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Because I was asked! Obama/Islam

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Hussein Comes Out Of The Closet
Posted on February 7th, 2009 by David-Crockett

The Obama File published:

Taqqiya MuslimThe Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), part of the Muslim Brotherhood’s Palestine Committee, welcomed Obama’s use of a quote from Islam’s Prophet Muhammad in his remarks at Thursday’s National Prayer Breakfast.

In his prepared remarks, Obama quoted the prophetic tradition, or “hadith,” which states: “None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself. There is no religion whose central tenet is hate. There is no God who condones taking the life of an innocent human being.”

Robert Spencer takes apart this taqiyya, writing:

Arguably, that is true: there is no religion whose central tenet is hate: there is no religion that teaches that the most important thing one must do in this world is hate someone or something else. But certainly the religion that comes closest to teaching such a thing is Islam. If the Qur’an doesn’t teach that Muslims should hate unbelievers, certainly it teaches that they should be harsh with them, consider them the worst of all created beings, not become friends with them, and, ultimately, wage war against and kill or subjugate them:

“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.” — Qur’an 5:51

“O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).” — Qur’an 9:123

“Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.” — Qur’an 98:6

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” — Qur’an 9:29

I'm surprised Reader, after your study, you did not pick this up! Me as a "non-believer", I picked it up in my "Redneck" way!

Don't be fooled people, there are people who don't want you to believe this!
 

Steve

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
George W Bush quoting the Koran shortly after 9/11 saying basically the same thing as Obama quote you cite:

"The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.
The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war."

Remarks at the Islamic Center, Washington, D.C. (September 17, 2001)

and GW was an idiot and always wrong... especially on that issue..


If you want to see bitterness it can be found in almost every corner of the US, but to see abundant hatred, you would have to travel to the middle east.. where it is displayed openly.
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
George W Bush quoting the Koran shortly after 9/11 saying basically the same thing as Obama quote you cite:

"The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.
The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war."

Remarks at the Islamic Center, Washington, D.C. (September 17, 2001)

The Islamic Centre is full of schitte and doing its best to prevent the world from realizing the truth about the intent of Islam.

I asked the local Imam about this yesterday while I was in Syria on a cross border patrol.

According to him Islam is not "peace" - it is "submission"

You need to sit down and read the book "Because They Hate' before you believe anything from a centre that supports terrorism through omission - written by a woman - Brigette Gabriel.

It tells the story of Lebanon - and yes - you could be the next Lebanon.

It all boils down to - submit or die.

I have come to realize that there are no radical muslims - thay are all the same - as they will all do as they are told - therefore they all are radical - even those who do nothing to stop their bretheren. In fact they truly hope you will believe the stories of their peace loving brothers - it makes the meeting of their goals easier.

They are also quite willing - and allowed - to lie about their intentions as their koran gives them permisssion to do so.

It is not about terrorism - no matter what anyone tells you - it is about religion.

Islam has only one desire - make you submit to their belief or die. It is that simple and therefore that difficult for many in North America to believe.

Come over here and see for yourself - not interested in what happened twenty years ago with a friend in Egypt or a companion in some other mid-east country - today there is a definite plan to out breed and take over.

Islam is submission - not peace.

While I talked to a man herding some gosts near a village in that same country yesterday, his wife got down on her knees and placed her face in the ground at her husbands feet so she could not see my face - and I could not see her eyes. If she had not done this he would have made her.

Yup - great religion and great society.

A society that once was a world leader in mathematics, sciences, astronomy, medicine - all gone back to the dark ages in the name of religion - and it is still like that in the vast majority of this part of the world.

Any modern day advancements seem to all be based upon future war - weapons and a successful space program in Iran can be expected to be quite troublesome in the near future.

They are winning - through numbers alone. And the scariest part is - they have a lot of folks in the U.S. of A. that actually believe islam is a peaceful religion.

I guess no one has watched what happened in France and Germany and England and Denmank.

Beware - it is coming to a theatre near you - and perhaps sooner than you think - all because so many - in your own country - would try to make you believe otherwise.

All in the name of political correctness.

BC
 

burnt

Well-known member
Broke Cowboy said:
The Islamic Centre is . . . . . . . . to make you believe otherwise.

All in the name of political correctness.

BC



Well said, B.C.

But something that many do not want to hear. By its very nature, Islam will never be satisfied or at peace.
 

don

Well-known member
why is it the religions that sprung out of the middle east can't coexist with other religions? seems more like politics than true religion - but then organized religion that isn't concentrated on the individual is just politics.
 

burnt

Well-known member
jigs said:
it is time to play Cowboys and Muslims.....

Well Jigs, history would tell you that the Crusades did not do the West much good in the long run and what tells you that it would turn out differently if we were to start another "crusade"? In fact, there is much support for the theory that the Arabs were permanently embittered against "Christianity" because of the Crusades, lending greater impetus to their misguided deeds of today.

You just can't kill ideology with bullets. Military action can buy time and space, but it cannot bring lasting peace.

Go read what Jesus said.
 

badaxemoo

Well-known member
Broke Cowboy said:
reader (the Second) said:
George W Bush quoting the Koran shortly after 9/11 saying basically the same thing as Obama quote you cite:

"The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.
The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war."

Remarks at the Islamic Center, Washington, D.C. (September 17, 2001)

The Islamic Centre is full of schitte and doing its best to prevent the world from realizing the truth about the intent of Islam.

I asked the local Imam about this yesterday while I was in Syria on a cross border patrol.

According to him Islam is not "peace" - it is "submission"

You need to sit down and read the book "Because They Hate' before you believe anything from a centre that supports terrorism through omission - written by a woman - Brigette Gabriel.

It tells the story of Lebanon - and yes - you could be the next Lebanon.

It all boils down to - submit or die.

I have come to realize that there are no radical muslims - thay are all the same - as they will all do as they are told - therefore they all are radical - even those who do nothing to stop their bretheren. In fact they truly hope you will believe the stories of their peace loving brothers - it makes the meeting of their goals easier.

They are also quite willing - and allowed - to lie about their intentions as their koran gives them permisssion to do so.

It is not about terrorism - no matter what anyone tells you - it is about religion.

Islam has only one desire - make you submit to their belief or die. It is that simple and therefore that difficult for many in North America to believe.

Come over here and see for yourself - not interested in what happened twenty years ago with a friend in Egypt or a companion in some other mid-east country - today there is a definite plan to out breed and take over.

Islam is submission - not peace.

While I talked to a man herding some gosts near a village in that same country yesterday, his wife got down on her knees and placed her face in the ground at her husbands feet so she could not see my face - and I could not see her eyes. If she had not done this he would have made her.

Yup - great religion and great society.

A society that once was a world leader in mathematics, sciences, astronomy, medicine - all gone back to the dark ages in the name of religion - and it is still like that in the vast majority of this part of the world.

Any modern day advancements seem to all be based upon future war - weapons and a successful space program in Iran can be expected to be quite troublesome in the near future.

They are winning - through numbers alone. And the scariest part is - they have a lot of folks in the U.S. of A. that actually believe islam is a peaceful religion.

I guess no one has watched what happened in France and Germany and England and Denmank.

Beware - it is coming to a theatre near you - and perhaps sooner than you think - all because so many - in your own country - would try to make you believe otherwise.

All in the name of political correctness.

BC

So, one-sixth of Earth's population are either self-avowed radical extremists or they are pretending to be something else than they actually are?

You are so full of bullshit it must be coming out your ears.
 

burnt

Well-known member
badaxemoo said:
Broke Cowboy said:
reader (the Second) said:
George W Bush quoting the Koran shortly after 9/11 saying basically the same thing as Obama quote you cite:

The Islamic Centre is full of schitte and doing its best to prevent the world from realizing the truth about the intent of Islam.

I asked the local Imam about this yesterday while I was in Syria on a cross border patrol.

According to him Islam is not "peace" - it is "submission"

You need to sit down and read the book "Because They Hate' before you believe anything from a centre that supports terrorism through omission - written by a woman - Brigette Gabriel.

It tells the story of Lebanon - and yes - you could be the next Lebanon.

It all boils down to - submit or die.

I have come to realize that there are no radical muslims - thay are all the same - as they will all do as they are told - therefore they all are radical - even those who do nothing to stop their bretheren. In fact they truly hope you will believe the stories of their peace loving brothers - it makes the meeting of their goals easier.

They are also quite willing - and allowed - to lie about their intentions as their koran gives them permisssion to do so.

It is not about terrorism - no matter what anyone tells you - it is about religion.

Islam has only one desire - make you submit to their belief or die. It is that simple and therefore that difficult for many in North America to believe.

Come over here and see for yourself - not interested in what happened twenty years ago with a friend in Egypt or a companion in some other mid-east country - today there is a definite plan to out breed and take over.

Islam is submission - not peace.

While I talked to a man herding some gosts near a village in that same country yesterday, his wife got down on her knees and placed her face in the ground at her husbands feet so she could not see my face - and I could not see her eyes. If she had not done this he would have made her.

Yup - great religion and great society.

A society that once was a world leader in mathematics, sciences, astronomy, medicine - all gone back to the dark ages in the name of religion - and it is still like that in the vast majority of this part of the world.

Any modern day advancements seem to all be based upon future war - weapons and a successful space program in Iran can be expected to be quite troublesome in the near future.

They are winning - through numbers alone. And the scariest part is - they have a lot of folks in the U.S. of A. that actually believe islam is a peaceful religion.

I guess no one has watched what happened in France and Germany and England and Denmank.

Beware - it is coming to a theatre near you - and perhaps sooner than you think - all because so many - in your own country - would try to make you believe otherwise.

All in the name of political correctness.

BC

So, one-sixth of Earth's population are either self-avowed radical extremists or they are pretending to be something else than they actually are?

You are so full of BS it must be coming out your ears.

Where did B.C. make that claim? The fact is that most Muslims take a secular approach in their faith rather than extremism, but are ALL potential candidates for extremism. Don't think for a moment that they will ever put their "infidel" next door neighbour ahead of what their Imam tells them, when push comes to shove.

If you believe otherwise, put your money where your mouth is and move into an Islamic neighbourhood and find out for yourself before you call someone who daily puts his life on the line a liar.

I can't believe you just did that.
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
badaxemoo said:
So, one-sixth of Earth's population are either self-avowed radical extremists or they are pretending to be something else than they actually are?

You are so full of BS it must be coming out your ears.

Perhaps you are one of the believers - or the liars - but more likely just unwilling to see what is happening all through Europe and soon in your own back yard.

I do not attack you - I stated what I see - what I saw and what I was told yesterday by am man who would be quite happy to see me in the ground.

You do not have to like it - and I do not have to like it - but islam hates you - and me - why not take me up on my challenge and read the book?

My eyes are not brown, they are blue - and the last time I checked my ears were quite clear even though they will ring for the rest of my life from an RPG sent my way by a fan of Christianity.

My best regards

BC
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
And BC, so you know, I'm as afraid as you are of what is happening in England, France, and even Germany. I believe we'll see France go Muslim and England afterwards. Spain and Italy have their own issues too.

And I have been told I am full of the brown stuff - war is a strong possibility in that part of the world.

We, the West, stood by in so many ways and allowed this virulent strain of Islam to be taught to impressionable children and allowed the clerics and their followers to preach hatred and violence right in the heart of London and Paris.

And you have allowed them in your own country. And for sure the entire continent of Australia is terrified of their northern neighbour.

Canada is not far behind the U.S. of A.

And now I watch television in the middle east that is focused on children under the age of 10 and basically teaches them that it is good to become a martyr - imagine teaching your children to WANT to die killing someone of another faith. Pretty standard in some parts around here.

And I see families reaping the financial rewards of sending one of their kids off to be a martyr.


But even so, you are incorrect about this being about Islam as a whole.

Here we disagree and always will

How many Muslims do you know well?

What if I know more than you? And if I know less? Does it matter? I live here now. Not thirty years ago.

How many years have you lived with them or studied the history of Islam?

The history is no longer important - and that is a big point - they are leaving it for violence - that is where YOU are out of touch.

What has to happen is the West and the Muslim world itself to stand up and reject this form of Islam and to substitute more worthy aspirations for young generations. And for Arabic television to control itself and not foment hatred across the Muslim world.

Never happen - too late - to the point that television is ingrained to teach the kids to hate.

Islam cannot - because it is islam - the west cannot because there are too many bad guys within the borders.


One of the things the U.S. invested in was an alternative satellite TV network although I don't think it has been successful but education and yes propaganda AND development is the way to fight this.

No one watches it - in fact I do not think it is even running any more.

The Soviet Empire fell as much because of the influence of blue jeans and rock n roll as the crazy spending on wars that the USSR did.

Well, the Russians are back here in a big way - with new weapons, weapon systems, advisors and it is making the balance of power a bit uneasy once again.
 

burnt

Well-known member
reader, from my exposure (however limited) to Islam AND ITS ROOTS, and what I have read of it, I think you allow far too much leniency to the fundamentals of the Muslim system of belief. I do agree that it is a "vision" that the impressionable can and will catch.

I know and support a Christian worker in London who spends his days debating Islamists on Speaker's Corner. He has recounted to us details of, and stories about some of his encounters that can make your hair stand on end. Clearly, his effectiveness in publicly countering their arguments makes him a target of Muslim hatred. Danger is always present for him and he has experienced divine intervention on his behalf in stunning ways.

This is what one man is doing to stall the Islamic movement. He said "We cannot stop the radicals, but we must do all we can to reach the secular Muslims with the Gospel message, show them the error of Islam, and dissuade them from joining with the radicals."

As for the extremists, maybe that's where B.C. and his compatriots have an unpleasant job to do. May God be with them.
 

jigs

Well-known member
badaxemoo said:
jigs said:
it is time to play Cowboys and Muslims.....

In that case, please, please, PLEASE, Jigs, play the role of George Custer.

I would rather die fighting the terrorist islamic freaks, that live like a babbling fool as you seem to want to do.

America will slowly be invaded and undermined like Europe is currently having happen. then when the sh!t hits the fan, I will be ready to defend what is mine...you just go ahead and try to "negotiate" your freedom...they will either kill you or enslave you. it is thier religious law.
 

badaxemoo

Well-known member
burnt said:
Where did B.C. make that claim? The fact is that most Muslims take a secular approach in their faith rather than extremism, but are ALL potential candidates for extremism. Don't think for a moment that they will ever put their "infidel" next door neighbour ahead of what their Imam tells them, when push comes to shove.

If you believe otherwise, put your money where your mouth is and move into an Islamic neighbourhood and find out for yourself before you call someone who daily puts his life on the line a liar.

I can't believe you just did that.


This would seem to imply that all Muslims are radicals:

broke cowboy writes:
I have come to realize that there are no radical muslims - thay are all the same - as they will all do as they are told - therefore they all are radical - even those who do nothing to stop their bretheren. In fact they truly hope you will believe the stories of their peace loving brothers - it makes the meeting of their goals easier. I have come to realize that there are no radical muslims - thay are all the same - as they will all do as they are told - therefore they all are radical - even those who do nothing to stop their bretheren. In fact they truly hope you will believe the stories of their peace loving brothers - it makes the meeting of their goals easier.

I have no time for Islamic extremists. I have no time for Christian fundamentalist extremists. I wish Fred Phelps and Osama bin Laden would drop dead simultaneously.

I agree with reader. I am concerned about the rise of Islamic extremism in Western Europe. But this type of inaccurate, broad-brushed commentary just provides more fodder for the fanatics.

I haven't lived in an Islamic country. But my brother lived in a Muslim country in North Africa. The people in his village were all practicing Muslims. From what I saw and from what he tells me, they were gracious and welcoming people who would give the shirt off their back even though it might be their only one.

I wouldn't live in Iraq. But I also wouldn't have lived in Bosnia during the war there. I would gladly live in any number of stable Muslim countries.

They didn't want to attack America. Many dreamed of going to America.

This is the same school of distortion that the radical Imams use to make the West out to be a bunch of debaucherous heathens bent only on stealing their resources.

And I'm not going to defer to someone simply because they are in the military. I'm sure he is doing his job, but that doesn't necessarily mean he has accurate insights into Islam as a whole.
 

burnt

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
. . . . It's also necessary to counter this threat with assistance, development, education, diplomacy, alliances. . . . .

It is interesting that you should suggest this because essentially you are saying that the West should do for the Muslims what they will not do for themselves. If Muslims really cared about other Muslims, they have plenty of resources to care for their own. WHere do you think our petro$ are going?

reader (the Second) said:
This has nothing to do with fundamental Islam but with how the Israelis treat this annexed area and it makes the inhabitants more hostile and dangerous.'quote] (Sorry, I don't always know how to get this quote thingy right)

If we look a little deeper than what the MSM tells us, we would question where Hamas spends the money it gets. It costs a lot to keep up the military (or whatever you want to call it) effort that they carry out.

It has been said that the interests of the civilians in Gaza would be much better served if Hamas would have spent their (ill-gotten) money on food and medical facilities rather than on rockets and guns. Can you argue against that?

While I cannot condone all the actions of Israel, I don't think that the Israeli's would have gone to the extreme, as they recently did, had the Arabs antagonists not given them cause. Human nature is really not all that pretty.

Heck, look at how we "civilized" North Americans treat each other over some stupid website arguments and we don't even use guns and rockets!!! Thank goodness!! :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
You need to study the recent history of Lebanon. There was no Lebanon, there was the Ottoman Empire and Syria and Lebanon were a culturally similar large component of the Ottoman Empire.

Actually Lebanon was created by the French in the 1920's and became a recognized country in 1943. The president was christian, the prime minister was sunni and the speaker a shia.

I hope you will forgive the copy and paste - but it says it all and says it well:

In 1970, large numbers of PLO fighters expelled from Jordan sought refuge in Lebanon leading to further destabilisation. In 1975/1976 there was a civil war which pitted a coalition of Christian groups against the joint forces of the PLO, left-wing Druze and Muslim militias. It ended in Syrian intervention, at the Lebanese government's request, initially to prevent a Christian defeat. The presence of the Syrian forces was subsequently authorised by an Arab League mandate as the 'Arab Deterrent Force'. But despite its presence, intermittent fighting continued, and between 1975 and 1982 an estimated 10% of the Lebanese population was killed or wounded.

In 1982, the PLO presence in Lebanon led to an Israeli invasion. A multinational Force of US, French and Italian contingents was deployed in Beirut after the Israeli siege of the city, to supervise the evacuation of the PLO. It returned in September 1982 after the assassination of Bashir Gemayel and the subsequent massacres by the pro-Israeli Christian Phalange militia in the Palestinian camps of Sabra and Chatila. A British contingent (of approximately 100) joined the multinational Force in February 1983. Following deterioration in the security situation, the multinational Force was withdrawn in the spring of 1984.


In May 1984 a Syrian-supported Government of National Unity was formed. Negotiations at Syrian insistence between the three main militia/political groups (AMAL, PSP and the Christian Lebanese Forces) on political reforms in Lebanon led to the Tripartite Accord of 1985. It involved progress towards the total deconfessionalisation of the political system within a decade and consolidation of privileged Syrian/Lebanese relations. Tension within the Christian community over the Accord led to the Lebanese Forces coup of January 1986 in which the pro-Accord leaders of the LF were displaced.

Heavy fighting in February 1987 in West Beirut between AMAL and a coalition of left-wing forces headed by the Druze militia led to renewed Syrian military intervention. Other clashes were mainly between AMAL and the Palestinians.

In September 1988 Lebanon slipped further into crisis when the Parliament failed to elect a successor to President Gemayel as a result of differences between the Christians and the Muslims and Syrians. Gemayel's final act was to appoint the Maronite commander of the Lebanese Armed Forces, General Aoun, as Prime Minister. The legitimacy of this government was disputed by the acting Prime Minister of the previous administration, Selim Hoss (a Sunni). This led to virtual partition along sectarian lines. Hoss's government was based in West Beirut, while Aoun occupied the Presidential Palace at Baabda in the East.

The rivalry erupted into fighting in March 1989 following Aoun's blockade of the Muslim ports in South Beirut. There was heavy shelling of the Christian enclave by Syrian forces, returned by Aoun's troops. During the fighting more than 800 were killed.

The Arab League Summit of May 1989 led to the formation of a three man committee of the Kings of Morocco and Saudi Arabia and the President of Algeria, charged with solving the crisis. On 16 September 1989 they issued a seven-point peace plan for Lebanon. This was accepted by both Hoss and Aoun, as well as by the Syrians. As a result, a ceasefire was established, the ports and airports were re-opened and the refugees began to return.

In September 1989, the Lebanese Parliament was convened in Taif, Saudi Arabia, which agreed a Charter for National Reconciliation, known as the Taif Accord. This included an outline timetable for Syrian withdrawal from Lebanon, initially from Beirut, and a formula for the deconfessionalisation of the Lebanese political system.

A meeting of Lebanese Deputies in Kleat, Northern Lebanon, on 5 November 1989 ratified the Taif Accord and elected Rene Moawad, a Maronite Christian, as President. The election was welcomed by the UK and by most of the international community. Aoun declared the elections illegal, and announced that he would be holding elections himself in 1990. Moawad was however assassinated on 22 November 1989 and his successor, Elias Hrawi, immediately removed Aoun from his command of the Lebanese Armed Forces, surrounding the Christian enclave with Syrian troops.

The anticipated Syrian attack on the enclave did not materialise as, from January - May 1990, East Beirut was locked in an internecine struggle between Christian forces. This caused extensive damage and loss of life. The fighting almost halted the economic cycle of the country and led to increased unemployment and the emigration of skilled workers. Aoun was forced out of the Christian enclosure by a Syrian air attack in October 1990. Aoun took refuge in the French Embassy from which he went into exile in France.

Following the Taif Accord, south Lebanon remained the one area of active fighting. Israel continued to occupy part of south Lebanon with Israeli Defence Force soldiers and a Lebanese proxy-army, the South Lebanon Army. During the period of occupation, Hizballah emerged as the main Shia militia opposing the Israeli occupation and the Lebanese government continued to accept their control of south Lebanon after the Israeli withdrawal.

Between 2000 and 2006, the Blue Line remained largely stable, with occasional exchanges of fire, until July 2006 when Hizballah launched a raid over the border to capture Israeli soldiers, sparking 34 days of intense conflict between Israel and Hizballah.


Syria which is by NO means a radical Islamic state has been invading Lebanon and occupying it off and on since the breakup of the Ottoman Empire. The British and French carved up the Middle East and gave countries to their tribal allies such as the brothers who ruled Iraq and Jordan, the Ibn Sauds and so forth.

The RECENT like in the past 30 years history of Lebanon does have a radical Islam thread with Hizbollah with the meddling party being Iran.

Don't you mean Syria?

Don't believe most of what you hear or read about the Middle East either from locals or Westerners. Everyone has an axe to grind.

True - but the one thing that cannot be denied - anywhere islam has taken over - the population has had a serious loss of a basic we all take for granted - human rights.

When I lived and traveled in the Middle East in the 1970s, Lebanon, "Palestine", Egypt, and Syria were very secular and Westernized.

Perhaps - but Palestine did not exist in the time you were there - in fact it never existed as a country - EVER - but it did exist as a terriitory with people from islam, christianity and those of the Jewish faith as inhabitants. Something most people do not realize - proof the media war has been won by the PLO.

And believe me - times have changed - you as a woman would not be very welcome as a solo traveller in most areas now. And remember - the Egyptians and the Jordanians do not want to let the PLO or Hamas into their countries - even they admit this. No westernization here now. Although I do admit that since Jordan and Israel signed the peace treaty it has been better in this arena.


The big change that came was due to the meddling of Iran and morely importantly due to the staunch U.S. ally Saudi Arabia who in order to appease their religious fundamentalists at home funded them to proselytize fundamentalist Islam all over the Muslim world. Women's clothing has changed everywhere I travelled 30 years ago. Young men brought up in madrasas even in North Africa are jihadists. This was brought about by the ALLIES OF THE UNITES STATES OF AMERICA -- the Saudis -- close friends and allies of G H Bush, Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, and G W Bush. It was on our watch and we not only allowed it, we didn't even pay attention to what the repercussions might be.

Here we also disagree - you have ignored Syria - which had and has great influence in Lebanon, Iran in Gaza, Syria and Jordan in West Bank and the in-fighting between the PLO, Hizbollah and Hamas.

Your writings I admit have their points but your information is - in my opinion - dated and skewed. It also shows a definite bias towards one part of the U.S. of A. government.

You named the modern folks but ignored people like Kennedy.

I do not have a Democrat vs Republican ideology. This allows me to view things without the same prejudices you appear to have - I could not blame one government - I blame the west in its entirety for their political correctness and therefore their weakness - to deal with this issue will take more than negotiations - as many here are not interested in negotiation.

In fact it is common knowledge over here that westerners are weak and do not have the intestinal fortitude to withstand a holy war. (Not my words - someone elses)

I am willing to bet my opinion in this matter will be born out by the failure of Obamas mid east peace envoy - George Mitchell.

Do not be fooled by potential early and apparent strides made in the peace process - I predict this to only be a delay tactic to see what financial benefits will flow from the U.S. of A. to the middle east.

And how long can you - the U.S. of A. continue to buy world peace?

You do not have deep enough pockets - and when those funds run out - and they will - the strife will continue again. And the base of islam in the U.S. of A. will be even deeper and wider.

Especially when the other side uses it to buy weapons rather than look after its people?

This discussion could go on forever and I suspect most here will either think of me as a racist (after all I am white and only whites can be racist) or folks will simply get bored and go their merry way - so I am out of it - but it was a slice - you at least have a solid understanding of the dangers heading our way.

I will leave you with this thought:

Israel wrestles with the fact that it is a Jewish State and a democracy. It allows arabs to become citizens in the ONLY democracy in the middle east.

The reason it wrestles with this is because Israel realizes it cannot be both. It must become a Jewish State or a democracy. To become a Jewish State removes the democracy. To become a democracy will remove the Jewish State / homeland.

Why?

Because the arabs are out breeding the Israelis.

Not politically correct.

Not discussed in the U.S. of A.

But it is discussed here in Israel.

If you do not see the parallels in your country - as in the European countries - then your families are in for serious shock some day.

Most do not - or do - but refuse to recognize it.

Have a good one.

My Best Regards

BC
 

badaxemoo

Well-known member
Broke Cowboy said:
own back yard.

I do not attack you - I stated what I see - what I saw and what I was told yesterday by am man who would be quite happy to see me in the ground.

You do not have to like it - and I do not have to like it - but islam hates you - and me - why not take me up on my challenge and read the book?

My eyes are not brown, they are blue - and the last time I checked my ears were quite clear even though they will ring for the rest of my life from an RPG sent my way by a fan of Christianity.

My best regards

BC

You're right. You didn't attack me.

You just attacked about 1 billion people with some ridiculous exaggerations.

I have no opinion on your particular circumstance, nor should I.

And I'm sorry that you have ringing in your ears, but even the way you choose to phrase this is quite strange.

Do you believe the conflict in Iraq is some kind of 21 century crusade or do you just think your enemy does?
 
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