about as many part time employees go - - - We had been in business 7 years and several of the employees had been with me from the beginning almost all had 5 years or more.

If you are in business and the people are making you money you will encourage it as they are keeping you in business.

The rhetoric of people needing Unions is just propaganda the unions are spreading to justify their existence.

I feel in the 1940s and 1950s they were needed but they have outlived their usefulness!

If left alone the people of America can and will create good jobs and people will not need assistance for years on end unless they have a problem. In my family my older sister is legally blind and yet she runs a JoAnn’s Fabric ( has for about 40 years ) and has raised her children to be productive citizens. I was born with the lower left side of my face missing and was told I would never talk - - - fooled them - - - in the 1940s the normal treatment was to allow me to starve to death but I was an experiment and have thrived ( I will never look like Robert Redford but I don’t look like Frankenstein’s monster )

My brother was born deaf but went on to get a college degree in Computer Aided Drafting. My other 2 sisters were born normal and have thrived as well.

I worked for Western Electric prior to and after the USMC and the unions were in the main part the reason it no longer exist! It got to the place where we were told we were to productive and we had to slow down so W.E. would have to hire more people and the union could collect more dues. This worked for about 30 years till the house of cards collapsed! My wife still worked there when the shut down came and she has never gotten a job that paid as well since - - - most of the people there tried to keep the place open but the union demanded more and 9,000 people in central Indiana lost their jobs in 1985
Congratulations on your successes and the adversities you and your family overcame! There is such an obvious difference between people like you and those that are union crybabies that will never experience anything like you've accomplished! Thanks for the inspirational post.
 

TSR

Well-known member
Traveler said:
George said:
I guess I see things a little differently!

I bought the territory of east central Indiana from Ameritech in 1996 and built out and owned and ran 7 cellular stores.

If you came in for an interview I stated right up front that you would receive the lowest wage allowed by law but I put in place a very good commission structure.

The people that I paid $300.00 or so per month on commission were the ones I could not get rid of quick enough. The ones that got a commission check of $2,000.00 per month or more were the ones I wanted as they were making me the most money.

After the third cellular buyout in 2003 ( Ameritech is no longer in business ) I closed the stores and let 21 valued full time and about as many part time employees go - - - We had been in business 7 years and several of the employees had been with me from the beginning almost all had 5 years or more.

If you are in business and the people are making you money you will encourage it as they are keeping you in business.

The rhetoric of people needing Unions is just propaganda the unions are spreading to justify their existence.

I feel in the 1940s and 1950s they were needed but they have outlived their usefulness!

If left alone the people of America can and will create good jobs and people will not need assistance for years on end unless they have a problem. In my family my older sister is legally blind and yet she runs a JoAnn’s Fabric ( has for about 40 years ) and has raised her children to be productive citizens. I was born with the lower left side of my face missing and was told I would never talk - - - fooled them - - - in the 1940s the normal treatment was to allow me to starve to death but I was an experiment and have thrived ( I will never look like Robert Redford but I don’t look like Frankenstein’s monster )

My brother was born deaf but went on to get a college degree in Computer Aided Drafting. My other 2 sisters were born normal and have thrived as well.

I worked for Western Electric prior to and after the USMC and the unions were in the main part the reason it no longer exist! It got to the place where we were told we were to productive and we had to slow down so W.E. would have to hire more people and the union could collect more dues. This worked for about 30 years till the house of cards collapsed! My wife still worked there when the shut down came and she has never gotten a job that paid as well since - - - most of the people there tried to keep the place open but the union demanded more and 9,000 people in central Indiana lost their jobs in 1985
Congratulations on your successes and the adversities you and your family overcame! There is such an obvious difference between people like you and those that are union crybabies that will never experience anything like you've accomplished! Thanks for the inspirational post.



When did you make the purchase?? What was your collateral?

Your 2nd paragraph: Could everyone access the commission for performance??

Paragraph 3: These "good" employees were making $2000 a month commission? I too have worked on commission, what was their basic salary lets say especially if a conglomerate came in an undercut your prices??

Kudos to you and your family members. All yall did this without any gov't or family help. Yes or No???
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
TSR said:
Traveler said:
George said:
I guess I see things a little differently!

I bought the territory of east central Indiana from Ameritech in 1996 and built out and owned and ran 7 cellular stores.

If you came in for an interview I stated right up front that you would receive the lowest wage allowed by law but I put in place a very good commission structure.

The people that I paid $300.00 or so per month on commission were the ones I could not get rid of quick enough. The ones that got a commission check of $2,000.00 per month or more were the ones I wanted as they were making me the most money.

After the third cellular buyout in 2003 ( Ameritech is no longer in business ) I closed the stores and let 21 valued full time and about as many part time employees go - - - We had been in business 7 years and several of the employees had been with me from the beginning almost all had 5 years or more.

If you are in business and the people are making you money you will encourage it as they are keeping you in business.

The rhetoric of people needing Unions is just propaganda the unions are spreading to justify their existence.

I feel in the 1940s and 1950s they were needed but they have outlived their usefulness!

If left alone the people of America can and will create good jobs and people will not need assistance for years on end unless they have a problem. In my family my older sister is legally blind and yet she runs a JoAnn’s Fabric ( has for about 40 years ) and has raised her children to be productive citizens. I was born with the lower left side of my face missing and was told I would never talk - - - fooled them - - - in the 1940s the normal treatment was to allow me to starve to death but I was an experiment and have thrived ( I will never look like Robert Redford but I don’t look like Frankenstein’s monster )

My brother was born deaf but went on to get a college degree in Computer Aided Drafting. My other 2 sisters were born normal and have thrived as well.

I worked for Western Electric prior to and after the USMC and the unions were in the main part the reason it no longer exist! It got to the place where we were told we were to productive and we had to slow down so W.E. would have to hire more people and the union could collect more dues. This worked for about 30 years till the house of cards collapsed! My wife still worked there when the shut down came and she has never gotten a job that paid as well since - - - most of the people there tried to keep the place open but the union demanded more and 9,000 people in central Indiana lost their jobs in 1985
Congratulations on your successes and the adversities you and your family overcame! There is such an obvious difference between people like you and those that are union crybabies that will never experience anything like you've accomplished! Thanks for the inspirational post.



When did you make the purchase?? What was your collateral?

Your 2nd paragraph: Could everyone access the commission for performance??

Paragraph 3: These "good" employees were making $2000 a month commission? I too have worked on commission, what was their basic salary lets say especially if a conglomerate came in an undercut your prices??

Kudos to you and your family members. All yall did this without any gov't or family help. Yes or No???


Are you now making an argument for those that invest their own money and take the risk?

:roll:


A good salesman doesn't need a "base salary", if they are a good salesman, working on commish.


You were a salaried salesman, eh, TSR?

You're not doing a real good job of selling, at this point in time, that's for sure. Lost the "edge", since your layoff?
:lol:


Maybe you should go back to the union job, where you can't get laiid off, until the company goes broke, from paying union wages. competition is a beeotch, eh?

Eaten any Ho hos lately?
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
I've read here where you've been called a lot of names, hypo, but
I believe this is the first time you've been called Traveler.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :p
 

TSR

Well-known member
I can't wait til we all have a big get together out west so we can get to know each other up close. Seriously, I missed the first. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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