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Arizona: Illegal immigration

Liveoak

Well-known member
FROM CNN's Jack Cafferty:

So Arizona passes a tough law against illegal immigration and suddenly they get Washington's attention.

One poll finds 70 percent of Arizona voters support the new law... hey, maybe we better do something too. So like the lemmings they are when they smell a chance to score political points... and some of them need a lot of help with the midterms approaching - there is talk now of rushing immigration reform through Congress.

President Obama called the Arizona law "misguided." What is misguided, Mr. President, is the federal government's refusal to enforce the laws already on the books. Read the Arizona law... parts of it are word-for-word the same as the federal laws - which continue to be ignored.

Now we'll hear all sorts of blathering from our Washington gerbils about the need for a new federal law. There will be press conferences, interviews, committee hearings, draft legislation, polling... all the usual carnival acts that accompany any hot-button issue in Washington, DC.

Instead of simply closing the borders and enforcing the existing law so that they could turn their attention to something like the national debt and the fact that the country is bankrupt, we will get this freak show.

Washington's position on illegal immigration is dishonest from the top down. No enforcement. No border security. Just pandering to the Hispanic voters and the corporations that hire the illegals.

But when one of our states that is being ravaged by the presence of 460,000 illegal aliens inside its borders does something about it, the president says that's "misguided."

What a shame.

Here’s my question to you: Will the federal government ever enforce our immigration laws?

------------------------------------------------------------------

My guess is that the politicians won't enforce the laws because they want the hispanic vote.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Washington's position on illegal immigration is dishonest from the top down. No enforcement. No border security. Just pandering to the Hispanic voters and the corporations that hire the illegals.

And that has been the position since the last Amnesty Law was enacted almost 25 years ago (1986)-and made hiring illegals a crime- that was supposed to solve the problem (but never enforced).... :roll: :(
 

Steve

Well-known member
when laws go un-enforced, people look at those who are responsible, (police, sheriffs, courts, judges, and politicians) and ask them to do as they swore to do,,, uphold the law....

but all we hear is excuses...

I for one support Arizona's effort to at least try...

Sheriff Joe for Homeland security... head of border patrol... cause as a county sheriff he is doing more then talk...
 

Mike

Well-known member
Do You Miss Him Yet? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Immigration raids called harsh
Agents herded suspects into cattle arena, coerced guilty pleas, Rep. Lofgren says
July 25, 2008|By Carolyn Lochhead, Chronicle Washington Bureau
Washington - — Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-San Jose, blasted the Bush administration Thursday for conducting what Democrats described as harsh and punitive immigration raids, calling special attention to a raid at a kosher meatpacking plant in Iowa in May where nearly 400 illegal workers, mainly Guatemalans, were arrested in the largest worksite immigration raid in U.S. history.

Lofgren, who chairs the House Judiciary Committee's immigration panel, said at a hearing on the raid that Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents rounded up workers at the Agriprocessors meat packing plant in Postville, Iowa, and then they were "herded into a cattle arena and prodded down a cattle chute, coerced into guilty pleas and then to federal prison."
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Steve said:
when laws go un-enforced, people look at those who are responsible, (police, sheriffs, courts, judges, and politicians) and ask them to do as they swore to do,,, uphold the law....


Steve- take it one step further-- how about all those folks hiring them for their poolboys and maids- to roof their houses- and working with them in employment situations...Why have not these citizens been doing citizen arrests?

As far as city, county, state, police, sheriffs, judges, courts- they have little/no authority over Federal Law-- which is what all immigration law previously has been...In 99% of the cases their hands were tied by having to turn any violators over to Federal Immigration authorities, Federal Prosecutors and Federal Courts for any followup-- and the Feds from the top down were doing little or nothing....

I saw hundreds over the years arrested by local/county/state authorities-- but as soon as they were turned over to the Feds for prosecution-- the local authorities had no more say in what happened...And usually nothing much more happened...

Reagan signed the last amnesty- which also made it illegal to hire undocumented workers- but it was never enforced or even funded for enforcement- either by his Administration or the several that followed....
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Steve said:
when laws go un-enforced, people look at those who are responsible, (police, sheriffs, courts, judges, and politicians) and ask them to do as they swore to do,,, uphold the law....


Steve- take it one step further-- how about all those folks hiring them for their poolboys and maids- to roof their houses- and working with them in employment situations...Why have not these citizens been doing citizen arrests?

As far as city, county, state, police, sheriffs, judges, courts- they have little/no authority over Federal Law-- which is what all immigration law previously has been...In 99% of the cases their hands were tied by having to turn any violators over to Federal Immigration authorities, Federal Prosecutors and Federal Courts for any followup-- and the Feds from the top down were doing little or nothing....

I saw hundreds over the years arrested by local/county/state authorities-- but as soon as they were turned over to the Feds for prosecution-- the local authorities had no more say in what happened...And usually nothing much more happened...

Reagan signed the last amnesty- which also made it illegal to hire undocumented workers- but it was never enforced or even funded for enforcement- either by his Administration or the several that followed....


Reagan Amnesty Pop Quiz


1. The Reagan Amnesty granted a blanket Amnesty to Illegal Aliens.

2. The Reagan Amnesty granted automatic citizenship to Illegal Aliens.

3. The Reagan Amnesty granted citizenship to some Illegal Aliens.

4. The Reagan Amnesty granted automatic permanent residence (green cards) to Illegal Aliens.

5. The Reagan Amnesty granted immediate permanent residence (green cards) to some Illegal Aliens.

6. The Reagan Amnesty was granted to Illegal Aliens, free of charge.

Bonus Question:

The Reagan Amnesty mentions the word “Amnesty.”

Double Secret Bonus Question:

The word “Amnesty” is mentioned in the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986.


And to insure that the program would work, the Congress included
in the legislation supplemental authorizations of $422 million for fiscal year 1987 and $419 million for fiscal year 1988 for INS
enforcement and other services.

http://www.loc.gov/law/find/hearings/pdf/00114289838.pdf
 

WyomingRancher

Well-known member
Just when you think you've heard it all :roll:

Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge (Refuge) announces the availability for public review and
comment of a draft assessment on the compatibility of a proposal to establish and maintain drinking
water stations on the Refuge to prevent deaths due to dehydration. The Refuge is encouraging input
by the public on this Draft Compatibility Determination before a final decision is made whether to
permit the proposed use....

...This assessment finds that when established and maintained within the agreed upon stipulations
these water stations should result in a decrease in the number of individuals dying due to
dehydration on Refuge lands, decreased traffic by illegal immigrants in sensitive areas away from
water stations, reduced environmental impact by efforts of humanitarian organizations, and a
greater likelihood of habitat protection, recovery and restoration...

To read more, and for comment info.:

http://www.fws.gov/southwest/refuges/arizona/buenosaires/PDFs/HumaneWaters.DraftCDNR.4.2.2010.pdf
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I don't remember the Bush/McCain/Kennedy immigration law saying anything about it being amnesty either-- but thats what the American people determined it to be....Same as the Reagan signed Law was determined by the people to be an amnesty.... Hard to believe that you haven't learned by now- that what the cults call them - is not often what they really are.....

As far as funding- it was never funded to the capability to handle the problem....I watched hundreds of illegal immigrants picked up by local authorities- that Federal Immigration/Border Patrol then interviewed and determined were illegal- but then said since they had no funding to hold them or transport them- were given NTA's (notices to appear) for deportation hearings months down the line....Want to bet how many showed up for their hearings :???:
Usually by Jan 1 their budget was shot (Oct to Oct budgets)- always by summer work season..This was all thru the 70's, 80's, and 90's-- and I can't remember seeing one of their illegal employers ever charged under the Federal Law....
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
I don't remember the Bush/McCain/Kennedy immigration law saying anything about it being amnesty either-- but thats what the American people determined it to be....Same as the Reagan signed Law was determined by the people to be an amnesty.... Hard to believe that you haven't learned by now- that what the cults call them - is not often what they really are.....

As far as funding- it was never funded to the capability to handle the problem....I watched hundreds of illegal immigrants picked up by local authorities- that Federal Immigration/Border Patrol then interviewed and determined were illegal- but then said since they had no funding to hold them or transport them- were given NTA's (notices to appear) for deportation hearings months down the line....Want to bet how many showed up for their hearings :???:
Usually by Jan 1 their budget was shot (Oct to Oct budgets)- always by summer work season..This was all thru the 70's, 80's, and 90's-- and I can't remember seeing one of their illegal employers ever charged under the Federal Law....

So which is it, it was never funded or the local authorities blew their budget before year end?
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Washington's position on illegal immigration is dishonest from the top down. No enforcement. No border security. Just pandering to the Hispanic voters and the corporations that hire the illegals.

And that has been the position since the last Amnesty Law was enacted almost 25 years ago (1986)-and made hiring illegals a crime- that was supposed to solve the problem (but never enforced).... :roll: :(

Again I have to disagree with you. Things have never been the same since that law was passed. A whole lot of folks no longer used the labor.

I do know of some who ran rock quarry operations that saw the law enforced.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Steve- take it one step further-- how about all those folks hiring them for their poolboys and maids- to roof their houses- and working with them in employment situations...Why have not these citizens been doing citizen arrests?

how many Citizen arrests have you seen in your life... I have only seen a few "detentions" and they had to do with burglaries and property crimes..

with that said, I would be glad to do my part.. but the ones you point out are the tip of the problem.. I could easily point our police to the drug ridden properties, but nothing gets done here either... Most Americans are tired of excuses.... and politicians blaming every one else's for their not doing their job..

30% of our prison population is illegals.. most Americans want the criminal element dealt with and Arizona's law is a good start..
 
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Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
I don't remember the Bush/McCain/Kennedy immigration law saying anything about it being amnesty either-- but thats what the American people determined it to be....Same as the Reagan signed Law was determined by the people to be an amnesty.... Hard to believe that you haven't learned by now- that what the cults call them - is not often what they really are.....

As far as funding- it was never funded to the capability to handle the problem....I watched hundreds of illegal immigrants picked up by local authorities- that Federal Immigration/Border Patrol then interviewed and determined were illegal- but then said since they had no funding to hold them or transport them- were given NTA's (notices to appear) for deportation hearings months down the line....Want to bet how many showed up for their hearings :???:
Usually by Jan 1 their budget was shot (Oct to Oct budgets)- always by summer work season..This was all thru the 70's, 80's, and 90's-- and I can't remember seeing one of their illegal employers ever charged under the Federal Law....

So which is it, it was never funded or the local authorities blew their budget before year end?

"Local authorities" have no immigration enforcement budget...That is a federal jurisdiction....The Federal Agencies were never provided with even 1/10th enough funding to provide enforcement....

You keep trying to blow smoke up your rear to convince yourself how well border security and immigration has been enforced for the past 10-20-30 years -- and make it sound like its something that just jumped up (BLAME Obama- or BLAME just Dems)- and you show less and less what you really know....
Why is the US Chamber of Commerce crawled in bed with the ACLU now- fighting the E-Verify law that would make workers prove their legal status :???:
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Steve- take it one step further-- how about all those folks hiring them for their poolboys and maids- to roof their houses- and working with them in employment situations...Why have not these citizens been doing citizen arrests?

The ramifications are that illegals are now running the businesses and hiring illegals.

Businesses that once existed on the labor raised costs and went under. Now illegals are in the business and thriving.

Do you buy electricity? Do you buy wood products or furniture? Do you buy gasoline? Do you buy stone (big around here) or stone products such as lime? If so, you are doing worse than hiring a poolboy or maid.
 

Steve

Well-known member
As far as city, county, state, police, sheriffs, judges, courts- they have little/no authority over Federal Law-- which is what all immigration law previously has been...In 99% of the cases their hands were tied by having to turn any violators over to Federal Immigration authorities, Federal Prosecutors and Federal Courts for any followup-- and the Feds from the top down were doing little or nothing....

I saw hundreds over the years arrested by local/county/state authorities-- but as soon as they were turned over to the Feds for prosecution-- the local authorities had no more say in what happened...And usually nothing much more happened...

a law similar to the one signed in Arizona would solve that problem...
 
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Anonymous

Guest
backhoeboogie said:
Oldtimer said:
Steve- take it one step further-- how about all those folks hiring them for their poolboys and maids- to roof their houses- and working with them in employment situations...Why have not these citizens been doing citizen arrests?

The ramifications are that illegals are now running the businesses and hiring illegals.

Businesses that once existed on the labor raised costs and went under. Now illegals are in the business and thriving.

Do you buy electricity? Do you buy wood products or furniture? Do you buy gasoline? Do you buy stone (big around here) or stone products such as lime? If so, you are doing worse than hiring a poolboy or maid.


A national boycot is needed of bussinesses that employ them as well as all of the bussinesses run by them.

Any and every Mexican is welcome in America but do it like hundreds of millions of other imigrants have. DO IT LEGALLY AND WHEN YOU DO PLEDGE ALLEGANCE TO THE UBNITED STATES OF AMERICA :wink:

Pay taxes and build a bigger stronger and better America rather than taking a free ride.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
I don't remember the Bush/McCain/Kennedy immigration law saying anything about it being amnesty either-- but thats what the American people determined it to be....Same as the Reagan signed Law was determined by the people to be an amnesty.... Hard to believe that you haven't learned by now- that what the cults call them - is not often what they really are.....

As far as funding- it was never funded to the capability to handle the problem....I watched hundreds of illegal immigrants picked up by local authorities- that Federal Immigration/Border Patrol then interviewed and determined were illegal- but then said since they had no funding to hold them or transport them- were given NTA's (notices to appear) for deportation hearings months down the line....Want to bet how many showed up for their hearings :???:
Usually by Jan 1 their budget was shot (Oct to Oct budgets)- always by summer work season..This was all thru the 70's, 80's, and 90's-- and I can't remember seeing one of their illegal employers ever charged under the Federal Law....

So which is it, it was never funded or the local authorities blew their budget before year end?

"Local authorities" have no immigration enforcement budget...That is a federal jurisdiction....The Federal Agencies were never provided with even 1/10th enough funding to provide enforcement....

You keep trying to blow smoke up your rear to convince yourself how well border security and immigration has been enforced for the past 10-20-30 years -- and make it sound like its something that just jumped up (BLAME Obama- or BLAME just Dems)- and you show less and less what you really know....
Why is the US Chamber of Commerce crawled in bed with the ACLU now- fighting the E-Verify law that would make workers prove their legal status :???:

No, I think the US sucks at border control. I corrected your lie that the Reagan "Amensty" bill was not funded.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Steve said:
Steve- take it one step further-- how about all those folks hiring them for their poolboys and maids- to roof their houses- and working with them in employment situations...Why have not these citizens been doing citizen arrests?

how many Citizen arrests have you seen in your life... I have only seen a few "detentions" and they had to do with burglaries and property crimes..

with that said, I would be glad to do my part.. but the ones you point out are the tip of the problem.. I could easily point our police to the drug ridden properties, but nothing gets done here either... Most Americans are tired of excuses.... and politicians blaming every one else's for their not doing their job..

30% of our prison population is illegals.. most Americans want the criminal element dealt with and Arizona's law is a good start..

Steve- and I agree with you-- Vigilantism should not have to be the way...
BUT you seemed to want to point fingers at- and blame local/state authorities-- many of which have went overboard in the enforcement-- but found they were pounding their heads against a brick wall that there was nothing more they could do with....

When you have the liberals/mexican lobby supporting illegals for more Dems/population- and the elitist wealthy "poolboy, maid, nannie" of both parties lobby supporting illegals, along with the Repub corporate and National Chamber of Commerce lobbys supporting illegals for cheap labor--and the fact they've been doing it for 30+ years--its pretty tough to point a finger at who's fault for our illegal immigration problem...
Darn sure isn't the local enforcement in any of the areas I've been around...

a law similar to the one signed in Arizona would solve that problem...

Great if you're in Arizona- and the Rio Grande is only a few hours drive away-- pretty darn costly to the State taxpayer if you're a few thousand miles away in Montana...
Montana looked at the law back about time of the proposed Bush/McCain/Kennedy amnesty-- but because of there already being a Federal responsibility (which I think is a Constitutional responsibility to protect and secure our borders)- and the huge cost to enforcement- they didn't pass it.....
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Steve said:
Steve- take it one step further-- how about all those folks hiring them for their poolboys and maids- to roof their houses- and working with them in employment situations...Why have not these citizens been doing citizen arrests?

how many Citizen arrests have you seen in your life... I have only seen a few "detentions" and they had to do with burglaries and property crimes..

with that said, I would be glad to do my part.. but the ones you point out are the tip of the problem.. I could easily point our police to the drug ridden properties, but nothing gets done here either... Most Americans are tired of excuses.... and politicians blaming every one else's for their not doing their job..

30% of our prison population is illegals.. most Americans want the criminal element dealt with and Arizona's law is a good start..

Steve- and I agree with you-- Vigilantism should not have to be the way...
BUT you seemed to want to point fingers at- and blame local/state authorities-- many of which have went overboard in the enforcement-- but found they were pounding their heads against a brick wall that there was nothing more they could do with....

When you have the liberals/mexican lobby supporting illegals for more Dems/population- and the elitist wealthy "poolboy, maid, nannie" of both parties lobby supporting illegals, along with the Repub corporate and National Chamber of Commerce lobbys supporting illegals for cheap labor--and the fact they've been doing it for 30+ years--its pretty tough to point a finger at who's fault for our illegal immigration problem...
Darn sure isn't the local enforcement in any of the areas I've been around...

a law similar to the one signed in Arizona would solve that problem...

Great if you're in Arizona- and the Rio Grande is only a few hours drive away-- pretty darn costly to the State taxpayer if you're a few thousand miles away in Montana...
Montana looked at the law back about time of the proposed Bush/McCain/Kennedy amnesty-- but because of there already being a Federal responsibility (which I think is a Constitutional responsibility to protect and secure our borders)- and the huge cost to enforcement- they didn't pass it.....


Yea Montana has a real immigration problem doesn't it oldtimer???
how many illegals cross your property in given week??
how many empty water bottles left for YOU to pick up??
How many dead ones do you find on your property???
How many ranchers in your area feel threatened by them
How many ranchers has Montana lost this yr to the illegals
How many did you encounter in all your years and vast experence in law enforcement in VALLEY COUNTY MONTANA????

:roll: :roll: :roll:
Shows your ignorance when you mention the RIO GRANDE as a reference
to the problem!!!!
Could you provide some proof that that is where they are crossing??
NAH you can't because you are un informed
:wink: :roll: :wink: :roll: as usual
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
Pig Farmer said:
backhoeboogie said:
Oldtimer said:
Steve- take it one step further-- how about all those folks hiring them for their poolboys and maids- to roof their houses- and working with them in employment situations...Why have not these citizens been doing citizen arrests?

The ramifications are that illegals are now running the businesses and hiring illegals.

Businesses that once existed on the labor raised costs and went under. Now illegals are in the business and thriving.

Do you buy electricity? Do you buy wood products or furniture? Do you buy gasoline? Do you buy stone (big around here) or stone products such as lime? If so, you are doing worse than hiring a poolboy or maid.


A national boycot is needed of bussinesses that employ them as well as all of the bussinesses run by them.

Any and every Mexican is welcome in America but do it like hundreds of millions of other imigrants have. DO IT LEGALLY AND WHEN YOU DO PLEDGE ALLEGANCE TO THE UBNITED STATES OF AMERICA :wink:

Pay taxes and build a bigger stronger and better America rather than taking a free ride.

I agree somewhat. This situation is not much different than me refusing to buy things off of eBay or Craig'slist because of all the stolen goods sold there.

It seems every time a law is passed, it works against us one way or another. People figure out ways to get around things or else they just break the rules.

The situation was better prior to them outlawing hiring illegals. Now their wages are higher and we are paying for it with practically all consumer goods, one way or another.
 
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