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BBC: Neo-Nazi threat in new Ukraine: NEWSNIGHT

Steve

Well-known member
the real and important message ignored is from 1:08 to 1:19

a whole 9 seconds on the real story..

this is what was said in that brief 9 seconds..
"The people who brought down the government were overwhelmingly ordinary Ukrainians, students, doctors, workers and even families, People who simply refused to back down."



in the rest he bunches together all the far right.. and makes sure he shows images that highlight his attention grabbing headline.

these groups are nationalists.. and many are radical.. but they are a small % of the Ukraine less then one 5,.. and the radicalist of them is even a smaller portion..

and since it is inflammatory it is the story..

he makes one mistake.. concerning the ministers.

he claims they are all part of the Svoboda

this is not factually true.. it is a popular point in all the Russian talking points.. but it is NOT true.

Dmitro Yarosh is commonly named and said to belong to the Svoboda.

this is not true. he is part of
In an interview, Yarosh has stated that Right Sector and Svoboda "have a lot of common positions when it comes to ideological questions," but that Right Sector “absolutely do[es]n’t accept certain racist things they [Svoboda] share.”

Kiev (AFP) - Ukraine's far-right Pravy Sektor movement on Friday announced its leader Dmytro Yarosh would make a presidential bid in elections scheduled for May 25.

he is a member of the right sector.. not the Svoboda.

while those groups share some common values. they do not share the extremist values..



the media is lumping all these rightwing groups together.

it is lazy.. sloppy journalism..

It appears that as the truth comes out the terms change.. over the last few days they have changed it to the Right Sector..

Which includes most of the right-wing people in the Ukraine,

some people do not like the movement.. and constantly highlight the most extreme elements of their right mainly because it fits their agenda..

others do not do enough research to see the facts..

and still others do not understand the breakaways.. former soviet block countries.

these countries were locked in time.. they were oppressed and they were not allowed to progress.. they sided with the wrong side in the beginning of WWII

given a choice between a historical enemy Russia.. and Germany
Russia was brutal to the Ukrainians so briefly they sided with Germany


Holodomor , "Extermination by hunger" was a man-made famine in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1932 and 1933 that killed up to 7.5 million Ukrainians.[6] During the famine, which is also known as the "Terror-Famine in Ukraine" and "Famine-Genocide in Ukraine

a short ten years alter they were in the middle between Germany and Russia's battle.

they sided with Germany.. and then as they realized how evil Germany was.. they tried to get out of the fight.

but there couldn't,.. they were stuck in the middle,.. and now 70 years later Russia and the media holds that against them.

and brands them all neo nazis..

we have forgiven Germany.. and it's people over time.. yet today.. the Ukraine sided with Hitler is all the some can say about the Ukraine.

who would you have sided with.. a charismatic movement that hid it's evil intent until it was to late for most to react.. or a country that had just committed genocide in you country? they just lost 7.5 million citizens to Russia.. 7.5 million

to put that into perspective.. 6 million Jews were killed during the holocaust.

the Ukraine had just lost 7.5 million friends fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters children grandchildren..


and now they found themselves between Russia and Germany war.. even if they wanted to sit it out the couldn't.. look at a map..

the reason they matter now is the same reason they mattered back then..

their country was the battle field in WWII, just as it was in WWI

and they suffered horribly during WWII , both sides tried to wipe them out.. brothers often found themselves on opposite sides..

you only hear that they sided with Germany.. but that is not the whole story.

The Nazi administrators of conquered Soviet territories made little attempt to exploit the population's possible dissatisfaction with Soviet political and economic policies. Instead, the Nazis preserved the collective-farm system, systematically carried out genocidal policies against Jews, and deported many Ukrainians to forced labour in Germany. In their active resistance to Nazi Germany, the Ukrainians comprised a significant share of the Red Army and its leadership as well as the underground and resistance movements. Total civilian losses during the War and German occupation in Ukraine are estimated at seven million, including over a million Jews shot and killed by the Einsatzgruppen.

they lost another 7 million in WWII ,.. including 1 million Jews..

at this point it is hard to put that into perspective..

7 million.. in the holocaust. they estimate that 6 million Jews were killed..

1 million of them were Ukrainians.

for me this is personnel.. I am 1/4 Ukrainian descent.

my great grandfathers and one of my grandfathers were those brothers.

and by the grace of GOD , they came to this country.


my other grandfather fought with and served in the US army during WWII , because he could speak fluent German he was not allowed to go over to fight.. until the very end when they needed translators.
He seldom spoke of it. but his medals tell a story in themselves..

I am very proud of his service.

so when I hear of them portrayed as .. siding with Germany.

history tells us the truth.

When Nazi Germany with its allies invaded the Soviet Union in 1941, many Ukrainians and Polish people, particularly in the west where they had experienced two years of harsh Soviet rule, initially regarded the Wehrmacht soldiers as liberators. Some Ukrainian activist of the national movement hoped for a momentum to establish an independent state of Ukraine. German policies initially gave some encouragement to such hopes through the vague promises of sovereign 'Greater Ukraine' as the Germans were trying to take advantage of anti-Soviet, anti-Ukrainian, anti-Polish, and anti-Jewish sentiments

A local Ukrainian auxiliary police was formed as well as Ukrainian SS division, 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Galicia (1st Ukrainian). However, after the initial period of a limited tolerance, the German policies soon abruptly changed and the Ukrainian national movement was brutally crushed.


Some Ukrainians, however, utterly resisted the Nazi onslaught from its start and a partisan movement immediately spread over the occupied territory. Some elements of the Ukrainian nationalist underground formed a Ukrainian Insurgent Army that fought both Soviet and Nazi forces. In some western regions of Ukraine, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army survived underground and continued the resistance against the Soviet authorities well into the 1950s, though many Ukrainian civilians were murdered in this conflict by both sides.

yet today some still start with and repeat.. sided with Germany..

this is what one poster on here posted recently
The Obama administration is choosing to align with a close World War II ally of the Nazis in these examples; Putin is not.

Cose ally my ass.. history shows they were not..

but some jackasses can't seem to read the real history.. instead relying on Russian propaganda for their views..


and they keep making it out this is about neo nazi and anti-Semitics..

but ignore that this country was under soviet rule for nearly 50 years after WWII

anti antisemitism in Russia has been extensively documented
.

Antisemitism in the Soviet Union

As early as 1907, Stalin wrote a letter differentiating between a "Jewish faction" and a "true Russian faction" in Bolshevism.

Stalin adopted antisemitic policies which were reinforced with his anti-Westernism.

and was officially condemned by the Soviet system, the Soviet Union and other communist states used the cover-term "anti-Zionism" for their antisemitic policies.

Antisemitism in the Soviet Union commenced openly as a campaign against the "rootless cosmopolitan"[2] (a euphemism for "Jew").

In this campaign against the "rootless cosmopolitan", many leading Jewish writers and artists were killed.[2] Terms like "rootless cosmopolitans", "bourgeois cosmopolitans", and "individuals devoid of nation or tribe" (all of which were codewords for Jews) appeared in newspapers.[13][note 3] The Soviet press accused the Jews of "groveling before the West," helping "American imperialism,"

Victimization of Jews in the USSR at the hands of the Nazis was denied, Jewish scholars were removed from the sciences and emigration rights were denied to Jews.[14] The Stalinist antisemitic campaign ultimately culminated in the Doctors' plot in 1953. According to Patai and Patai, the Doctors' plot was "clearly aimed at the total liquidation of Jewish cultural life."[2] Communist antisemitism under Stalin shared a common characteristic with Nazi and fascist antisemitism in its belief in "Jewish world conspiracy".[15]

After Stalin's death, the antisemitic Stalinist terror relented, but the fundamentals of Stalin's polices towards the Jews remained unchanged in the post-Stalinist USSR; only the methods changed

Ukraine under Russia would have been subjected to the same anti Semitic doctrine.

and many of these people were taught that doctrine growing up..

that still doesn't excuse it.. but it isn't the actions of all Ukrainians..

but to slander a nation based on Putin's propaganda and a very small minority of far right Ukrainians is just despicable.

even while pasting damning article after article.. he still keeps on at that.. even after i refuted virtually every point he made.. some line by line.

all the while ignoring the larger Russian anti-semitic violence in the Ukraine.
(I'll post that article later. )

yet some still cling to the already refuted neo nazi far right claims..

he could have show how this is shaping up.. he could have dug into and found the truth.. but he didn't.. he just kept posting and repeating the same crap..

I have saved "every" thread.. so if he thinks he can threaten me with slander bring it on.. cause I would love to face him in person on the court hose steps.

and that jackass is hypocritexposer..

and I am not going to mince words but I will tone down my response to him.




he is a real piece of ****.. he has insulted our country, the Ukraine and my family.

he can't see all the good decent people of the Ukraine who just want a free democracy..

and if he was in front of me now I would spit in his face..

yes I took it personally.. and I imagine if someone had pasted all the crap and made all the comments he did recently , he would have been upset as well

hypo you can kiss my ass you stupid ignorant jackass..

Steve






the real story is what was said in that brief 9 seconds.. from 1:08 to 1:19 is all but ignored.
"The people who brought down the government were overwhelmingly ordinary Ukrainians, students, doctors, workers and even families, People who simply refused to back down."

but sadly that is ignored by the useful idiots.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
In this video, you will see Dmitro Yarosh promote the Right Sector

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Inu_-0dcSU

If you were in oppostition to him, would you speak out?

The Russian position is also somewhat bolstered by the fact that Svoboda holds key posts in the interim government in Kiev, including that of deputy prime minister. Andriy Parubiy, the commander of the "Maidan self-defense," has been appointed the head of the National Security and Defense Council, and the leader of the Right Sector ultras, Dmitro Yarosh, is expected to become his deputy chairman. Svoboda controls the prosecutor general office and the ministries of ecology and agriculture.

Steve said:
I just disproved that crap in another thread..

it is a complete falsehood..

reposting the same Russian propaganda over and over again doesn't make it true..


I am starting to believe you are a commie

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69240&start=0
 

Steve

Well-known member
can't you read?

you claimed they were part of the Svoboda

I addressed that.. It is NOT true.

do you have a new claim? who cares... I certainly don't.

you can try to twist my words around all you want. but I have gone line by line and refuted every claim you have made..

you have no point .. you have nothing but a bunch of meaningless cut and paste..

If you had anything intelligent or worthwhile to say I am sure by now you would have said it..


nothing seems to satisfy you you keep coming back with the same carp..
responding to you is clearly for your sake it is a waste of time.

you are such an ignorant stupid idiot you can't even see basic facts..

I am done with you .. you have nothing to offer,.. no relevant point.. no relevant questions.. no relevant responses.

any response I make on your threads will only be for the benefit of this board and to show the TRUTH

cause you are not worth wasting time on.



read my letter.. especially the end..
 

Steve

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
Steve said:
can't you read?

you claimed they were part of the Svoboda

I addressed that.. It is NOT true.

I don't think you can read too well actually. Read the quote again

and the leader of the Right Sector ultras, Dmitro Yarosh,

SO WHAT !

whatever? who really cares?

I don't.. no one else has jumped in to defend your crap.. let alone comment on it..

if you have some ground shattering reason for slandering a nation then make it..
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Steve said:
hypocritexposer said:
Steve said:
can't you read?

I don't think you can read too well actually. Read the quote again

and the leader of the Right Sector ultras, Dmitro Yarosh,

SO WHAT !

whatever? who really cares?

I don't.. no one else has jumped in to defend your crap.. let alone comment on it..

if you have some ground shattering reason for slandering a nation then make it..
 
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