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"Background Check" Bill Goes Down 54-46

A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
While in office I issued more CCW permits than had ever been issued in all the county's previous history- and only turned down one person- because it was brought to my attention he was once caught up in a drug raid- and was again under investigation by the Drug Task Force....And he had the right to appeal to the District Judge- but he didn't...

The local sheriffs have the power to issue or deny CCW permits?


45-8-321. Permit to carry concealed weapon. (1) A county sheriff shall, within 60 days after the filing of an application, issue a permit to carry a concealed weapon to the applicant. The permit is valid for 4 years from the date of issuance. An applicant must be a United States citizen who is 18 years of age or older and who holds a valid Montana driver's license or other form of identification issued by the state that has a picture of the person identified. An applicant must have been a resident of the state for at least 6 months. Except as provided in subsection (2), this privilege may not be denied an applicant unless the applicant:
(a) is ineligible under Montana or federal law to own, possess, or receive a firearm;
(b) has been charged and is awaiting judgment in any state of a state or federal crime that is punishable by incarceration for 1 year or more;
(c) subject to the provisions of subsection (6), has been convicted in any state or federal court of:
(i) a crime punishable by more than 1 year of incarceration; or
(ii) regardless of the sentence that may be imposed, a crime that includes as an element of the crime an act, attempted act, or threat of intentional homicide, serious bodily harm, unlawful restraint, sexual abuse, or sexual intercourse or contact without consent;
(d) has been convicted under 45-8-327 or 45-8-328, unless the applicant has been pardoned or 5 years have elapsed since the date of the conviction;
(e) has a warrant of any state or the federal government out for the applicant's arrest;
(f) has been adjudicated in a criminal or civil proceeding in any state or federal court to be an unlawful user of an intoxicating substance and is under a court order of imprisonment or other incarceration, probation, suspended or deferred imposition of sentence, treatment or education, or other conditions of release or is otherwise under state supervision;
(g) has been adjudicated in a criminal or civil proceeding in any state or federal court to be mentally ill, mentally defective, or mentally disabled and is still subject to a disposition order of that court; or
(h) was dishonorably discharged from the United States armed forces.
(2) The sheriff may deny an applicant a permit to carry a concealed weapon if the sheriff has reasonable cause to believe that the applicant is mentally ill, mentally defective, or mentally disabled or otherwise may be a threat to the peace and good order of the community to the extent that the applicant should not be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. At the time an application is denied, the sheriff shall, unless the applicant is the subject of an active criminal investigation, give the applicant a written statement of the reasonable cause upon which the denial is based.
(3) An applicant for a permit under this section must, as a condition to issuance of the permit, be required by the sheriff to demonstrate familiarity with a firearm by:
(a) completion of a hunter education or safety course approved or conducted by the department of fish, wildlife, and parks or a similar agency of another state;
(b) completion of a firearms safety or training course approved or conducted by the department of fish, wildlife, and parks, a similar agency of another state, a national firearms association, a law enforcement agency, an institution of higher education, or an organization that uses instructors certified by a national firearms association;
(c) completion of a law enforcement firearms safety or training course offered to or required of public or private law enforcement personnel and conducted or approved by a law enforcement agency;
(d) possession of a license from another state to carry a firearm, concealed or otherwise, that is granted by that state upon completion of a course described in subsections (3)(a) through (3)(c); or
(e) evidence that the applicant, during military service, was found to be qualified to operate firearms, including handguns.
(4) A photocopy of a certificate of completion of a course described in subsection (3), an affidavit from the entity or instructor that conducted the course attesting to completion of the course, or a copy of any other document that attests to completion of the course and can be verified through contact with the entity or instructor that conducted the course creates a presumption that the applicant has completed a course described in subsection (3).
(5) If the sheriff and applicant agree, the requirement in subsection (3) of demonstrating familiarity with a firearm may be satisfied by the applicant's passing, to the satisfaction of the sheriff or of any person or entity to which the sheriff delegates authority to give the test, a physical test in which the applicant demonstrates the applicant's familiarity with a firearm.
(6) A person, except a person referred to in subsection (1)(c)(ii), who has been convicted of a felony and whose rights have been restored pursuant to Article II, section 28, of the Montana constitution is entitled to issuance of a concealed weapons permit if otherwise eligible.

Anyone denied a permit by the Sheriff for cause can then appeal to the District Court Judge...
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Even if he is ex L.E. :D :D :D but does that apply to a Barney Fife rubber band pistol as issued to a MT, sheriff of a county of less that 7000 population??With all the experience he claims to have and the arrests he has to have at least 200 years as a sheriff with 50 yrs. watching c span,,,50 yrs watching CSI,,,,,10 yrs of Quincy. including re runs of law and order.

EH oldtimer,,,,,,,how many yrs of watching the porn sites were paid for by the good folks of Valley County MT?????Even now one of your facebook accounts is PLAYBOY :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
An applicant must be a United States citizen who is 18 years of age or older and who holds a valid Montana driver's license or other form of identification issued by the state that has a picture of the person identified. An applicant must have been a resident of the state for at least 6 months. Except as provided in subsection (2), this privilege may not be denied an applicant unless the applicant:
(a) is ineligible under Montana or federal law to own, possess, or receive a firearm;
(b) has been charged and is awaiting judgment in any state of a state or federal crime that is punishable by incarceration for 1 year or more;
(c) subject to the provisions of subsection (6), has been convicted in any state or federal court of:
(i) a crime punishable by more than 1 year of incarceration; or
(ii) regardless of the sentence that may be imposed, a crime that includes as an element of the crime an act, attempted act, or threat of intentional homicide, serious bodily harm, unlawful restraint, sexual abuse, or sexual intercourse or contact without consent;
(d) has been convicted under 45-8-327 or 45-8-328, unless the applicant has been pardoned or 5 years have elapsed since the date of the conviction;
(e) has a warrant of any state or the federal government out for the applicant's arrest;
(f) has been adjudicated in a criminal or civil proceeding in any state or federal court to be an unlawful user of an intoxicating substance and is under a court order of imprisonment or other incarceration, probation, suspended or deferred imposition of sentence, treatment or education, or other conditions of release or is otherwise under state supervision;
(g) has been adjudicated in a criminal or civil proceeding in any state or federal court to be mentally ill, mentally defective, or mentally disabled and is still subject to a disposition order of that court; or
(h) was dishonorably discharged from the United States armed forces.

Interesting. And who verifies all of the above, the sheriff?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
An applicant must be a United States citizen who is 18 years of age or older and who holds a valid Montana driver's license or other form of identification issued by the state that has a picture of the person identified. An applicant must have been a resident of the state for at least 6 months. Except as provided in subsection (2), this privilege may not be denied an applicant unless the applicant:
(a) is ineligible under Montana or federal law to own, possess, or receive a firearm;
(b) has been charged and is awaiting judgment in any state of a state or federal crime that is punishable by incarceration for 1 year or more;
(c) subject to the provisions of subsection (6), has been convicted in any state or federal court of:
(i) a crime punishable by more than 1 year of incarceration; or
(ii) regardless of the sentence that may be imposed, a crime that includes as an element of the crime an act, attempted act, or threat of intentional homicide, serious bodily harm, unlawful restraint, sexual abuse, or sexual intercourse or contact without consent;
(d) has been convicted under 45-8-327 or 45-8-328, unless the applicant has been pardoned or 5 years have elapsed since the date of the conviction;
(e) has a warrant of any state or the federal government out for the applicant's arrest;
(f) has been adjudicated in a criminal or civil proceeding in any state or federal court to be an unlawful user of an intoxicating substance and is under a court order of imprisonment or other incarceration, probation, suspended or deferred imposition of sentence, treatment or education, or other conditions of release or is otherwise under state supervision;
(g) has been adjudicated in a criminal or civil proceeding in any state or federal court to be mentally ill, mentally defective, or mentally disabled and is still subject to a disposition order of that court; or
(h) was dishonorably discharged from the United States armed forces.

Interesting. And who verifies all of the above, the sheriff?

Yep...
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
I'm always in favor of the states making their own rules but that sure seems like a lot of data for the average Sheriff's office to verify. I'd have thought at least at the state level there'd be such a service with the Sheriff then issuing the CCW once approval was given.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
While in office I issued more CCW permits than had ever been issued in all the county's previous history-

they musn't have trusted county sheriff, to do his job :lol:

I was actually wondering how he verified all that info on those CCW permit requests AND busted skinheads, anarchists, drug dealers, etc AND met with the FBI, CIA, ATF, HNIC, etc AND ran his cattle. :lol:
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
While in office I issued more CCW permits than had ever been issued in all the county's previous history-

they musn't have trusted county sheriff, to do his job :lol:

I was actually wondering how he verified all that info on those CCW permit requests AND busted skinheads, anarchists, drug dealers, etc AND met with the FBI, CIA, ATF, HNIC, etc AND ran his cattle. :lol:

He had a desk set up at the watering hole.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
Whitewing said:
hypocritexposer said:
they musn't have trusted county sheriff, to do his job :lol:

I was actually wondering how he verified all that info on those CCW permit requests AND busted skinheads, anarchists, drug dealers, etc AND met with the FBI, CIA, ATF, HNIC, etc AND ran his cattle. :lol:

He had a desk set up at the watering hole.

Don't forget, he and John Wayne have a lot in common. They are both larger-than-life "get 'er done" type people; legends in their own eyes. :roll: John Wayne once said, "Never apologize, because that is a sign of weakness," so Oldtimer swallowed that hook, line, and sinker. Oh, but there is one major difference in these two men--John Wayne was a very staunch Conservative, and Oldtimer is anything but. :shock:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
I'm always in favor of the states making their own rules but that sure seems like a lot of data for the average Sheriff's office to verify. I'd have thought at least at the state level there'd be such a service with the Sheriff then issuing the CCW once approval was given.

Most City and County Law Enforcement Departments have access to all the state and federal computer banks of info- and often in the case of the smaller counties/towns the background check took only a short time as the folks had lived there all their lives- and you had known them all their life...

I truly am sorry that so many of you that put yourselves out as rural or ag seem so uninformed about and seem to have missed the enjoyment of a truly rural smalltown community...
 

jodywy

Well-known member
Wyoming we can carry concealed with a permit or instate this last year with out a permit.... gee haven't been all the blood shed that was predicted by the opponets
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Whitewing said:
I'm always in favor of the states making their own rules but that sure seems like a lot of data for the average Sheriff's office to verify. I'd have thought at least at the state level there'd be such a service with the Sheriff then issuing the CCW once approval was given.

Most City and County Law Enforcement Departments have access to all the state and federal computer banks of info- and often in the case of the smaller counties/towns the background check took only a short time as the folks had lived there all their lives- and you had known them all their life...

I truly am sorry that so many of you that put yourselves out as rural or ag seem so uninformed about and seem to have missed the enjoyment of a truly rural smalltown community...

I'm truly sorry to find that someone who was once a judge can make such sweeping generalizations about others who they know so little about.

For the record, I grew up in a town of 15,000 people, the family owned a farm, my dad worked in the rice industry all of his adult life. When our high school cranked up an FFA branch, I was its first prez.

I asked the questions for two main reasons. First off, I've never obtained a CCW permit in the US so I don't know anything about the process. Secondly, reading here and on other forums, I've learned that each state has widely varying rules. What's employed in Montana probably has NOTHING to do with how it's done in other states.

Thanks for the response. You may now return to your bigoted world.
 

Mike

Well-known member
The ones to feel sorry for are those that don't get to leave their rural lifestyles and have no idea what the real world is about.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Mike said:
The ones to feel sorry for are those that don't get to leave their rural lifestyles and have no idea what the real world is about.

The only thing that makes sense about his style is that someone who lies thinks everyone does it.

And in one breath he talks about enjoying a "truly rural smalltown environment" but in the next he'll tell about rounding up anarchists, drug dealers, murderers, and all sorts of other human vermin in his county. :roll:
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Must have been easy for you to verify since you knew them all their lives, no need to run a check on them,,,,more time to set in the waterhole...collect applications and accept the drink and the dropped $$$ that just accidently fell on the floor,,,lie to everyone about his self importance
The meeting with the FBI were actually with the FFA.....the ones with the CIA were actually the BOY SCOUTS...The ones with the State police were with the girl scouts, the ones with the Attorney's off were in reality with the womens club :wink: EH old timer?????
 
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