backward and/or upside down calves

[mrj]

Is there any information on causes or reasons for that presentation at birth?

We have had several in heifers this year. Lost a few. A few caesarians, and a few pulled at home. lose some, win some, it seems. Varying sizes, I believe.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the cows, just starting to calve.

mrj

 

[Silver]

Backwards is considered a normal presentation, but it can be a challenge. I pulled 5 or 6 this year so far, and all made it fine. I also pulled a calf with one front leg back, it was too far along to push back and straighten. Used a snare on the head and a chain on the available foot. Cow and calf came through fine. But these are the reasons we spend a lot of time with them at calving, it costs big dollars to arrive on the scene late.

 

[Faster horses]

That's why we chose to have smaller BW calves. Just sayin'....

 

[Sandhills boy]

Same here, lost a few with big calves and backwards. Had upside down, last night and cleanings first, never good thing. He was dead and took the C-section. We used the same bulls as last year with not near this many problem. But the good thing down to the last ten, with about 2 weeks left in the cycle.

 

[J.Johnson]

From what I understand of some research, there may be a genetic component to some cases of backwards calves. Has to do with rate of growth in the last trimester. If the incidence increased just this year, try and find out if the backwards calves have the same sire. You just may find your culprit.

Also, it has been my observation that cows held in dry lot towards the end of gestation have a few more malpositioned calves compared to cows that are out grazing and thus have to get moving to survive. Seems the activity of the cow helps get the calf repositioned at the correct time.

 

[Silver]

That's why we chose to have smaller BW calves. Just sayin'....

I have to admit you lost me on that one :???:

 

[Faster horses]

That's why we chose to have smaller BW calves. Just sayin'....

I have to admit you lost me on that one :???:

A cow can have a backwards calf with no assistance if it is smaller.
Upside down....now that's a different story. We never did babysit our cows, and they did just
fine. But to each their own. Not faulting the way anyone does things. We just found smaller
calves didn't require as much babysitting of the cows.

Hope that explains my comment.

 

[Silver]

That's why we chose to have smaller BW calves. Just sayin'....

I have to admit you lost me on that one :???:

A cow can have a backwards calf with no assistance if it is smaller.
Upside down....now that's a different story. We never did babysit our cows, and they did just
fine. But to each their own. Not faulting the way anyone does things. We just found smaller
calves didn't require as much babysitting of the cows.

Hope that explains my comment.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on some philosophy here. :wink:

 

[Faster horses]

A cow can have a backwards calf with no assistance if it is smaller.
Upside down....now that's a different story. We never did babysit our cows, and they did just
fine. But to each their own. Not faulting the way anyone does things. We just found smaller
calves didn't require as much babysitting of the cows.

Hope that explains my comment.[/quote]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on some philosophy here. :wink:[/quote]

Yup. It's okay. :nod: :lol2: We're good.

 

[mrj]

Thanks for sharing experiences and information. We are relatively new at 'intense attention' to heifers calving, so may have just not noticed when cows had backward calves, or they had got it worked out for themselves before we got into the fracas.

These are synchronized A I bred to small calf bulls, but think we have not kept records on the previous generations of the cows these heifers are out of, and that has to have some influence. We have kept them in a lot since calving began (a good two weeks ahead of due date). Haven't figured the percentage yet, but it hasn't been too bad, and probably have jumped the gun on pulling some of them so other work could be accomplished.

We calve cows in fairly big pastures and try to see them every day to take are of problems and keep them tagged, etc., but don't 'live with them' either.

Maybe we have not paid enough attention to that valid old cowboy observation: "sometimes, leaving a cow alone isn't the worst thing you can do for her".

mrj

 

[randiliana]

We have a lot of upside down calves. Some years up to 10%. This year we've only had 2 so far (out of 130 head calves so far). We watch things fairly closely, and rarely lose one. Backwards calves are not something we see a lot of (or at least if they are backwards, the cows must have them on their own) but usually we'll have 1 or 2 a year. I've occasionally seen the odd one born backwards, unassisted, as well.

We calve in a fairly small lot, but cows are kept out in a larger pasture and sorted about once a week to pull off the heaviest looking cows, so they don't tend to stay cooped up very long, before they calve. Whether it is just luck or genetics or some sort of environmental thing, I couldn't tell you. But we did have a dam and daughter both have a backwards calf one year. Never had issues from either one before or after that tho.....

One thing I have learned from our upside down calves is that, they are carried upside down until just shortly before birth when they rotate to the normal birthing position. So something is stopping this from happening. I personally don't think it is hugely related to BW as we've seen big and little ones upside down.

I would agree, with that quote, some of the time, but if you leave them alone too long, it can be the worst thing for the calf. Upside down, backwards (well breech anyways) and any other malpresentation that prevents the calf from entering the birth canal will delay labour, some times to the point where she won't go into it at all. And by the time you figure it out the calf is dead...