• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

BC Cattlemen and ID

Mike

Well-known member
By Todd Hamilton
Sep 28 2006


Northwest beef ranchers have been hit with the proverbial double-whammy.

Not only has a poor hay crop forced ranchers to pay nearly double to feed cattle, a new age verification program is compounding the problem.

After borders were closed to Canadian beef with the discovery of BSE in 2003, major beef markets, including Japan and the United States, required all cattle be age-verified. The new law, scheduled to be introduced in April 2007, has ranchers shaking their heads.

Henry Dyck, B.C. Livestock Producers, Vanderhoof Stockyard manager, said if farmers age verify their cattle they do not get a premium just less money.

“It doesn’t sound fair but that is what the bottom line of it is now,” Dyck said.

The program, as it stands now, requires the rancher to pay as much as $3 a head for tags, as well as, associated costs for the process.

Next year, Dyck said, ranchers who have not age-verified their cattle will not be able to sell them at the stockyard.

On Saturday, the Ministry of Agriculture was at the stockyards to assist with age verification for calves to be sold in the Presort Calf Sale. All calves sold in the sale must be age verified with a birth certificate.

“Things are moving along so fast now,” Dyck said.

For Ken Rose of Burns Lake, who was in Vanderhoof on Tuesday as he delivered 222 head to Hay River, Alta., the program is just another straw in an ever-increasing pile on the back of Northwest B.C. ranchers.

“Most of the people I’ve talked to think [age verification program] is crap,” Rose said. “The tags cost three freakin’ bucks apiece and it all seems to be coming out of the cattle producer.

See RANCHERS on Page A2

“There is a limit to what cost you can put on [a ranch].”

Diana McIlroy, who has 50 head of cattle, said time is not the issue about age verification that bothers her, but rather that the system relies on honour.

“Really they have no way of verifying the calves were born when you say it is,” McIlroy said.

She also noted that as of next year, she won’t be allowed to sell beef from her farm. McIlroy will have to ship her cattle for inspection before slaughter and the closest facilities are in Quesnel and McBride.

“If they were testing every animal for disease I’d understand,” she said. “But they are testing for marble and grade.”

McIlroy said the BSE outbreak has hit Canadian farmers hard. She said while farmers were going under, in the same year the three largest meat packers tripled their profits.

“If you are in farming these days it is not to make money,” she said. “It is a lifestyle.”

Chris Yates, who runs a small farm near Quick, said she is in favour of cattle herds being traceable, but she is disappointed that farmers are expected to do the extra work without incentives. She said there are ways in which farmers could be rewarded for their efforts, for example making companies pay for farmer’s age verified cattle data.

“The people buying the calves are not offering any extra money, if you don’t age verify calves you get less money,” Yates said. “Basically we have everything to lose and nothing to gain.”

She said age verification could have been used as a marketing tool, allowing farmers to profit from the situation. Yates said some slaughter houses, such as Cargill, are paying feed lots $30 per head for age verified cattle, yet none of this money goes into farmer’s hands. She said farmers should be on an equal playing field.

On top of the costs associated with the new age verification program, ranchers are being hit hard on feed costs forcing some like Rose to sell cow-calf pairs, calves and replacement heifers.

“It’s pretty dried out right now,” Rose said. “There’s lots of hay in Alberta, but little out here right now.”

Alberta ranchers are paying between $45 and $60 per ton for hay while Northwest ranchers are being hit with hay costs between $100 and $120. Those costs have forced ranchers like Rose, who is selling half his herd, to take what they can get.

“Feed is the big thing,” he said. “Nobody is keeping calves or replacement heifers up here. The cost for feed and grain is just too high.

“Most are [cutting back operations]. We’re not making any money on them anyway.”
 

bse-tester

Well-known member
Mike, it looks like we have a bummper crop of hay this year and in Northern Alberta, where I was for the past few weeks, I have never seen so many round bales. There are literally thousands to be seen. I was also within a mile or two of the infamous farm where the BSE saga started and the amount of hay in that area is staggering also!!
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
First ,whats the price of hay have to do with age verification. Second once the RFID tag is in the animal which it is put there for M'ID it costs nothing to age verify. If the calves not age verified are getting less then isn't that a premium for the ones that are?
 

Mike

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
First ,whats the price of hay have to do with age verification. Second once the RFID tag is in the animal which it is put there for M'ID it costs nothing to age verify. If the calves not age verified are getting less then isn't that a premium for the ones that are?

Yates said some slaughter houses, such as Cargill, are paying feed lots $30 per head for age verified cattle, yet none of this money goes into farmer’s hands.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
BMR, "If the calves not age verified are getting less then isn't that a premium for the ones that are"

I can't believe you said this! :shock: Premiums are supposed to be a "bonus". Please tell me that you're not in any way actively involved in any type of leadership position in a cattleman's organization.

Lets do some business. I"ll give you a premium for every black steer you have. I'll give you $500/calf for the blacks and $300 for the other colors. If you want a bigger premium, I'll give you $200 for the offs and $500 for the blacks. If you're interested in an exclusive contract, I'll give you a super premium and give you $50 for any non-blacks and the same $500 for the blacks.
 

Jason

Well-known member
Yates said some slaughter houses, such as Cargill, are paying feed lots $30 per head for age verified cattle, yet none of this money goes into farmer’s hands.

Considering many feedlots in Canada are operated by farmers, the money is directly in their hands.

Second, if they are getting a $30 premium don't you think they might bid a few cents a pound extra to get those age verified calves? 3 cents on a 6 weight is more than half the premium the feeder gets.
 

Bill

Well-known member
Yes, many feedlots in Canada are operated by farmers and the money is directly in their hands however most of them didn't calve those cows out or enter the data fotr age verification. Don't mix C/Calf producers with feedlot owners. It is the c/calf producer who incurs the cost (time) of entering the data for age verification. The only cow/calf producers getting paid a premium for age verification are those who retain ownership to slaughter.

There are currently very few if any c/calf producers recieving any premium at feeder sales for age verification and the Alberta gov't has just changed its stance on implementing age verification as previously scheduled.

It's a pretty cushy deal for feedlot owners who do get the extra $30 as the vast majority haven't paid a penny more for those calves. This needs to change.

A question I hope someone can answer with accuracy. Is all of the US beef currently going to Japan age verified?
 

Mike

Well-known member
Is all of the US beef currently going to Japan age verified?

I believe they are Bill. I was reading somewhere that the Japs didn't 100% trust the USDA's "Carcass Age Guessing Game" that was shoved on them.

"Beef Export Verification" can be studied on the USDA website. There are several different programs for all the different countries'.
 

Maple Leaf Angus

Well-known member
I am fully supportive of age verification. However, as a c/c operator, I have not yet seen that my or anyone else's RFID'ed calves bring any premium at the salesbarn.

My idea of an equitable return for the work and expense would be to have a per head fee added to the sale price if the calves are age verified. The fee would be set at half of the "premium" that is being offered by the packers. The feedlot would still be getting paid a significant bonus for doing little, if any, extra work.

What do you think?
 

Bill

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Bill, "Is all of the US beef currently going to Japan age verified?"

From what I understand, it is via indentation.
Indentation? :???:

Sorry I couldn't use R-Calf as a source of any useful information on this but I suppose they were busy with other things so we'll have to go with what NCBA provides.

http://www.cattle-fax.com/special/files/beef-export-information.doc.

What information is necessary to prove the age of my cattle to have them considered for export to Japan?

For the beef from your cattle to be eligible for the BEV for Japan, you must do one of the following:

 Identify individual animals with a unique identification number that is associated with the animal’s actual date of birth, is traceable back to ranch records and able to accompany the animal through the process; or

 Individually identify all animals within a calving group, and document the actual date of birth of the first calf born in the contemporary group. (The age of all other contemporaries will be derived from the oldest calf in the group.) In the case of group age verification, breeding dates can serve as a supplementary method for verifying the age of the oldest calf in the group; or

 Participate in an approved USDA QSA Program or Process Verified Program (PVP) for age verification, and provide the program-specific identification and age verification requirements.

Documentation must be sufficient to verify the birthdates of conforming animals. Documentation may include existing procedures, forms, and records such as standard operating procedures, health records, feed records, shipping records, purchase records, documentation for identification of animals, and/or breeding methods and seasons. If you choose to participate in an independent QSA, you will be required to provide one of the above methods of age verification as well as any additional requirements of that program.

4. What kind of identification do I need to use?

The type of ID is dependent upon the Program in which you participate. If you are in an “umbrella” Program, then you must use the type of ID required by the company. If you have your own Program, then you determine the type of ID. Identification must be such that animals can be traced back to legitimate birth records. Identification must meet the requirements of the specified product requirements for the specific export program.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Bill said:
Sandhusker said:
Bill, "Is all of the US beef currently going to Japan age verified?"

From what I understand, it is via indentation.
Indentation? :???:

Sorry I couldn't use R-Calf as a source of any useful information on this but I suppose they were busy with other things so we'll have to go with what NCBA provides.

http://www.cattle-fax.com/special/files/beef-export-information.doc.

What information is necessary to prove the age of my cattle to have them considered for export to Japan?

For the beef from your cattle to be eligible for the BEV for Japan, you must do one of the following:

 Identify individual animals with a unique identification number that is associated with the animal’s actual date of birth, is traceable back to ranch records and able to accompany the animal through the process; or

 Individually identify all animals within a calving group, and document the actual date of birth of the first calf born in the contemporary group. (The age of all other contemporaries will be derived from the oldest calf in the group.) In the case of group age verification, breeding dates can serve as a supplementary method for verifying the age of the oldest calf in the group; or

 Participate in an approved USDA QSA Program or Process Verified Program (PVP) for age verification, and provide the program-specific identification and age verification requirements.

Documentation must be sufficient to verify the birthdates of conforming animals. Documentation may include existing procedures, forms, and records such as standard operating procedures, health records, feed records, shipping records, purchase records, documentation for identification of animals, and/or breeding methods and seasons. If you choose to participate in an independent QSA, you will be required to provide one of the above methods of age verification as well as any additional requirements of that program.

4. What kind of identification do I need to use?

The type of ID is dependent upon the Program in which you participate. If you are in an “umbrella” Program, then you must use the type of ID required by the company. If you have your own Program, then you determine the type of ID. Identification must be such that animals can be traced back to legitimate birth records. Identification must meet the requirements of the specified product requirements for the specific export program.

Fine, use NCBA. However, I see no mention of A40 age specifications, and that is how most of the beef sent to Japan so far qualified.
 

mrj

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Bill, "Is all of the US beef currently going to Japan age verified?"

From what I understand, it is via indentation.


Isn't the term 'dentition', which my dictionary identifies as the "the kind and number of teeth characteristic of man and other animals and the manner in which they are arranged in the jaws".

I believe there is something about the age at which certain teeth emerge and fall out as well, when used for determining age of cattle.

Dentition seems to be the best available means to estimate age in cattle, from what I've read/heard, and yet it isn't perfect.

MRJ
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
MRJ said:
Sandhusker said:
Bill, "Is all of the US beef currently going to Japan age verified?"

From what I understand, it is via indentation.


Isn't the term 'dentition', which my dictionary identifies as the "the kind and number of teeth characteristic of man and other animals and the manner in which they are arranged in the jaws".

I believe there is something about the age at which certain teeth emerge and fall out as well, when used for determining age of cattle.

Dentition seems to be the best available means to estimate age in cattle, from what I've read/heard, and yet it isn't perfect.

MRJ

Yep, you're right.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
MRJ said:
Sandhusker said:
Bill, "Is all of the US beef currently going to Japan age verified?"

From what I understand, it is via indentation.


Isn't the term 'dentition', which my dictionary identifies as the "the kind and number of teeth characteristic of man and other animals and the manner in which they are arranged in the jaws".

I believe there is something about the age at which certain teeth emerge and fall out as well, when used for determining age of cattle.

Dentition seems to be the best available means to estimate age in cattle, from what I've read/heard, and yet it isn't perfect.

MRJ

Yep, you're right.

I doubt Dentition will be used for any market that is 20 months and under because dentition is not accurate on younger cattle. Dentition is used on 30 months because it has to do with the eruption of certain teeth, But it has also caused problems with that age as we had guys with birth records to prove the age but the teeth had erupted so they were put into question. The CFIA agreed the the birth records trump dentition in those cases.


Taken from the Embassy of the United States JAPAN Web page

Since record based age verification alone would allow only extremely limited quantities of trade to resume, a second form of age verification is needed. Traditional physiological methods of age verification, such as dentition, are not valid in this case because of their inaccuracy at the 20-month age level. Therefore, the US proposed, and it was agreed, that grading and quality attributes will be used for verifying physiological age of carcasses 20 months of age or younger. This carcass grading system, once it objectively demonstrates that it can verify physiological age to evaluate carcasses to be 20 months of age or younger, will be used as a method to satisfy the BEV program requirement.
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
So you guys are telling me that calves that have been castrated and dehorned if nessecary without frozen ears and feet that sell in the top cut pens don't get a premium to the other calves. Gee you don't sell at Roys sale barn. Calves that aren't age verified will go to the second cut pens.
Age verification is another management decision just like breeds and the processing that has been done to the calf. Ask Soapweed if he would get the same for his calves if he didn't put the effort that he does into them.
Northern rancher was just trying to scource some Non-implanted calves bet a rancher could work the ageverification in on the deal. Yes some feeders have have gotten premiums for their AV'd cattle will they be looking for more?

Say sandhusker do you pay the same price for all the feeders you buy? I don't .
 
Top