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Beef quota

hillsdown

Well-known member
How hard is it going to be to get the beef producers together in Canada and get a quota system, like Canada has for dairy , and implement it for us beef producers....

I have been talking to many producers especially those that are dairy operators as well and we all agree that may be the only thing that can save us and our industry.

Just look at what is happening to dairy producers world wide now that they have dissolved their quota system, they are all near bankruptcy and complete ruin.

Canada's dairy producers are still going strong and making profits.

Granted it will take some ingenuity to get all the kinks worked out and some producers will not be able to get in, but it maybe the best thing to save our industry. Now if we could just all get along. :wink:
 

SaskHerf

Active member
i've been preaching this for a while now, get some people who agree and some who stare with blank looks on their faces. If you got 3 or 4 hours i can give you the rant as well!!! :roll: :roll:
 

hillsdown

Well-known member
Powdered milk and cheese alot. That would not be a problem .

What we would have to change is Imports, how much milk is imported NONE, cheese quite a bit, and other dairy products a few but most are Canadian. Saputo is our biggest supplier I think .
It is Canadian and world wide..

The huge obstacle BMR is imports ;we would have to limit them unless we cannot fill the demand for beef. If it is done for dairy it can be done for beef. We just need some people with back bones and a little out of the box thinking.

Saskherf rant away I have time to kill ,and love a good read especially from a fellow Canadian producer. :)
 

hillsdown

Well-known member
More than anything beef can be a one man operation pretty much, dairy cannot . Beef, you can at least get a few hours away from it ,dairy you cannot.

Believe me I will take a 40000-50000 dollar check for dairy any day of the week over beef even after all of the expenses are payed. We got out of dairy for a more personal reason though.

No one will have to get out of beef that is in it now, it will just be a little different to get back in though.

I think if the right plan is made it will be the best for all producers and if you decide to get out or retire you can sell your quota or lease it etc..

The younger generations want some kind of guarantee before they go into agriculture this may be the only thing to entice them ,,not everyone can inherit land and cattle ,some just really like the industry and want to be in it even though they have a city background .

I will try and get my vet to blog about it He is way smarter and word suave than I.

BMR if it is implemented right you would only gain from it, just like the dairy farmers did here 50 years ago.
 

Silver

Well-known member
I think it's a great idea and I've said so for years. Biggest reason it won't fly is NAFTA . And the WTO is leaning pretty hard on us for our dairy system so don't expect it to be around forever either, and don't think they'd quietly sit by and let us set up a quota sysem for beef.
 

Just Ranchin

Well-known member
Hillsdown, while I appreciate your enthusiasm and out of the box thinking, I personally think that this is not what we need. I have experience on both sides of the fence, and after experiencing both sides, beef quota system would not work.
How would the scenario work? If we are going to just supply the domestic market, then we would all have to cut our herd sizes down by how much? 20%? 50%? How would we track production? Is there a guarantee that imports would be limited? Supply management is being hammered by the WTO for the past several years, and do not be surprised if it is not abolished in the next 10 years. They are dealing with import issues already, maybe not with dairy products, but with butter oils that are being blended into ice cream that is hurting local supply. The average dairy farm holds over 60% of their net worth in a piece of paper saying that they have to produce X kilograms of butterfat in a year. Is that a sound business plan? Dairy producers are just as frustrated with the quota system as we are with free enterprise.
I think the grass will always be greener on the other side of the fence. I would welcome some more discussion on this though, to see how the model might work.
 

gcreekrch

Well-known member
Yep, that's just what we need. If my calves weigh an extra 50 lbs over what my quota calls for I can take a penalty for producing too much. If I have extra feed I can try to come up with the extra money to buy more quota that may or may not be available BEFORE I buy the cows.
We built what we have on our own and I believe that if someone younger wants to start the only thing holding them back is the older know-it-alls saying it can't be done and lack of intestinal fortitude.

I REALLY chafe under REGULATIONS.
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
The problem is the government. They encouraged people to get into beef and hogs. Seed grass raise cows. Then they make us uncompetitive with regulations.

What should we start by eliminating all herds under a 100 head?

Would that be fair?

No one with a off farm job can raise cattle?

How would that work?
 

hillsdown

Well-known member
You are comparing it to the dairy system it would not be the dairy system. It would be set up for beef and the way beef producers operate now ..

Dairy is frustrating and I know that all to well but at least you break even , they may be beotching but it is a [email protected] of alot better than what is going on in the rest of the world.

I love [email protected] head Stelmach telling me that I can defer my taxes this year after dispersing most of my herd due to drought. What frickin taxes is that piece of **** talking about, you have to actually make money on the cattle you sell to pay taxes. I am just tired of the market regulating us and not us regulating the market. And no US please do not jump in as the only thing that saved you all was a stupid American here that tried 3 different plants to ship a downer cow to and he finally found one. If I didn't know better I would think it was planned because your beef prices skyrocketed and your exports more than doubled. The fact that some of you still feed chicken and turkey shyt to your cattle says it all.

Well let's see how this goes when all of our beef is imported, BTW BMR our exports are less than 25 percent, we fell off the charts after BSE and we will never climb back; the US took over because they do not have BSE, just staggers and of course all of the other countries like New Zealand, Australia and South America do not have them because they do not test for them.

JR we import more than we supply for our own , we could easily meet the demand of every Canadian consumer as well as our export market.
 

hillsdown

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
The problem is the government. They encouraged people to get into beef and hogs. Seed grass raise cows. Then they make us uncompetitive with regulations.

What should we start by eliminating all herds under a 100 head?

Would that be fair?

No one with a off farm job can raise cattle?

How would that work?

No as there are still mom and pop dairies around.
The quota would have to be implemented from the herd you have. Like if you have 300 head then you might be given quota for 200 and if you want to keep the other 100 the you have to buy in.
It is very complicated but I think if it is given a really good look and not developed by government but real producers it may work. Eggs farmers still have quota as far as I know and I have yet to hear them holler.

Anyways just something to think about as we are in deep shyt as canadian beef producers and it is only going to get worse.
 

RSL

Well-known member
We have still seen consolidation in the dairy industry in Canada.
One of the main differences between beef and dairy in Canada is that the dairy industry was never overbuilt for the domestic market.
Beef is also pretty different as we use leftovers (not choice feed) and there are a lot of acres of land that can only be used (or should only be used) to provide human food through the guts of a ruminant animal.
Domestic use only would mean that we are looking at around 1,000,000 beef cows. Who gets paid to get out?
Also do the dairy guys have to pay for beef quota if they wish to dispose of cull dairy animals into the beef supply chain?
I think we need solutions, but I don't think a quota system is the right solution. :???:
 

Kato

Well-known member
We're in it up to our ears.

A guarantee that we would make cost of production like the dairy guys do would be wonderful. If we operated in a perfect world it would work. Problem is that the first thing that would happen if it looked like Canadian cattle producers were getting organized is that the packers would start to play hardball. I would think they would both threaten to shut down. Look at what's going on in Moose Jaw to see the mindset. They're making good money right now, and they wouldn't give that up lightly. Not without a heck of a fight. And they've got deeper pockets than we do. They'll use their resources to divide and conquer just like they always have. It would take some amazing organization to get past it.

That's only obstacle one. Just the beginning. Then there's good old NAFTA. You remember that one? It's the one that we seem to be the only ones honouring, but that doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't stop our co-signers from shouting blue murder if we wanted to act like them and cherry pick which parts we wanted to live up to. :wink:

What we need is a market that functions. One that includes more than two bidders for our cattle. One that includes a trade agreement that works the way it was meant to when we signed up for it. There's nothing to keep beef processors honest in this country, and we can all see easily just what that leads to.

If we're not going to get any results from this one sided trade agreement, then maybe it should go first. After that, then maybe we can move on to a solution.
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
In 2008 we exported 1,047,561 hd. If we had a quota system we would not be exporting so we would have to reduce the herd by at least this much.

The beef exports and imports would pretty much take care of themselves.

Someone will have to get out of cattle if we are to consume it all ourselves.
 

Silver

Well-known member
Sounds like we would only need to reduce our herds 10% if that's the case BMR. And if we were to reduce our herds by 15% perhaps our margins would go up by at least that. I wouldn't mind a little less work to make a little more money.

It wasn't very many years ago we produced only enough for ourselves.
 

Grassfarmer

Well-known member
The secure income sounds attractive hillsdown but it'll never happen - you couldn't sell it to western ranchers. No real need for it either, all we need is some political willpower to introduce and enforce some proper anti-competition laws. If you think that's unlikely to happen getting a quota or supply managed system set up would be impossible for sure.
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Silver said:
Sounds like we would only need to reduce our herds 10% if that's the case BMR. And if we were to reduce our herds by 15% perhaps our margins would go up by at least that. I wouldn't mind a little less work to make a little more money.

It wasn't very many years ago we produced only enough for ourselves.

But then these guys had to go north and run cows in the bush. :wink:

The government encouraged farmers to seed grass on land that they subsidized to break in the first place. We raised cattle on grass until the farmers had a glut of grain and started a feedlot industry which produced more beef then we could domestically consume hence we had to develop an export market.
 

hillsdown

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
In 2008 we exported 1,047,561 hd. If we had a quota system we would not be exporting so we would have to reduce the herd by at least this much.

The beef exports and imports would pretty much take care of themselves.

Someone will have to get out of cattle if we are to consume it all ourselves.

One million is peanuts.

Why couldn't you export beef. Dairy still does it and always has..The only time we haven't been able to export s due to BSE bans.

It needs to be tweaked; like I said not the exact system for dairy but one that accommodates beef farmers. If we all got together we would be more powerful than the packers, but can we all get together. That is the biggest hurtle ;some of the producers that have been doing the same thing for 50 years even though the markets have changed refuse to change as well.

Look ,we need something.. Maybe I am too optimistic , but I refuse to give into the Bull shyte that we are given now. I, you, all of us will not be run out of town with our tails between our legs without a [email protected] good fight. I will be [email protected] before I let our beef supply be run out of business just because corporate America wants to pad their pockets..
 

Silver

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
Silver said:
Sounds like we would only need to reduce our herds 10% if that's the case BMR. And if we were to reduce our herds by 15% perhaps our margins would go up by at least that. I wouldn't mind a little less work to make a little more money.

It wasn't very many years ago we produced only enough for ourselves.

But then these guys had to go north and run cows in the bush. :wink:

The government encouraged farmers to seed grass on land that they subsidized to break in the first place. We raised cattle on grass until the farmers had a glut of grain and started a feedlot industry which produced more beef then we could domestically consume hence we had to develop an export market.

I thought us northern guys were raising cattle first :???: Dang southerners just started copying us :wink:

Free trade is the root cause of our expanded herds, and it is the reason we will not get a quota system or any system that safeguards our domestic producers. Prior to free trade we had many smaller independant packers and smaller feedlots. It didn't necessarily make for good prices but at least we (Canada) had a lot firmer grip on the controlls of our own destiny.
 
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