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Argentina to be Opened Up for Beef!!!!!

mrj

Well-known member
You boys sure get confused trying to keep your lies about NCBA coherent.....and you are not really succeeding either!

OT, it's pretty pathetic when you have to resort to putting down a guy because of a prominent Adams apple! Maybe you are jealous.......it's usually tall, thin guys who have prominent adams apples, isn't it???

Haven't you been too busy playing judge or working your horsetrader gig to spend much time visiting with your anti-NCBA buddies?

You boys having hissy fits over the no BSE test stopping exports have no proof that the trade would have opened any faster if we had been testing. People I've heard talk who have considerable expertise and experience in international beef trade believe that issue is more an artificial trade barrier than anything else. It certainly isn't justified by known science.

Sandhusker, you DID NOT KNOW, did you??? Those VP's you have been claiming were members tossed out of NCBA for some hidden reason which you apparently assumed must be some scandal, were really staff people!!!! How many times did you post THAT false claim without getting the facts????

It probably is right, as many have told me, that there is no real use in trying to point out the ignorance and misconceptions of some of your posts to you. And your tagline does admit your posts are simply your own opinions, substantiated only by yourself. I suppose that could be why there are few other NCBA members posting her anymore. Bullsession has been dominated by a few of you with Luddite views for quite some time now. It seems a shame, as it used to be a good place for give and take exchange of views.

I believe NCBA has the right to tell legislators that OUR more than 40,000 members believe issues we support are in the best interest of the cattle industry. It would be rather easy for legislators to figure out how much of the US cattle industry we control, thus the affect on the total industry.

Sandhusker, your refusal to admit that NCBA does NOT represent packers to congress is simply that.......your refusal to admit it.......not fact at all.

NCBA members know there has to be a better way than the old LMA led adversarial relationship with packers, where each segment of the cattle/beef business feeds off the one behind it. We believe it more product to work cooperatively to achieve a Value Based system where we are paid for the value we add to the product we sell.

mrj

I don't share your beliefs that the USA is going to be flooded with South American beef anytime soon.

mrj
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
MRJ, "You boys having hissy fits over the no BSE test stopping exports have no proof that the trade would have opened any faster if we had been testing. People I've heard talk who have considerable expertise and experience in international beef trade believe that issue is more an artificial trade barrier than anything else. It certainly isn't justified by known science."

Good Gawd, MRJ, the Japanese were the ones asking for the tested beef! You always blather on about "market driven" products, it doesn't get any more driven than that!

How the hell can it be a trade barrier when they're doing it themselves! What would the purpose of a trade barrier be when they just replaced what they bought from us beef from Austalia? Did you ever just for a second THINK if that trade barrier excuse made any sense in light of what was happening? I'd say those people have considerable experience removing their heads from their rears only when the packers tapped on their shoulders.

Why do you still support the hypocracy of allowing hormone free but not BSE testing? Why don't you stop and THINK about that?

Sandhusker, you DID NOT KNOW, did you??? Those VP's you have been claiming were members tossed out of NCBA for some hidden reason which you apparently assumed must be some scandal, were really staff people!!!! How many times did you post THAT false claim without getting the facts????

What does "LEAVE the organization" mean, MRJ? Do you think you'll see them at next year's convention?

Sandhusker, your refusal to admit that NCBA does NOT represent packers to congress is simply that.......your refusal to admit it.......not fact at all.

Have somebody teach you how to use a search engine and then compare NCBA's stands on the issues with that of the AMI. You have no idea what is going on - none.


I don't share your beliefs that the USA is going to be flooded with South American beef anytime soon.

Like I said, you have no idea what is going on. Ever hear of JBS? Are you aware that US packers are in S.A.? What do you think happens under the Free Trade NCBA blindly supports
 

mrj

Well-known member
Sooooo, Sandhusker, don't you consider the Japanese capable of using this issue as a trade barrier? There were difficult elections coming up at that time. There are people who believe that had more to do with not accepting our cattle than the less than testing or not testing in the USA, whether you knew it or not.

You and I disagree on the wisdom of less than totally accurate tests used by people most likely having no training in use of the test, in uncontrolled circumstances and selling the resulting beef as "BSE Tested", implying a beef product guaranteed safe from BSE.

The "purpose" would be that BSE testing demands effectively made it impossible for the USA to serve that market without also testing ALL beef produced in the USA, which would take considerable time to implement, as well as being a bogus implied guarantee of BSE free beef, when our Specified Risk Material free beef was (and is) considered by the best science available at the time as safe to consume.

Do you even believe what you claim re. "....the hypocracy of allowing hormone free but not BSE testing"???? There is testing to show residues down to billionth part which WILL detect hormones in beef. What was the percent of accuracy of the best BSE test available at that time?

Amazing! You STILL think they were MEMBERS! News Flash: they were EMPLOYEES, not cattle producer members, and most likely will be working for someone other than NCBA next year, therefore may, or may not be at the convention. When an organization decides to streamline an organization, cutting number of staff, it is necessary that some jobs will be eliminated. What is so difficult to understand, or so sinister, about that?

News Flash AGAIN! There are cattle producers, and many of them, who do not believe the AMI always is wrong, or that it is necessary for a good cattle producer organization to always be in opposition to all packer interests in order to serve the best interests of cattle producers.

Do you even know that AMI represents ALL sizes of packers?

Yes, I have heard of JBS some years ago. Yes, I have known some US packers operate in other countries.

I KNOW one thing that is happening under the FTA's is that the high import taxes on US beef going into several South American countries is being eliminated and that it already has resulted in more US beef being sold in those countries. I also KNOW that such trade does benefit US producers while at least some leaders of your group insists it does not.

Are you sure you really are a bank employee?

mrj
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Sooooo, Sandhusker, don't you consider the Japanese capable of using this issue as a trade barrier? There were difficult elections coming up at that time. There are people who believe that had more to do with not accepting our cattle than the less than testing or not testing in the USA, whether you knew it or not.

Of course they are capable, they are capable of anything. Somebody at AMI/USDA just said this is a trade barrier and you NCBA dolts just nodded and said, (Homer Simpson voice) "Mmmmmmmm, trade barrier..." You never once stopped to consider that Japan was requiring the same of domestic producers! Now, just what do you think the Japanese producers would of done had product from a BSE country been able to be sold without testing while theirs could not?

Do you realize that a trade barrier is supposed to be a mechanism to protect domestics from imports? Do you realize that Japan's imports from Australia just replaced ours? Now how did that protect Japanese producers from imports? Answer: IT DIDN'T, THEREFORE IT WASN'T A TRADE BARRIER!


You and I disagree on the wisdom of less than totally accurate tests used by people most likely having no training in use of the test, in uncontrolled circumstances and selling the resulting beef as "BSE Tested", implying a beef product guaranteed safe from BSE.

Now you're just making crap up. The tests are accurate, the staff would be trained (unless you consider the oversight of the USDA to be untrained, which you might have a point on), and the environment controlled. I challenge you to prove otherwise. If you have to make up crap to prove your point, you ought to rethink your point.

The "purpose" would be that BSE testing demands effectively made it impossible for the USA to serve that market without also testing ALL beef produced in the USA, which would take considerable time to implement, as well as being a bogus implied guarantee of BSE free beef, when our Specified Risk Material free beef was (and is) considered by the best science available at the time as safe to consume.

Just why would ALL beef have to be tested?

I've asked you before if you would serve beef to your family if you knew it came from a BSE positive animal that had the SRMs removed. You never answered. I'll ask again; Would you?


Do you even believe what you claim re. "....the hypocracy of allowing hormone free but not BSE testing"???? There is testing to show residues down to billionth part which WILL detect hormones in beef. What was the percent of accuracy of the best BSE test available at that time?

MRJ, the hypocracy is argueing that both are not based on sound science, that both provide benefits that are not real, but allowing one and not the other.
Yes, I have heard of JBS some years ago. Yes, I have known some US packers operate in other countries.

Do you have any idea why JBS is buying packers up here? Have you ever questioned why US packers have been investing in countries that produce way more beef than can be consumed? Do you realize what that means when you throw Free Trade in the mix? I'll tell you; They are positioning themselves to bring S.A. beef into this country because S.A. beef is CHEAPER than yours!

I KNOW one thing that is happening under the FTA's is that the high import taxes on US beef going into several South American countries is being eliminated and that it already has resulted in more US beef being sold in those countries. I also KNOW that such trade does benefit US producers while at least some leaders of your group insists it does not.

There's two sides of this trade deal. What is the NET result, MRJ? (Exports - Imports).
 

mrj

Well-known member
Sandhusker, didn't you know trade, and trade barriers, are not always one on one. Who knows what sort product Japan had in mind when usind our BSE tests of our beef as the hostage???

And, yes, I have known from the beginning that Japan was testing their own beef.

No, I'm not making anything up. Where is the verified accurate BSE test? You make the claim, at the least by implication, that it exists. Where is your proof?

Where is the proof that SRM removal does not effectly produce beef safe from BSE?

Why wouldn't all beef have to be tested? If some people can buy BSE tested USA born and raised beef, you are going to deny it to YOUR customers???? Even you 4-H calf customers will be clamoring for BSE free cattle if there really is a test available for living cattle, won't they?

Silly boy, if the science re. BSE is not able to show absolute cause and effect between BSE in cattle and the so called vCJD in humans, and cattle showing clinical symptions are excluded from slaughter for food, AND we are using SRM removal, where is the opportunity to "serve your family BSE positive beef" as you imply? Do you serve your family beef when some 'researchers' insist they have found it WILL cause cancer???? Same deal, IMO.

It's quite apparent, the JBS family says the price was right. They are optimistic about the future of the beef industry, seeing the rise of a "middle class" in the Third World nations that is hungry for US style foods, especially beef.

Are you very, very certain JBS plans to bury us in South American beef.....when we are 4% of world population, and the major opportunities for growth in the beef market, even the high price cuts, is overseas with the 96% population of this world. The comparative currency values seems to make this the most likely scenario, IMO, and according to what I've heard on the subject. But then, I'm not biased by "evil corporate anxiety".

What is our current rate of beef imports/exports compared with pre 2003?

mrj
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Sandhusker, didn't you know trade, and trade barriers, are not always one on one. Who knows what sort product Japan had in mind when usind our BSE tests of our beef as the hostage???

I know exactly what they had in mind. It's obvious - how could they require BSE testing of domestic product but then allow beef from another BSE country to not be tested?

No, I'm not making anything up. Where is the verified accurate BSE test? You make the claim, at the least by implication, that it exists. Where is your proof?

First of all, Mike has shown you the proof of the accuracy of that test several times already when we've had the same dang coversation. Secondly, if it's OK with the Japanese - the people writing the check - who the heck are you to have a say?

Where is the proof that SRM removal does not effectly produce beef safe from BSE?

Where is the proof that it does?

Why wouldn't all beef have to be tested? If some people can buy BSE tested USA born and raised beef, you are going to deny it to YOUR customers???? Even you 4-H calf customers will be clamoring for BSE free cattle if there really is a test available for living cattle, won't they?

Japan is only taking 20 month cattle, but we're denying that to our customers - they have to take everything. Didn't think of that, did you?

How does "some people" translate into all beef? We will have to test all the beef just for some people? After preaching this "market driven" stuff over and over, why are you denying customers a market driven product? You don't believe in giving customers what they want? You don't think there is any money to be made in supplying niche markets?


Silly boy, if the science re. BSE is not able to show absolute cause and effect between BSE in cattle and the so called vCJD in humans, and cattle showing clinical symptions are excluded from slaughter for food, AND we are using SRM removal, where is the opportunity to "serve your family BSE positive beef" as you imply? Do you serve your family beef when some 'researchers' insist they have found it WILL cause cancer???? Same deal, IMO.

AGAIN, you refuse to answer the question. Would you knowingly serve beef from an animal that tested positive for BSE if the SRM's were removed?

It's quite apparent, the JBS family says the price was right. They are optimistic about the future of the beef industry, seeing the rise of a "middle class" in the Third World nations that is hungry for US style foods, especially beef.

They have feedlots in SA, too, MRJ. They don't need to buy US packers to get fattened beef.

Are you very, very certain JBS plans to bury us in South American beef.....when we are 4% of world population, and the major opportunities for growth in the beef market, even the high price cuts, is overseas with the 96% population of this world. The comparative currency values seems to make this the most likely scenario, IMO, and according to what I've heard on the subject. But then, I'm not biased by "evil corporate anxiety".

I don't think corporations are evil, either. They're created to make money - remember what I told you about transfering wealth? Of course you don't. You think they're buying here to supply the world when they've already got a herd size that's 4 times ours and we don't even produce the tonnage needed to feed ourselves? You need to think that one through a little better....

What is our current rate of beef imports/exports compared with pre 2003?

Still haven't caught up - which still would be nothing to brag on since that means you're conceeding the growth that should of occured in 5 years time.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
AGAIN, you refuse to answer the question. Would you knowingly serve beef from an animal that tested positive for BSE if the SRM's were removed?
 

mrj

Well-known member
SAndhusker, re. the BIG Q. that bugs you so........where is the opportunity to buy "beef from a BSE infected animal"? Unless, that is, you actually believe the R-CALF propaganda that we have already imported and slaughtered it in Canadian cattle.........or that the "failed" testing program we used (which experts agree would find a BSE positive animal if we had a miniscule number of them) cause some to be sold as food.

POINT: if you are right, I've already served BSE contaminated beef to my family. If you are NOT right, which I believe is the case, the point is moot. Get over it already!

You conveniently ignore the fact that the SOUND SCIENCE you don't like to admit exists, indicates that we ARE abundantly cautious in preparation of BSE free beef WITHOUT testing every animal.

Re. your understanding of "transfering wealth" is no better than your spelling (or will you blame that on a typo?) of "transferring", your bias against corporations, while POSSIBLY not hatred, is misplaced, IMO.

You also ignore the fact that there is more to economics thatn simply "wealth transferring". There is also wealth CREATION via ADDING VALUE to beef by various people up the chain, beginning with the producer, and ending with the retailer and food service, the latter two do this by providing the information consumers want,(from recipes to quality guarantees on their top priced beef, to advice on how to best prepare different qualities of beef for optimum eating experience, and MORE)!

Those JBS feedlots in SA do not have the world reknowned HIGH QUALITY GRAIN FED BEEF we produce here in the USA whidh is in such high demand worldwide.

While I realize this is something which bears watching, I agree with Andy Groseta: "It isn't something to go into a panic about".

However, if, in anticipation of the end of cattle ranching in the USA, you are ready to sell off some nice big ranch at firesale prices, give me a call!

mrj
 

PORKER

Well-known member
FSIS announces agenda for E. coli meeting

By Alicia Karapetian on 4/4/2008 for Meatingplace.com

FSIS has released the agenda for its April 9-10 public meeting, titled, "E. coli O157:H7 — addressing the challenges, moving forward with solutions."

The agenda, which can be seen here, includes a session titled, "Current FSIS thinking on the treatment of primal cuts." FSIS, in announcing the meeting, said that the agency is contemplating classifying raw beef product such as primal cuts and boxed beef adulterated if those products test positive for E. coli O157:H7.

(See USDA may broaden scope of meats deemed adulterated by E. coli on Meatingplace.com, March 28, 2008.)

The public meeting will be held on Wednesday, April 9, from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., and Thursday, April 10, from 8:30 a.m. to 1 p.m., at the Holiday Inn Georgetown, 2101 Wisconsin Ave., NW, Washington, DC.

To register for the meeting, click here.: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/News_&_Events/Registration_040908_Meeting/index.asp
 

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