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Beef Checkoff?

Ben H

Well-known member
These sovereignty laws in MT, TX and UT about guns being made/sold/for use in those states not being required to have federal background checks got me thinking. The justification is that the Federal government only needs to be involved for interstate commerce. If my cattle are born, raised, finished and slaughtered in Maine, then sold in Maine, then why should I pay the beef checkoff? Isn't that a federal law? It's collected by the state, but isn't it a federal regulation not a state one?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Ben H said:
These sovereignty laws in MT, TX and UT about guns being made/sold/for use in those states not being required to have federal background checks got me thinking. The justification is that the Federal government only needs to be involved for interstate commerce. If my cattle are born, raised, finished and slaughtered in Maine, then sold in Maine, then why should I pay the beef checkoff? Isn't that a federal law? It's collected by the state, but isn't it a federal regulation not a state one?

One of the arguments the Charters attorneys used during the court case was that same thing- the cattle were traded within state- but it didn't fly...

Essentially the argument the USDA and NCBA attorneys used during the court challenge- was that the checkoff is a Federal Tax-overseen by the USDA- and thats one of the main reasons the Supreme Court ruled its constitutional...
 

mrj

Well-known member
Ben, what is it you do not like about what the cattlemen mandated Beef Checkoff has done and is doing at both the state and national levels?

OT has stated often enough why he doesn't like it, which boils down to he believes NCBA gets the money for support of political issues, which is of course, false.

mrj
 

Ben H

Well-known member
I'm not saying I don't like the beef checkoff, I'm not debating the program. I'm arguing about weather or not federal law should be able to force me to participate. I think the HR bills passed in TX, UT, MT will challenge the law at the Supreme Court level that has allowed the growth of the federal government. The point is that the product I raise is born, raised, finished and processed in Maine for sale in Maine. I should not have to deal with any Federal regulation to sell my product. Of course I can get State inspection, but this checkoff issue got me thinking along the lines of it being a federal requirement and therefore should not apply.

Further, because of the "niche" product I produce, grassfed beef, I have only seen one pamphlet produced by the checkoff that mentions grassfed. Lets face it, grainfed is what's promoted the most. Now comes the issues with cuts. This bugs me to no fault of the checkoff. I have had many customers filling out a cut sheet for a side of beef. The best visual I could give them is the beef checkoff poster, I have the pdf file. The problem starts that the butchers I have available haven't heard of any of the newer cuts that the checkoff created to add value. The first time I had them cut flat irons they gave me blade, finally they got it right. Then I asked about all the other ones, I was willing to purchased the videos and data sheets. They didn't want to be bothered with it. The small butchers have a way of doing things but it does not keep up with the direction that the checkoff is going. It puts us small producers, who are limited to the processing available, in a bind.

Most of my customers find me through sites like eatwild.com and are looking for an alternative to conventional beef.

Here is the case where I think this whole issue falls back to, Wickard v. Filburn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn
From what I understand to be true, most justices do not agree with the ruling of this case. MT, UT, TX have provided a vehicle to get this case challenged and therefore push are country back in the direction it was meant to be.
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Ben this isn't really related to Check Off but my Dad and i had this conversation yesterday. How do you compete using a small abbatoir where so much is not utilized? My dad was lamenting that we didn't get any soup bone with the last beef, We would have paid cutting and wrapping on the hanging weight but he did not wrap any. The big packers have a market for every thing granted they probably have higher overhead.
Another issue is unless you sell quarters or sides is product that doesn't move from season to season. That has put many small operation under.
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Ben, although it's not taught this way in school, this was the real issue that brought on the War Between the States...who would be the supreme power in the country...the federal government or the State governments.

BMR, for a small plant to make it, they must add value to the product and give the consumer a reason to pay more to cover the higher processing cost. There are many consumers that don't eat commodity beef now that will pay more to buy a product like Ben has.
 

Ben H

Well-known member
You're exactly right about backing up to the civil war with this trend. It's really too bad that slavery was the tool used to push this direction. Now we'll see what the gun issue can do to reverse it. We're in interesting times.
 

mrj

Well-known member
Thanks for answering my question, Ben.

I find it interesting that you and some others refer to the Beef Checkoff as a Federally imposed tax.

The idea for the Beef Checkoff came from cattle producers, was promoted by cattle producers, and the cattle producers across the nation voted it into being. Cattle producers fave full control of how the money is spent, with OVERSIGHT by USDA to assure the money is spent according to the letter of the law which created the Beef Checkoff.

What other Federal (or any other level of government) tax fits those criteria?

It is my understanding that there are workshops at state meetings of small beef processors to teach them the new methods and give them materials which they can use to enhance their own profitability. Leading a horse to water and getting him to drink are two different things, however. It is pretty hard to help someone who will not help themselves. Most likely some of them have all the work they want processing the beef just like they always have done it.

Interesting that there is so much interest in 'local' food now, and too many of those already in the small packer businesses will not try to revive their own businesses by catering to those raising the beef and those wanting to buy locally grown beef.

Regarding the lack of promo by the Beef Checkoff folks of grass fed beef....the budget has to cover all the bases, and grass fed is a small, if growing, segment. As more demand for such materials increases, it will appear! Have you considered a proposal for something to your state Beef Council or even the national? THey do appreciate hearing from cattle producers with ideas.

Have you checked [email protected]?


mrj
 
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Anonymous

Guest
mrj said:
I find it interesting that you and some others refer to the Beef Checkoff as a Federally imposed tax.
mrj

Probally wasn't even thought of that way until the NCBA/USDA attorneys came up with that argument to guarantee they didn't lose it - and to mandate it on everyone- even those that didn't follow the normal marketing process- and those that questioned their use of US producer Checkoff TAX dollars to promote imported foreign beef.....

If NCBA/Checkoff had been a little flexible on what it was used for to advertise/promote there never may have had to be a court ruling declaring it a tax....

But that might have screwed up NCBA's control/rakeoff..... :(

Thank you again NCBA..... :wink: :( :(

The Checkoff needs major reform to bring it into the 21st Century and to match the globalism that has been allowed to take over this country in the past 15-20 years....
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
mrj said:
Thanks for answering my question, Ben.

I find it interesting that you and some others refer to the Beef Checkoff as a Federally imposed tax.

The idea for the Beef Checkoff came from cattle producers, was promoted by cattle producers, and the cattle producers across the nation voted it into being. Cattle producers fave full control of how the money is spent, with OVERSIGHT by USDA to assure the money is spent according to the letter of the law which created the Beef Checkoff.

What other Federal (or any other level of government) tax fits those criteria?

It is my understanding that there are workshops at state meetings of small beef processors to teach them the new methods and give them materials which they can use to enhance their own profitability. Leading a horse to water and getting him to drink are two different things, however. It is pretty hard to help someone who will not help themselves. Most likely some of them have all the work they want processing the beef just like they always have done it.

Interesting that there is so much interest in 'local' food now, and too many of those already in the small packer businesses will not try to revive their own businesses by catering to those raising the beef and those wanting to buy locally grown beef.

Regarding the lack of promo by the Beef Checkoff folks of grass fed beef....the budget has to cover all the bases, and grass fed is a small, if growing, segment. As more demand for such materials increases, it will appear! Have you considered a proposal for something to your state Beef Council or even the national? THey do appreciate hearing from cattle producers with ideas.

Have you checked [email protected]?


mrj

If cattle producers have full control over where the money is spent, why is their wishes that the checkoff only promote US beef not a reality?
 

mrj

Well-known member
Boys, you don't WANT to understand the facts. There was a voluntary Beef Checkoff did not work well because too many were getting a free ride and donations were erratic, preventing effective programs.

The Beef Checkoff idea started with cattle producers, the vote was about 80% in favor, and all of that had NOTHING to do with the lawsuit to end it, which was brought by LMA and friends in a snit over PERCEIVED use of the money by NCBA for political issues.

That has NEVER happened, CANNOT happen, and the mechanism to prevent it happening was written into the law creating the Beef Checkoff by NCA members and members of all the other cattle organizations that worked together to get the checkoff passed so that it would not be used for anything but improving our cattle industry.

The major problem with the Beef Checkoff is that there isn't enough money to accomplish all the great ideas people FROM ALL BEEF ORGANIZATIONS come up with!

OT, "those who questioned the use of US producer Checkoff TAX(only in the imaginations of some who want it ended or to run it only their own way) to promote imported foreign beef" are graspng at anything in order to complain. First, you all would bellyache even worse if importers didn't pay the checkoff. Secondly, as more US beef is sold, a larger proportion of the checkoff automatically funds advertising for it. When the advertising is generic, it includes all beef, RobertMacs direct sale beef, Joe Blows dried up old roping steer beef, and the best beef produced by the concientious cattle producer doing the right things to get the best possible beef to consumers.

Polls routinely and randomly conducted by reliable experts shows approval in the 70+% range, with very few exctions or variations.

mrj
 

Ben H

Well-known member
Again, this is not a debate about the checkoff itself, that has been done enough. It's a queston on the legality of enforcing and requiring it to those who don't participate in interstate commerace. Our country is a Republic not a Democracy, we rule by law and not by mob rule. The question is where will this stand when these states rights movements get moving.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Ben H said:
Again, this is not a debate about the checkoff itself, that has been done enough. It's a queston on the legality of enforcing and requiring it to those who don't participate in interstate commerace. Our country is a Republic not a Democracy, we rule by law and not by mob rule. The question is where will this stand when these states rights movements get moving.

If the states really got agressive on the 10th Amendment, I don't see how this could possibly stand. I don't see the arguement that the Feds have this power.
 

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