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Angus bull most responsible for breed improvement

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Brad S

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If 3bars improved the quarter horse breed more than any horse, what Angus bull has this distinction? (No wise crackers sayin some stein or chi bull either, ok.)
 

Andy

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I would say EXT. I know there are a lot of ppl that don't like him, but he was the original curve bender. He him self might not have had the greatest offspring but i think he help turn the breed toward more profitable cattle.
 

Northern Rancher

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PUKESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS-if you loook wayyyyyyyy back in the Angus pedigrees it was alot of old Canadian bred bulls that moved the cattle up from the pony types-EXT just moved nervous cattle all the way to insane. Here's my fearless prediction we will see a frame 4 win Denver within 5 years-I can already hear PB guys looking for the next fad to chase. Wayne Stevenson told me himself he had to go north to find the cattle he needed in the '70's-I think they have a fairly successful outfit lol.
 

Faster horses

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My answer would be Traveler 23-4. Until EXT he was the most used bull in the Angus breed. If you look at his progeny they still excel in many traits. With the data we have know, turns out Traveler was a carcass bull along with a good maternal sire in a moderate frame. He lasted a long time. They quit using him at one point and pretty soon he was used heavily again.

There is no perfect bull, and his offspring did not have the best dispositions. However, they were nothing like EXT. IMHO
 

TSR

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I always hear people comment on the bad disposition of EXT but I have no such trouble with his offspring. My EXt daughters are NOT bad dispositioned cattle. I do try to ride or walk around my cattle everyday though. Someone in a post on another thread commented on the good disposition of Bushwacker. But just yesterday while putting in some Cidrs the only calf that tried to kick me was a Bushwacker daughter.
I would agree that 23-4, EXT both had a lot of impact on the angus breed. Right or wrong, all you have to do is look at the pedigrees of a lot of angus sires and see who is there.
 

badroute

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I agree with some others here the best all around bulls that put their mark on the industry would be 23-4 and EXT. Look for CA FUture Direction 5321 to be turnin some heads from here on out. I have a bunch of these calves on the ground and so far I am very impressed, but will know more later on.
 

Jason

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The Angus breed is so diverse you need to clarify the question Brad. A few years back 80% of all the cattle showed at Denver traced back to Great Northern (Blacklock McHenry) a Canadain bull. Another bull that changed the direction of the breed was Canadian Collossal (Camilla Chance) another Canadian bull.

Others have mentioned some more recent bulls, but they have really not affected the breed as much as the above mentioned.

PS Power Play influenced things for many years, he is the sire of Scotch Cap, and out of another Canadian bull, Early Sunset Emulous 60E.

Traveler 23-4 has been used heavily in many pedigrees so would class as an influential sire. The other bull that has been used via sons and grand sons was AAR New Trend. 315 and all the 036 cattle are from this line.

With EPD's and ultrasound data, exceptional individuals from many blood lines have been identified, making bulls less likely to be breed legends for many years as in the past. However those old bulls did breed true and pass on a lasting legacy to the breed.
 

Faster horses

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Jason, glad to have your comments here. I do have a question for you~there was a great herd of cattle in NW Montana a few years ago. They were Black Diamonds and came from Canada, as I understand it. Does that ring a bell with you and where would some be today?

A purebred breeder up there got into some real problems and he used this line of cattle to straighten things out. People up there referred to 'Black Diamond daughters' with reverence. We did use some bulls out of that line, and realized later how really good they were. Wish we had more!!!
 

Jason

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Faster horses said:
Jason, glad to have your comments here. I do have a question for you~there was a great herd of cattle in NW Montana a few years ago. They were Black Diamonds and came from Canada, as I understand it. Does that ring a bell with you and where would some be today?

A purebred breeder up there got into some real problems and he used this line of cattle to straighten things out. People up there referred to 'Black Diamond daughters' with reverence. We did use some bulls out of that line, and realized later how really good they were. Wish we had more!!!

There was a good cow that came from Alberta that had a diamond in her name, she was a show cow that worked. Never became a huge line but no doubt had some good points. I can't recall the exact name of the cow.

Most of the troubles with the big Angus cattle came from poor selection or no selection in traits other than frame size. I like a good frame, but the cattle need some thickness and defenitely some length of body.

The other day a well respected cattle buyer came out and looked at some steers I had, he missed their weight by 60 pounds per hd. These blacks fool many a buyer.

I sold 3 bulls this morning, one guy worked for Cargill for 8 years and is just getting into cattle. Its interesting to hear from the other segments of the industry while in the bull pen. I am still on the right track for all segments. My selection criterion includes some 20-30 traits with no room to sacrifice on any of them. It takes time but is worth it.

Jason
 

Northern Rancher

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Jason you are trying to select for 20 or 30 traits at the same time-I'm curious as to what they are could you indulge me and list them in the order of importance. I'm a bit sceptical but I'm willing to learn.
 

Northern Rancher

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Jason you are trying to select for 20 or 30 traits at the same time-I'm curious as to what they are could you indulge me and list them in the order of importance. I'm a bit sceptical but I'm willing to learn.
 

Brad S

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Jason, To narrow the scope a bit, remember that in the 60s Angus were too small, and in the 70s too big, but somewhere they started to get things about right. What bulls really started the breed down the current path of dominance?
 

Brad S

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The only way a breeder can focus on many traits is to have most well under control. For example a pure bred breeder must sselect for temperment, but the long standing breeders rarely have a problem with temperment. The average duration of a pure bred business in the US is 7 years; the best herdsman in the world can't get it done in 7 years.
 

Northern Rancher

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A more interesting question is what bulls are starting them on the road to peredition lol. There are alot of very good angus bulls in their own way but very few are what i'd call a 'breed changer'. Some are very popular at the present time but as far as enduring and impacting the breed for years there really has never been or will be a bull like QAS Traveler 23-4. I'd guess over half the registered Angus today trace back to him. I find it very interesting how a bull that was very popular a few years back can virtually disappear-gives you a hint on the practicality of his offspring for sure.
 

Jason

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Brad, Angus never really got too big in the whole scope of things. Major showers did get too big in the 80's, but many ordinary breeders weren't there yet.

The trend smaller catches the followers who have never caught up to the bigger cattle and they breed down fast.

Lines like Traveller 23-4 will knock frame size off cows so fast it makes your head spin. Putting it back on while maintaining thickness is tougher.

NR our 20-30 traits are 8-10 epd ranges, white, feet, fertility, disposition, pedigree, length of body, frame size, legs structure, shoulder smoothness, breeder integrity, loose skin, longevity..... probably more...many are covere in eye appeal, but that is a huge generalization. Importance is debateabl, depending on where or how we are using said genetics. Some things are not negotiable, some are flexible with in reason. Bottom line is the bottom line.
 

Faster horses

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Jason, you sound like an austue breeder, for sure. The traits you listed are of great importance.

8-10 epd ranges~I'm not sure I follow you. Would you elaborate a bit?And would you list some bloodlines for us, please?

Will be glad when this border closure is out of the way. Would like to see your cattle. Thanks for keeping the commercial man in mind.

Just got 4 of our bulls yesterday. Whew, are they ever thick!! Bred in, not fed on~looks like they are going to be good. Fed free choice grass hay, a little corn and mineral this past winter.
 

Northern Rancher

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Ohh the infamous 'white' lol.I'msure you know Doug Henderson get him to show you the grand champion of an early 1800's Scottish angus show-'Grey Breasted Jock' he's white from his chest to his butt. One thing though it gets some good bulls sold to commercial men because of a little splash of white-in fact the best GDAR Rainmaker 340 son I ever saw bred commercial cows for a spot the size of a penny.
 

Jake

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I would put it at a tie between EXT and 23-4, 6807 had an absolutely huge impact on maternal traits through the breed as well as EXT did for productive cattle without increasing frame size too much. Band of Ideal 234 is the bull that is in almost every critter in the breed due to the mass amounts of quality bulls that he produced also...
 

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