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And we wonder why jobs have moved to other countries

Traveler

Well-known member
TSR said:
Are you and Traveler one and the same????
No. I'm complimented by your mistake, but there are actually many, many of us out here that have strong feelings against legalized extortion.
 

hopalong

Well-known member
:clap: :clap:
Well put Traveler!!
Looks like TSR is not following in the footsteps of oldtimer who thinks every one who diagrees with him is one on here is one and the same person :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

George

Well-known member
"When did you make the purchase?? What was your collateral?

Your 2nd paragraph: Could everyone access the commission for performance??

Paragraph 3: These "good" employees were making $2000 a month commission? I too have worked on commission, what was their basic salary lets say especially if a conglomerate came in an undercut your prices??

Kudos to you and your family members. All yall did this without any gov't or family help. Yes or No???


I will try to answer the questions. I made the purchase in 1996 with $1,000.00 in hard earned money - - - I had a contract that I would build out one store and if I made good numbers I would get the right of first refusal on any others in the area Ameritech wanted. I opened in Sept 1996 with the first store that I staffed almost all by my self, I also did all the build out my self as I could not afford help. I took all the profits and reinvested in a second store in Nov that was open by Thanksgiving. I then took the profits from both stores and had a third open the first of Feb 1997 and a fourth open on my birthday ( 2nd May ) By my 1 year aniversary and kept going untill Ameritech sold out. I went thru 2 corporation sell outs before I sold out.

No loans from any body just good luck and hard work!
 

George

Well-known member
For pay I gave them $4.50 per hour and the commission structur was 1 thru 10 cell sold ( given away with contract ) got you $10.00 @ 11-20 got you $20.00 @ going back to the first 21 thru 30 got you $40.00 going back to the first and 30 and up per month got you $50.00 @ going back to the first so if you siold 40 per month ( 2 per working day ) there was a $2,000.00 commission check

Accessories and Dish Network were structured in like manner.
 

George

Well-known member
As far as my farms - - -the first one I bought on contract as I could not get a bank loan just coming out of the USMC ( 1972 ) - - - I had not held a job long enough - - - and I was working every minute of over time at Western Electric I could get and I also worked weekends for the local Sheriff's Dept and by working hard and long was able to pay the farm down enough that I took an early retirement from Western Electric in 1981 and bought another farm and continued from there.

Never got government assistance of any kind - - don't want them in my business. Worst thing I did that about brought me down was in the early 1980s I took out a production loan from Production Credit Assn. - - - a bunch of crooks that ended up bankrupting about 75% of the farmers around here - - - lucky for me I had opened a gravel pit on the first farm I bought and was able to weather the storm!
 

hopalong

Well-known member
did you ever feel the need to unionize???? Did your employees>>

Bet not, when you want to work for a living there is no need to bring in a union

IMHO unions are out dated and are doing more harm to this country than anything else with the exception of obama and his cohorts
 

George

Well-known member
After working at Western Electric for 15 and 2 months ( counting USMC time) years under a union I would have closed the doors rather than have one. But most of my employees felt they were getting a very fair deal and the ones who did not like the way things worked were not slaves and could leave at any time.

10% of the "profit" of the stores ( not the gross ) went into a Christmas fund that was shared by all employees.

If you were not late and did not leave early from a scheduled shift for a week you earned a point. If you made it for a month you earned 2 extra points so if you were on time and did not leave early for a 4 week month you got 6 points. All points were added in October and the first of November a bonus was paid according to the points you had. Thus the employees knew if someone was dead weight the profit would go down. Every one helped and encouraged the rest ( with a few exceptions ) so the dollars at the end were as high as possible for them to split. As such dead wood would be gone quickly!

Several of my employees had 72 points every year! If they were late just one time they lost 3 points ( one for the week and 2 for the month ) and often these points were worth $25 to $30 each. As such everyone had charge of their own Christmas bonus. When you think that coming in late could cost you $90 at the end of the year you will get up early enough so that you can get on the company computer and email the main store on time.

I did not contribute to Insurance but I had it available at group rates - - - many of the people I had working for me had spouses with insurance and as such did not need it but the rest were able to have it taken from their checks.

The commissions were changed when new products were brought on line and the store managers were always involved in how they were paid. I had a sliding scale as I wanted ambitious people and I had great training so my people knew their stuff!

My stores won every award Ameritech had then we became “SouthWest Bell” and won many awards again then we were taken over by “AT&T Wireless” and won all the awards again but I went a full year with no pay from them ( there were only 6 dealers in Indiana) I was the last dealer to close the doors - - - I kept believing they would pay.

They sold out and the corporate people got huge bonuses but they never paid the dealers in Indiana! We ( all of the combined dealers from Indiana ) tried to sue but Indiana has a law that all winnings on a suit of that type go into the Indiana general fund and as such we could not get a law firm to take our case! Every dealer in all other states were paid - - - AT&T legal knew the Indiana law and took full advantage of it!
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
George said:
"When did you make the purchase?? What was your collateral?

Your 2nd paragraph: Could everyone access the commission for performance??

Paragraph 3: These "good" employees were making $2000 a month commission? I too have worked on commission, what was their basic salary lets say especially if a conglomerate came in an undercut your prices??

Kudos to you and your family members. All yall did this without any gov't or family help. Yes or No???


I will try to answer the questions. I made the purchase in 1996 with $1,000.00 in hard earned money - - - I had a contract that I would build out one store and if I made good numbers I would get the right of first refusal on any others in the area Ameritech wanted. I opened in Sept 1996 with the first store that I staffed almost all by my self, I also did all the build out my self as I could not afford help. I took all the profits and reinvested in a second store in Nov that was open by Thanksgiving. I then took the profits from both stores and had a third open the first of Feb 1997 and a fourth open on my birthday ( 2nd May ) By my 1 year aniversary and kept going untill Ameritech sold out. I went thru 2 corporation sell outs before I sold out.

No loans from any body just good luck and hard work!

George, you are to be commended. You are a self-made man. :tiphat:

Now, how do you think your business life would play out under the
regulations that Obama has set up? Not to worry about the details,
just in general, how do you feel Obama has changed things. (If you
don't mind my asking.)
 

George

Well-known member
I am scared to death

I have been building a shooting range for 3 years that I could have built in 6 months but with the current regime I am only building what will pay quickly as I’m not sure I will be allowed to have a range next week.

Obama is trying to get the UN to ban our firearms so he can say “ I didn’t do it”! Now look at the law passed in California - - - if it is not ruled un-constitutional they are going to go back 7 years and raise the state income tax on small business on the money they made 7 years ago. I can’t believe it will stand but with the current state of the people it might.

I was all ready to have everything open this spring but waited for the outcome and now I’m still waiting!

Many people ask why my family didn’t help me - - - My father was Asst Chief of Police for the Indianapolis dept when he was killed April 13th 1959 and I had to start supporting my siblings at age 9 - - - there was no insurance then and I took on 3 paper routes and Mom got a job at J.C. Penny and we made it - - - we were poor but we did not know it!

I feel there are many people out there ready to dig in and produce but they do not have the incentive right now. The more you work hard and try to get ahead the more you will be villainized by the Democrats - - - they want me to work hard so they can play Robin Hood and take from me and give to those not willing to work!

I’m 64 years old and these last 3 years are the first time in my life if I did not have Grandchildren I would have taken my money and work ethic and moved somewhere else!
 

TSR

Well-known member
Traveler said:
TSR said:
Are you and Traveler one and the same????
No. I'm complimented by your mistake, but there are actually many, many of us out here that have strong feelings against legalized extortion.


Like Walmart paying low wages so their employees are therefore eligible for foodstamps thus extorting money from the rest of us taxpayers??? I'm with you there, Traveler.
 

Mike

Well-known member
TSR said:
Traveler said:
TSR said:
Are you and Traveler one and the same????
No. I'm complimented by your mistake, but there are actually many, many of us out here that have strong feelings against legalized extortion.


Like Walmart paying low wages so their employees are therefore eligible for foodstamps thus extorting money from the rest of us taxpayers??? I'm with you there, Traveler.

Those Wal-Mart employees have the option of going to work somewhere else if they don't like those wages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll:
 

TSR

Well-known member
George said:
I guess I see things a little differently!

I bought the territory of east central Indiana from Ameritech in 1996 and built out and owned and ran 7 cellular stores.

If you came in for an interview I stated right up front that you would receive the lowest wage allowed by law but I put in place a very good commission structure.

The people that I paid $300.00 or so per month on commission were the ones I could not get rid of quick enough. The ones that got a commission check of $2,000.00 per month or more were the ones I wanted as they were making me the most money.

After the third cellular buyout in 2003 ( Ameritech is no longer in business ) I closed the stores and let 21 valued full time and about as many part time employees go - - - We had been in business 7 years and several of the employees had been with me from the beginning almost all had 5 years or more.

If you are in business and the people are making you money you will encourage it as they are keeping you in business.

The rhetoric of people needing Unions is just propaganda the unions are spreading to justify their existence.

I feel in the 1940s and 1950s they were needed but they have outlived their usefulness!

If left alone the people of America can and will create good jobs and people will not need assistance for years on end unless they have a problem. In my family my older sister is legally blind and yet she runs a JoAnn’s Fabric ( has for about 40 years ) and has raised her children to be productive citizens. I was born with the lower left side of my face missing and was told I would never talk - - - fooled them - - - in the 1940s the normal treatment was to allow me to starve to death but I was an experiment and have thrived ( I will never look like Robert Redford but I don’t look like Frankenstein’s monster )

My brother was born deaf but went on to get a college degree in Computer Aided Drafting. My other 2 sisters were born normal and have thrived as well.

I worked for Western Electric prior to and after the USMC and the unions were in the main part the reason it no longer exist! It got to the place where we were told we were to productive and we had to slow down so W.E. would have to hire more people and the union could collect more dues. This worked for about 30 years till the house of cards collapsed! My wife still worked there when the shut down came and she has never gotten a job that paid as well since - - - most of the people there tried to keep the place open but the union demanded more and 9,000 people in central Indiana lost their jobs in 1985

George, I applaud your success! When you put in place a very good commission structure-- kudos to you. Those people working for minimum wage and making only $300 monthly commission,(while you had others making thousands) they will always be in the workplace for whatever reasons, some of which they have no control over.

In my post to Traveler-- unions aren't necessary if companies pay decent wages/benefits. Most factory workers are not in a marketing situation as your workers were. IMO a marketing company that doesn't have commission as one of its ways to make money is not much of a marketing company. I would say more do than don't.

With respect to the future of unions-- it will just depend on the size of the middle class. If it expands again -less unions. If it decreases, unions will again
increase. JMHO
 

okfarmer

Well-known member
tsr, where is their skin in the game. When it fails, is their credit affected or will they lose their house? If some wants to save and take a chance, they get the rewards. Otherwise you get paid a wage or commission. Y
Here is the question, are you willing to work for free to build out the business? If it fails you get nothing. Or are you willing to loan George the money to hire it done? Again, if it fails you get nothing. Otherwise why would George take a chance to just make a wage?
 

George

Well-known member
I knew there was no safety net - - - but I had faith in myself ( USMC will bring that out ) and have never been afraid of hard work so I went for it.

That same stubborn streak is why I continued to work my butt off after the hostile take over by AT&T Wireless - - - the other two dealers that had as many stores as me quit the first month and all the others dropped out within a few months. Four of the 6 of us filed for bankruptcy and 3 of them ended up with divorces - - - but I had the safety net of the farms and the gravel pit.

I went thru my savings and took out a mortgage on my "paid off" farms to keep things going - - - My people all got paid but I've been paying the bank back since I closed the doors May 30th 2003. Almost back to debt free again and I will never put myself ( and family ) in such risk again!!!!

I just had never been lied to on such a large scale before and I had faith AT&T would do the right thing - - - I now feel it was a scam by the people at the top from the very start!

I have a stack of letters from AT&T Wireless to me telling of the growth pains they were working thru and promising me dates for payment with 8% interest - - - not even good for wiping my butt!
 

gearhead

Well-known member
Yea I hate at&t with a passion. They really suck. You get a contract from them and they violate their own contract. Never will have their service again.
 

TSR

Well-known member
George said:
I knew there was no safety net - - - but I had faith in myself ( USMC will bring that out ) and have never been afraid of hard work so I went for it.

That same stubborn streak is why I continued to work my butt off after the hostile take over by AT&T Wireless - - - the other two dealers that had as many stores as me quit the first month and all the others dropped out within a few months. Four of the 6 of us filed for bankruptcy and 3 of them ended up with divorces - - - but I had the safety net of the farms and the gravel pit.

I went thru my savings and took out a mortgage on my "paid off" farms to keep things going - - - My people all got paid but I've been paying the bank back since I closed the doors May 30th 2003. Almost back to debt free again and I will never put myself ( and family ) in such risk again!!!!

I just had never been lied to on such a large scale before and I had faith AT&T would do the right thing - - - I now feel it was a scam by the people at the top from the very start!

I have a stack of letters from AT&T Wireless to me telling of the growth pains they were working thru and promising me dates for payment with 8% interest - - - not even good for wiping my butt![/quote

Yeah I wouldn't take anything for my military stint especially Basic and AIT. George ,better be careful criticizing those corporations, especially here on PB ! :) Have a good one.
 

Traveler

Well-known member
TSR said:
Traveler said:
TSR said:
Are you and Traveler one and the same????
No. I'm complimented by your mistake, but there are actually many, many of us out here that have strong feelings against legalized extortion.


Like Walmart paying low wages so their employees are therefore eligible for foodstamps thus extorting money from the rest of us taxpayers??? I'm with you there, Traveler.
Or more like Hostess bankrupted by the practices listed on this thread, and 19,000 more on government assistance. Which is actually a mere pittance compared to what's already happened during the Obama Administration........speaking of bloated CEO's.
 

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