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Beef labels

Sandhusker

Well-known member
I went to the grocery store for the first time in quite a while this afternoon and I went to see what labels were at the meat counter. In the beef section I saw a label about the size of a playing card that said "Product of US, Canada, Mexico" . In the pork section was "Product of US & Canada".

I'd like to know how the hell the packer pirates can claim that COOL is causing them to not buy Canadian cattle with those non-labels?
 

Tex

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
I went to the grocery store for the first time in quite a while this afternoon and I went to see what labels were at the meat counter. In the beef section I saw a label about the size of a playing card that said "Product of US, Canada, Mexico" . In the pork section was "Product of US & Canada".

I'd like to know how the hell the packer pirates can claim that COOL is causing them to not buy Canadian cattle with those non-labels?

Packers are playing the wedge here. They should be in jail, not running companies.
 

elwapo

Well-known member
They are still buying.... at a discounted price. Once again the cool/rcalf lobby stuffs some more money in the packer pockets. It is a fact that since the late 90's NAFTA has eliminated our ability (Canadians) to make a living in livestock production. You tell us that it is our problem and that we should put controls on free enterprise by restricting packer ownership which is a direct contravention of the capitalist dogma you profess. How ironical to suggest socialist policey for Canada to protect your capitalist illusion. While beating the Republican drum, you and other closet socialists seek to manipulate the free market through the back door. The new order of trade barriers has evolved to using labelling,disease, and other issues such as growth implants (EU) to control competition between countries. How hypocritical that the "land of the free" attempts to enslave others through corporate colonialism supported by anti trade legislation such as cool.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
You don't get it, Elwapo, they're not doing it because of COOL, they're doing it simply because they can because of lack of competition and they're blaming it on COOL because they want you to help them get rid of it because COOL takes away a huge tool they use against you - and you're falling for it. Under that label, where is the justification for a discount?

Dang right I'm a capitalist, and one of the things that is necessary for capitalism to work is competition. You clearly don't have competition or there would be no unjustified discounting. Myself and others have been fighting concentration to bring back competition, and we're trying to enhance competition by breaking the stranglehold the big packers have on the industry that doesn't allow US producers and Canadian producers to compete for the consumer's choice. You're defending a system of no competition where only a couple mega-packers control everything - and you're accusing me of corporate colonialism? You've got it backwards.

Elwapo, in order to survive against the wave of South American beef that both of our sold-out governments are going to allow via this free trade horseshit, we're going to have to be able to compete for the CONSUMER'S dollar. There we have a chance because we can actively market our product as safe, quality, local, etc.... - whatever angle we think will work to move our product. However, we need COOL do to this. If we don't have COOL, we're going to be competing against South America for the PACKER'S dollar, and they're going to be first and foremost talking price. Elwapo, neither the US nor Canada can compete on price. South American can sell and make a profit under our cost of production. How much beef do you think we'll be able to sell in that market? What kind of living are you going to make?
 

gcreekrch

Well-known member
I think we Canadians are close to the S A price. If you factor in freight, exchange rate, and our better quality product Tyson and Cargill a making very good profit at our expense.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
gcreekrch said:
I think we Canadians are close to the S A price. If you factor in freight, exchange rate, and our better quality product Tyson and Cargill a making very good profit at our expense.

And how is your bottom line doing? Making any plans for expansion?
 

elwapo

Well-known member
So Sandhusker
You propose that North American society impose controls to prevent the corporates from making too much money by importing goods at a lower cost. Fidel Castro and Carl Marx would probably strongly agree with your ethos!
Us North Americans have supported our standard of living for many years off of the backs of the poor the world over. What gives us the god given right to prevent another from producing at a lower cost and selling that product. We allow china to Produce our consumables at a low price, why not agricultural goods. Capitalism was founded on letting the market forces control the flow of product. If you were a true capitalist you would embrace trade at face value instead of using thinly veiled programs to ad to the cost of importers.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
You propose that North American society impose controls to prevent the corporates from making too much money by importing goods at a lower cost. Fidel Castro and Carl Marx would probably strongly agree with your ethos!

No I haven't. I've told you that free trade is going to bring a wave of South American product into our back yard. My support of COOL shows an acknowledgement of that fact and that my chosen method is not to limit those cheap goods, but to simply identify them so that true competition for the consumer's dollar can happen.


Us North Americans have supported our standard of living for many years off of the backs of the poor the world over. What gives us the god given right to prevent another from producing at a lower cost and selling that product.

You can spare us the oppression dramatics. COOL doesn't prevent anybody from producing or selling their product. All it says is to keep the label on it that it hit our borders with.

We allow china to Produce our consumables at a low price, why not agricultural goods.

1) In light of the melamine deal, lead paint, etc..., do you trust the Chinese?
2) An economy can't survive by simply being consumers.
3) So we rely on China for everything because they're cheaper. They invade Taiwan, the Middle East, or even Mexico. What do we do? We don't do a damn thing because if we do, they starve us. Brilliant policy
4) That means that there are no more US or Canadian farmers or ranchers. Whose side are you on, Ling Chow?


Capitalism was founded on letting the market forces control the flow of product.

You are correct. That is why I don't understand why you support a system where the only market force is what a couple mega-corporations decide is a market force. There are no market forces in oligopolies

If you were a true capitalist you would embrace trade at face value instead of using thinly veiled programs to ad to the cost of importers.

What costs, Elwapo? Canadian boxed beef is already labeled as such when it hits the border. Canadian live cattle are identified as well. The work is already done. All that has to be done is for the label to stay on the product to the consumer. That's not rocket science and that's not expensive.

You don't understand that there is no competition (capitalism) without COOL because you can't get out of your victim mentality. How in the hell are you competing for the consumer's dollar when they can't even identify your product?

What are you going to do when you've got $400 into that calf and the packers tell you their equivalent bid from Brazil is $300? What are you going to do, Elwapo? Are you going to sell for $290? What's your plan, Elwapo?
 

PORKER

Well-known member
What costs, Elwapo? Canadian boxed beef is already labeled as such when it hits the border. Canadian live cattle are identified as well. The work is already done. All that has to be done is for the label to stay on the product to the consumer. That's not rocket science and that's not expensive. Your Right SandHusker !

www.ScoringAg.com achieved that kind of labeling called item-level traceability in 2004 , but the , packer, processor,wholesaler, and retailer didn't want anybody to know where the food came from or was handled by. It only costs $0.0025 of a US cent for each animal to be tracked at each handler along the chain. Check out this veal package code at traceback.com with the RFID number. 985120022951563
 

elwapo

Well-known member
No I haven't. I've told you that free trade is going to bring a wave of South American product into our back yard. My support of COOL shows an acknowledgement of that fact and that my chosen method is not to limit those cheap goods, but to simply identify them so that true competition for the consumer's dollar can happen.

You didn't need legislation in order to identify your own goods. If you thought the consumer would pay more labelling "made in america" should have solved the issue. By making the plants segregate products you added cost to the imported product. If identity was truely the concern the co-mingled label would be no issue.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
elwapo said:
No I haven't. I've told you that free trade is going to bring a wave of South American product into our back yard. My support of COOL shows an acknowledgement of that fact and that my chosen method is not to limit those cheap goods, but to simply identify them so that true competition for the consumer's dollar can happen.

You didn't need legislation in order to identify your own goods. If you thought the consumer would pay more labelling "made in america" should have solved the issue. By making the plants segregate products you added cost to the imported product. If identity was truely the concern the co-mingled label would be no issue.

You couldn't do it with the USDA allowing the Packers/Retailers to put a USDA label on all imported products- even the sometimes much cheaper Mexican, Aussie or S.A. meat- and pass it off to the US consumers as a US product with that USDA label....

All the American consumers and producers are asking for is TRUTH IN LABELING.....If the product was born, raised, and slaughtered in the US- it is a product of the US-- if it was born and raised in Canada- then imported and slaughtered in the US- it is a product of Canada and the US...

What's wrong with telling the consumers the TRUTH.... :???:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
elwapo said:
No I haven't. I've told you that free trade is going to bring a wave of South American product into our back yard. My support of COOL shows an acknowledgement of that fact and that my chosen method is not to limit those cheap goods, but to simply identify them so that true competition for the consumer's dollar can happen.

You didn't need legislation in order to identify your own goods. If you thought the consumer would pay more labelling "made in america" should have solved the issue. By making the plants segregate products you added cost to the imported product. If identity was truely the concern the co-mingled label would be no issue.

Yes, we do need legislation to identify our goods, because the packers obviously won't do it. The packers have all the power now (and folks like you are tring to keep it that way, which I don't understand), and they know that the profits aren't made in the sale, they're made in the buying. Put yourself in their shoes; You can either sell "Made in America" for 10% more, or you can sell "Tyson Mystery Meat" and pay 30% less. What would you do? This whole issue from their standpoint isn't any more complex than that.

So what are you going to do when the bids for your cattle are under your cost of production? You had better make a plan now, because without COOL and with free access to South America, that is guaranteed to happen. What's your plan, Elwapo?
 

gcreekrch

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
gcreekrch said:
I think we Canadians are close to the S A price. If you factor in freight, exchange rate, and our better quality product Tyson and Cargill a making very good profit at our expense.

And how is your bottom line doing? Making any plans for expansion?

As a matter of fact we have always built our plans around expansion and always will. The worldwide cattle herd is in a contraction phase and we want to have as many cows as we can manage when the general population realizes it. Brazil has been closing packing plants due to lower cattle numbers create by the ethenol craze. Australia and New Zealand are in the same mode. All we N. Americans have to do is build on that knowledge and lay in the weeds and wait.
 

elwapo

Well-known member
I think you have nailed it gcreekrch. We will have to let the market eliminate the excess production and leave the market manipulation to the socialists like sandhusker and his victim mentality.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
elwapo said:
I think you have nailed it gcreekrch. We will have to let the market eliminate the excess production and leave the market manipulation to the socialists like sandhusker and his victim mentality.

The packers are manipulating the market right now, with your full support.

What's your plan, Elwapo?
 

elwapo

Well-known member
My plan is to wait for the market to reduce supply thus creating demand.... viola profit. We have waited 5 years now and the herd contraction has begun in earnest. What is your plan sandhusker? To stamp your feet, cry about packers , and use politics to affect supply.
 

gcreekrch

Well-known member
I hope Sandy is around when they lay me to rest. I want 6 bankers for pallbearers.....they've been carrying me all my life, they just as well finish the job. :D

I've never been much on running in circles and barking at everything that looks spooky. When all this COOL hubbub "cools" down there will be another pain in the butt that we'll all be concerned about.
Just do the best with what you have to work with. :wink:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
No, I'm talking about what your plan will be when you have to compete head to head with South America in a market based only on price. I don't know of you're aware of it or not, but their production costs are half of what yours are.

My plan is to bring about as much true competition as possible in the marketplace and actively market US products. I believe on competitive and transparent markets.
 

gcreekrch

Well-known member
If the ethanol boom keeps going the way it has been I have a hunch that wherever they can grow sugarcane in SA will take a front seat to beef production for quite a few years in the future. There are a lot of other countries where sugarcane can be grown also. Demand is there, as long as growing it is lucrative why would those that can raise cattle?

I am aware of what other countries costs of production are. The advantage that WE ( NA) have is that affluent buyers like our product better and will pay a premium for it. ( Even in these times) The most concerning part of the equation is how to get a larger portion of that premium passed down to the primary producer.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Gcreek, look at how the big packers are steering the industry and fast forward in time. Their efforts are going to be in the cheapest source mystery meat because that is where the biggest profits are. Sure, there will be people who want quality and will pay a premium for it, but that's not a market the packers will work and it will become a niche market. Can all of us service that niche and make a living? If we're going to survive, we need to push the quality hard and make mystery meat the niche. With the packers fighting for the other way, that can't happen without COOL.
 
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