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Attention SH and Agman

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Thanks, Mike, for the legwork. SH and Agman, you still insist Japan never asked for testing? Anything else you want to tell us? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Japan has asked for testing of all U.S. cattle for BSE, for which there is no scientific justification", said Veneman.'
__________________________________________________________________________
QUESTION: (Toshio Aritake, Bureau of National Affairs) Have you discussed the possibility of introducing a new safety measure which Japan is demanding? Japan is requesting 100 percent testing. If Japan picks up, foots that cost of inspection fully for cattle to be exported to Japan, is it something the U.S. side can accept?


PENN: Well, as I indicated, we want to see the resumption of trade as quickly as possible, but there are certain conditions that we want to see go along with the resumption of that trade. As I said before, basing the trade on solid science, scientific principles, is very important to us. Doing it in a way that gives maximum reassurance of consumer safety is also a way that is very important to us. But we did discuss the possibility of 100 percent testing, and we have reviewed the scientific basis for that and, for the purposes for which we have a surveillance system we think it not necessary to do 100 percent testing
__________________________________________________________________

ENS, "The Japanese require all cattle to be tested for the disease before they can become food for humans, and the Japanese Ministry of Agriculture has required that the United States institute universal testing before the ban can be lifted. "
______________________________________________________________________

In their statement reacting to reports that Japan would reject the US proposal, Veneman and Zoellick said Japanese authorities "have continued to insist" on testing of all cattle and removal of SRMs as conditions for lifting the beef import ban.
_________________________________________________________________________

Cidrap News, "Apr 2, 2004 (CIDRAP News) – US officials this week proposed that the World Organization for Animal Health (OIE) be called on to help resolve the US trade dispute with Japan over bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE). But Japan, to the chagrin of US officials, reportedly plans to reject the proposal.

Japan wants all US cattle to be tested for BSE before it will lift its current ban on imports of American beef. The ban was imposed after the first American BSE case was discovered in December.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Randy Fabi, "Japan, the top buyer of American beef, has frustrated U.S. industry officials with its demand that all U.S. cattle be tested for mad cow disease before it resumes trade.

"The testing issue is very problematic," said Jim Hodges, president of the American Meat Institute Foundation.
_____________________________________________________________________________________

Despite aggressive measures implemented by the Department of Agriculture in January to strengthen existing U.S. safeguards against BSE, also known as "mad cow" disease, the Japanese Ministry of Agriculture has continued to insist upon testing of all animals and the removal of specific risk materials as conditions for the entry of U.S. beef products into the Japanese market.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Wikipedia, "Japan, the leading U.S. beef-export market, had been demanding 100 percent testing of all cattle for export, a position it has since altered.
 

ocm

Well-known member
I would say in regard to this post that it seems, Sandhusker, your only bias is the truth. Too bad others can't say the same thing. (truthfully)

I think what we're seeing now from Japan and Korea is a,"see, even when we lose we win," sort of game. Short of atomic weapons they will not offer an unconditional surrender to US. And they will continue to use the conditions against US.

Our negotiators were arrogant idiots. JB Penn is at the top of the list.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandcheska: "SH and Agman, you still insist Japan never asked for testing?"

No, I insist that Japan did not ask for testing in their negotiations with the US but rather they were negotiating SRM removal criteria and age verification and I insist that Japan is importing non tested beef from both Canada and the US, and I insist that nobody has ever provided proof that the Japanese government ever insisted on bse testing beef.

Japan's actions trump this "CLAIM" by Veneman. Only you would be stupid enough to argue that Japan wants tested beef as they import non tested beef.

Anything to "BWAME DA USDA"!


Japan has asked for testing of all U.S. cattle for BSE, for which there is no scientific justification", said Veneman.'

Japan has asked?????

Veneman was probably simply responding to R-CULT's claim. She probably assumed that R-CULT knew what they were talking about instead of researching the facts.

WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT JAPAN, THE COUNTRY (NOT A HANDFUL OF JAPANESE CONSUMERS) ASKED FOR TESTING????

WHERE IS IT??? HUH???

YOUR PROOF IS AN OUTDATED QUOTE CLAIMING WHAT JAPAN WANTS???


UNTIL YOU BRING PROOF, BEYOND A CLAIM, THAT JAPAN, THE COUNTRY, REQUESTED TESTING YOU GOT NOTHING!

Empty handed "again and again and again and again and again"!


~SH~
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
And your only bias is the truth? :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

SH, "No, I insist that Japan did not ask for testing in their negotiations with the US but rather they were negotiating SRM removal criteria and age verification and I insist that Japan is importing non tested beef from both Canada and the US, and I insist that nobody has ever provided proof that the Japanese government ever insisted on bse testing beef. "

" But we did discuss the possibility of 100 percent testing,...' I see, SH, they only "discussed", they didn't "negotiate. :roll:

SH, "Japan's actions trump this "CLAIM" by Veneman. Only you would be stupid enough to argue that Japan wants tested beef as they import non tested beef. Anything to "BWAME DA USDA"! "

Veneman only claimed? Was she lying or do you happen to know more about what the Japanese wanted that she did?


Quote:
Japan has asked for testing of all U.S. cattle for BSE, for which there is no scientific justification", said Veneman.'

Sh, "Veneman was probably simply responding to R-CULT's claim. She probably assumed that R-CULT knew what they were talking about instead of researching the facts."

Veneman was PROBABLY.... :lol: :lol: What is so hard to understand about that statement, SH - unless you don't really like what it says....

SH, "WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT JAPAN, THE COUNTRY (NOT A HANDFUL OF JAPANESE CONSUMERS) ASKED FOR TESTING???? WHERE IS IT??? HUH??? "

"....the Japanese Ministry of Agriculture has continued to insist upon testing of all animals ..." "...., and the Japanese Ministry of Agriculture has required that the United States institute universal testing before the ban can be lifted. "

You see now why I always ask what you will accept as proof when you demand it? Mike buried you in proof, yet you refuse to acknowledge it. You, SH, are an idiot. MRJ, this is your boy.
 

ocm

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
And your only bias is the truth? :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

SH, "No, I insist that Japan did not ask for testing in their negotiations with the US but rather they were negotiating SRM removal criteria and age verification and I insist that Japan is importing non tested beef from both Canada and the US, and I insist that nobody has ever provided proof that the Japanese government ever insisted on bse testing beef. "

" But we did discuss the possibility of 100 percent testing,...' I see, SH, they only "discussed", they didn't "negotiate. :roll:

SH, "Japan's actions trump this "CLAIM" by Veneman. Only you would be stupid enough to argue that Japan wants tested beef as they import non tested beef. Anything to "BWAME DA USDA"! "

Veneman only claimed? Was she lying or do you happen to know more about what the Japanese wanted that she did?


Quote:
Japan has asked for testing of all U.S. cattle for BSE, for which there is no scientific justification", said Veneman.'

Sh, "Veneman was probably simply responding to R-CULT's claim. She probably assumed that R-CULT knew what they were talking about instead of researching the facts."

Veneman was PROBABLY.... :lol: :lol: What is so hard to understand about that statement, SH - unless you don't really like what it says....

SH, "WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT JAPAN, THE COUNTRY (NOT A HANDFUL OF JAPANESE CONSUMERS) ASKED FOR TESTING???? WHERE IS IT??? HUH??? "

"....the Japanese Ministry of Agriculture has continued to insist upon testing of all animals ..." "...., and the Japanese Ministry of Agriculture has required that the United States institute universal testing before the ban can be lifted. "

You see now why I always ask what you will accept as proof when you demand it? Mike buried you in proof, yet you refuse to acknowledge it. You, SH, are an idiot. MRJ, this is your boy.

Rest your case, Sandhusker. All the proof you need is in ~SH~'s own response.

No wonder he is referred to as R-CALF's best recruiter.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
At the advice of council, I submit my case to the jury.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, has proof been submitted? Is SH a hyper biased fool incapable of basic reasoning? Doesn't his response to this just drip with credibility? Perhaps not? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Should we move on to his "Deception" arguement now? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandcheska: "But we did discuss the possibility of 100 percent testing,...' I see, SH, they only "discussed", they didn't "negotiate."

This is so typical of the deceptive manner in which R-CULT and it's blind followers operate.

You guys think 100% testing BEING MENTIONED AS AN ALTERNATIVE IN DISCUSIONS (ASSUMING THAT'S TRUE) trumps the fact that Japan is now accepting non tested beef????

How stupid can you be??

Ah...gee....ah....just disregard the fact that Japan is now importing non tested beef from Canada and the US, we know they still want tested beef because it was mentioned in previous discussions. Derrrrrr!

What a bunch of idiots!


OCM: "Rest your case, Sandhusker. All the proof you need is in ~SH~'s own response."

Here comes the mindless little support group again.

That's right OCM! I believe Japan's actions trumps words that were mentioned in previous discussions. I believe Japan's CURRENT actions speak louder than an outdated claim.

You keep supporting the allegations and following the R-CULT blamers ocm. That's right where you need to be.

If the R-CULT blamers become further seperated from the progressive NCBA producers, it will only serve to move this industry forward quicker. NCBA discussions will be less bogged down with mindless conspiracy theories and baseless allegations.

Who wants conspiracy theorists in their organization? I sure as hell don't!

I'll bet you are just jumping for joy at the thought of liberals like Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Boxer supporting you in your anti corporate, more government regulation, conspicy theory, "punish achievement - regulate prosperity" agenda.

Go you liberal, GO!

Watch as these liberals break the backs of the US cattleproducer but you will continue to find someone or something to blame incapable of understanding the consequences of your own shallow actions.

"USDA DOES NOT CARE ABOUT FOOD SAFETY"
"CANADIAN BEEF IS CONTAMINATED AND HIGH RISK DUE TO HAVING BSE IN THEIR NATIVE HERDS"

Baaaaaaaahhhhhh!
Baaaaaaaahhhhhh!

Along comes bse in our native herd and USDA and NCBA scramble to offset R-CULT's shallow import blaming lies.

"DON'T CONSUMERS HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW WHERE THEIR BEEF COMES FROM.....DON'T BURDEN ME WITH TRACEBACK"

Baaaaaaaaahhhhhh!
Baaaaaaaaahhhhhh!

Mindless sheep!


~SH~
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Yada, yada, yada ad nauseum. Have you finally accepted the FACT that the JAPANESE GOVERNMENT asked for testing, or would you rather ignore reality further?
 

Econ101

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
Sandcheska: "But we did discuss the possibility of 100 percent testing,...' I see, SH, they only "discussed", they didn't "negotiate."

This is so typical of the deceptive manner in which R-CULT and it's blind followers operate.

You guys think 100% testing BEING MENTIONED AS AN ALTERNATIVE IN DISCUSIONS (ASSUMING THAT'S TRUE) trumps the fact that Japan is now accepting non tested beef????

How stupid can you be??

Ah...gee....ah....just disregard the fact that Japan is now importing non tested beef from Canada and the US, we know they still want tested beef because it was mentioned in previous discussions. Derrrrrr!

What a bunch of idiots!


OCM: "Rest your case, Sandhusker. All the proof you need is in ~SH~'s own response."

Here comes the mindless little support group again.

That's right OCM! I believe Japan's actions trumps words that were mentioned in previous discussions. I believe Japan's CURRENT actions speak louder than an outdated claim.

You keep supporting the allegations and following the R-CULT blamers ocm. That's right where you need to be.

If the R-CULT blamers become further seperated from the progressive NCBA producers, it will only serve to move this industry forward quicker. NCBA discussions will be less bogged down with mindless conspiracy theories and baseless allegations.

Who wants conspiracy theorists in their organization? I sure as hell don't!

I'll bet you are just jumping for joy at the thought of liberals like Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Boxer supporting you in your anti corporate, more government regulation, conspicy theory, "punish achievement - regulate prosperity" agenda.

Go you liberal, GO!

Watch as these liberals break the backs of the US cattleproducer but you will continue to find someone or something to blame incapable of understanding the consequences of your own shallow actions.

"USDA DOES NOT CARE ABOUT FOOD SAFETY"
"CANADIAN BEEF IS CONTAMINATED AND HIGH RISK DUE TO HAVING BSE IN THEIR NATIVE HERDS"

Baaaaaaaahhhhhh!
Baaaaaaaahhhhhh!

Along comes bse in our native herd and USDA and NCBA scramble to offset R-CULT's shallow import blaming lies.

"DON'T CONSUMERS HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW WHERE THEIR BEEF COMES FROM.....DON'T BURDEN ME WITH TRACEBACK"

Baaaaaaaaahhhhhh!
Baaaaaaaaahhhhhh!

Mindless sheep!


~SH~

Sandhusker was right. You moved first to the deception argument.

SH, why can't you admit when you are wrong? Wanting to be too much like the USDA?
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
You notice what he does when he gets backed into a corner? Instead of being a man and saying, "OK, I guess I was wrong", he tries to change the conversation via strawmen and and attempts to steer the talk away from his tree. He knows he's really caught because he emptied his quiver of diversionary topics. He wants us to bite on NCBA vs R-CALF, conspiracies, Democrat control of Congress, defend being called a liberal, food safety, Canadian BSE, imports, or traceback. We take his bait on any of those and a new fire breaks out - and he's off the hook.

What do you think of your boy, MRJ?
 

ocm

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
That's right OCM! I believe Japan's actions trumps words that were mentioned in previous discussions. I believe Japan's CURRENT actions speak louder than an outdated claim.
~SH~

Look!! A kernel of truth. Japan's actions speak louder than words. They are not currently accepting untested beef except in token amounts.

If it were tested, they would accept it without finding all these excuses not to.

Japan's actions say they want tested beef.
 

mwj

Well-known member
ocm said:
~SH~ said:
That's right OCM! I believe Japan's actions trumps words that were mentioned in previous discussions. I believe Japan's CURRENT actions speak louder than an outdated claim.
~SH~

Look!! A kernel of truth. Japan's actions speak louder than words. They are not currently accepting untested beef except in token amounts.

If it were tested, they would accept it without finding all these excuses not to.

Japan's actions say they want tested beef.

Bring on the PROOF of how much TESTED beef they would take. You jump everyone else when you say they are GUESSING so bring the proof of your statement!
 

Econ101

Well-known member
mwj said:
ocm said:
~SH~ said:
That's right OCM! I believe Japan's actions trumps words that were mentioned in previous discussions. I believe Japan's CURRENT actions speak louder than an outdated claim.
~SH~

Look!! A kernel of truth. Japan's actions speak louder than words. They are not currently accepting untested beef except in token amounts.

If it were tested, they would accept it without finding all these excuses not to.

Japan's actions say they want tested beef.

Bring on the PROOF of how much TESTED beef they would take. You jump everyone else when you say they are GUESSING so bring the proof of your statement!


Bring proof of how much tested beef they wouldn't take!!!

You are getting a little ridiculous here, mwj.

If Creekstone had a deal to sell tested beef to a Japanese importer, why did the USDA kill the deal?

There is one big possibility here. The USDA could have been so lax on their BSE testing policy that they were afraid of being shown up by a company like Creekstone who could test more accurately. It wouldn't be the first time they were caught at it.

I still say that is hiding truth over exposing it.

We need to deal with truth, not hide from it, no matter what the results.

I still think packers need to pay the price for their selling MBM to feed dealers for cattle rations. They started the transmission of the problem.
 

blackjack

Well-known member
...i totally agree with sandhusker and ocm...if north american did not have their beef accepted by the japanese after it was tested...the govt ...cattle ass...and the packers would have to change the marketing plans ...right now as we speak every part of the industry says they are losing money...so where as it got us... here in canada the primary producer has had m-id and age verification rammed down our throats and at our expense... when is govt and the packers going to live up to their side of the bargain... it is time to find out whether the asians truly want our beef or not...test it...
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
mwj said:
ocm said:
~SH~ said:
That's right OCM! I believe Japan's actions trumps words that were mentioned in previous discussions. I believe Japan's CURRENT actions speak louder than an outdated claim.
~SH~

Look!! A kernel of truth. Japan's actions speak louder than words. They are not currently accepting untested beef except in token amounts.

If it were tested, they would accept it without finding all these excuses not to.

Japan's actions say they want tested beef.

Bring on the PROOF of how much TESTED beef they would take. You jump everyone else when you say they are GUESSING so bring the proof of your statement!

Only God knows how much tested beef they would take. The only way to find out for sure is to provide as much as they want. We know there is a market for tested beef, yet we can't tap it. The US government says sound science has to be a requirement for trade, even though the 20 month agreement they agreed to is not based on sound science, even though hormone free, kosher, Halal, etc... is not based on sound science and has always been allowed. Make a lot of sense, doesn't it?

We spend millions to open up export markets, and here we have one that we are forbidden from accessing - and it will cost us nothing extra and injures absolutely nobody physically or financially. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?

We're running a business that instead of asking the customer what they want, we say "you'll take it the way we want you to take it or we'll start a fight". Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?

Nearly three years later, we're still only trickling beef to Japan (and walking on egg shells lest they close it again) and none to Korea, yet we keep the same strategy. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?
 

Econ101

Well-known member
blackjack said:
...i totally agree with sandhusker and ocm...if north american did not have their beef accepted by the japanese after it was tested...the govt ...cattle ass...and the packers would have to change the marketing plans ...right now as we speak every part of the industry says they are losing money...so where as it got us... here in canada the primary producer has had m-id and age verification rammed down our throats and at our expense... when is govt and the packers going to live up to their side of the bargain... it is time to find out whether the asians truly want our beef or not...test it...

Japan is testing their own beef!!!! What if Creekstone was a Canadian company. Would the government up there stop bse testing so they couldn't sell Canadian beef to Japan?

None of us should be locked into a limited group of packers. It hurts our prices. Both our governments should stop catering to the group that seems to pay the most in political bribes and run a real ethical national policy.
 

mwj

Well-known member
''Weasel words'' the statement was made so provide the proof. You do not want opinion or guesses from others so bring the proof or try to weasel out of it :liar:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandcheska: "SH and Agman, you still insist Japan never asked for testing?"

I don't remember insisting that Japan never asked for testing, I remember saying you offered no proof that the Japanese government ever asked for testing.

CREATING "ILLUSIONS" AGAIN?
BEING "DECEPTIVE" AGAIN?

Bring my quote where I insisted, "Japan never asked for testing".

Now watch Sandcheska as he starts knocking over garbage cans again.


Sandcheska: "Have you finally accepted the FACT that the JAPANESE GOVERNMENT asked for testing, or would you rather ignore reality further?"

Have I accepted the fact that MIKE, not you, posted numerous quotes claiming that the Japanese government asked for testing? Yes!

Will I accept these "QUOTES" as proof that Japan asked for testing in 2004? Yes!

Thanks Mike and thanks for also pointing out that Japan eventually agreed with the OIE and phased out 100% testing themselves acknowledging that USDA was right not to cave to unjustified bse testing.

According to those articles, Japan waived their 100% testing requirement in May of 2005 yet you continue to blame a lack of exports to Japan because we didn't adopt 100% bse testing? LOL! Ahh....ok?


Sandcheska: "You notice what he does when he gets backed into a corner? Instead of being a man and saying, "OK, I guess I was wrong", he tries to change the conversation via strawmen and and attempts to steer the talk away from his tree."

Hahaha! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

I just hammered your ass on the value of 50/50 trim and the price of 70/30 and you danced around that like a circus chicken then you have the audacity to accuse me of diverting?

Here's where you started knocking over garbage cans by changing the conversation via strawmen and attempts to steer the talk away from his tree .....

Little Sandcheska: "Now you want to argue about the local price of burger? Whatever...... plug $1.25 into the deal and tell me that trim is worthless. Heck, use $1.00."

You accuse others of what you do best to ease your own filthy conscience.

How could I be wrong? I don't remember ever saying that Japan never asked for testing. I remember asking for proof that Japan asked for testing. Prove me wrong and bring my quote where I insisted "Japan never asked for 100% testing"!

You accuse me of setting up a strawman? Your strawman this time is insisting that I stated "Japan never asked for 100% testing" simply because I stated I had seen no proof where Japan ever asked for 100% testing.

You are getting worse and worse in your deception. You are nearing the pathetic level that Lying King has already surpassed.

In the thread where Mike posts all these quotes, I clearly asked you for proof that Japan asked for 100% testing I did not say in that thread that Japan never asked for 100% testing.

Until you can bring my quote that states...."Japan never asked for testing", YOU GOT NOTHING, AGAIN!


Whether or not Japan ever asked for 100% bse testing is irrelvant since.....

"Japan, the leading U.S. beef-export market, had been demanding 100 percent testing of all cattle for export, a position it has since altered.

Doesn't matter what they asked for in 2004, WHAT MATTERS IS WHAT THEY ARE ASKING FOR NOW?

What are they asking for now Sandcheska? SRM removal and age verification. Nothing is being mentioned about bse testing. Why is that?

Why did Japan phase out their own 100% bse testing program in May of 2005?

No little Sandcheska, the issue is not whether Japan ever asked for testing, the issue is whether Japan is still asking for testing. The answer to that is obvious based on their current actions and actions speak louder than words.


NEXT!



~SH~
 

Econ101

Well-known member
mwj said:
''Weasel words'' the statement was made so provide the proof. You do not want opinion or guesses from others so bring the proof or try to weasel out of it :liar:

Mwj, after all the posts Mike has put up about the subject, do you doubt they were asking for tested beef with our trade representatives and Sec. of Agriculture?

Please do not try to weasel out of the question.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandcheska: "Only God knows how much tested beef they would take. The only way to find out for sure is to provide as much as they want. We know there is a market for tested beef, yet we can't tap it."

Lying King: "Japan is testing their own beef!!!!"


According to the articles that Mike Posted, Japan phased out their own 100% bse testing program in May of 2005.

Yet you dumb asses continue to claim that Japan still wants testing.

Par for the R-CULT course!


~SH~
 
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