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Birthers

A

Anonymous

Guest
The Nation -- The long hunt for the new leader of the Republican Party has at last come to an end, and the winner isn't Rush Limbaugh, Mitt Romney, or even Sarah Palin, but this woman in a red T-shirt:

If you're going to lead a low-tech lynch mob, you've got to be able to get that Gilbert Gottfried screech into your voice like the Lady in Red does when she says, "I want my country back!" That's leadership for you, ever so much more forceful than poor Delaware Rep. Mike Castle, a GOP moderate (one of eight who voted for the House climate change bill), who seems to be ducking a personal Oxbow Incident by meekly asking the crowd if they'd like him to "lead" the Pledge of Allegiance. By then the crowd is already on its feet, one hand on their hearts and the other on an imaginary holster, insisting, like their dimestore-flag-waving leader, that they "don't want this flag to change!"

It's paranoid, it's deranged, and it's as American as Andrew Jackson and the rebel yell. What's different now is that the nativist right has finally had their bluff called by the landslide election of a black man as president, and their centuries-old legitimacy is in question as it never has been since Appomattox. So they are desperately projecting that self-doubt onto reality itself.

Of course, the Lady in Red couldn't scream the N-word in a townhall meeting (which, by the way, was called to discuss healthcare reform), so she screamed about his birth certificate. Karl Rove mentor Lee Atwater called this shot nearly three decades ago, when he explained how the Republican Party should parse its racism for the 20th century and beyond:

You start out in 1954 by saying, `Nigger, nigger, nigger.' By 1968 you can't say `nigger'--that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights, and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.

And now, finally, things have become so algebraic that the base goes totally into denial, refusing to see a notarized public document as it's waved right under their noses, and the whole nativist scheme falls into ridicule.

The Birthers go beyond simple conspiracy theories--they're cast members of the ongoing American denying-reality show, not unlike the folks who deny the moonlanding or the Holocaust (like James von Brunn, the octogenarian who killed a guard at the Washington, D.C., Holocaust Museum and who had earlier posted a screed entitled "WHO SENT YOU???," charging that Obama is utterly undocumented), and very much like the Creationists who insist that the Earth is but 6,000 years old, the Teabaggers who refuse to believe they must pay taxes, the 9/11 Truthers who say the government attacked the Twin Towers, and, as we might call them, the Inhofers who believe global warming is a hoax.

The word Birther itself comes trailing clouds of associative fog. It's unclear who minted the term, but for the true believers themselves, it can have a positive ring. When I first heard of Birthers I thought maybe they were subscribers to some sub-catechism about the birth of Christ or an offshoot of the anti-abortion movement--pro-life, pro-birth. Which makes sense: The Bircher, er, Birther movement is born from the same psychology that can trace social unease to a single issue--if we could only stop abortion, we could turn the clock back to Father Knows Best; if we could abolish all gun control, we could restore the eye-for-an-eye justice of the Old West; if we could only prove that Barack Obama was "born in Kenya," his presidency would go away and White Power would be restored.

It's great to dream the American Dream, and the right of an individual to pursue whatever fantasy he or she wants is what makes America so admired around the world. There's nothing wrong with dressing up in Confederate grey and re-enacting your defeat--you just can't impose such a monoculture on the rest of us.

What has been so polluting about the GOP's Southern Strategy over the past 50 years is the winking at racism by supposedly mainstream pols and pundits for short-term votes and ratings. It's the cynicism of a Liz Cheney or a Lou Dobbs doling out MSM legitimacy with each Birther encouragement that really opens a rent in the social contract. Occasionally, you might trip up such media figures with factual arguments, as Chris Matthews did this week with both an addled G. Gordon Liddy and a Republican congressman pushing a bill that would force presidential candidates (i.e., Obama in 2012) to pony up their birth certificates.

But with Birthers and others in the fantasy-based community themselves, no amount of argument or evidence will knock some sense into them. Their lives are defined in significant part by the strength of their denial. Maybe the only way to effectively respond is the way a real American hero, like Buzz Aldrin, did a few years ago when confronted by one of those crazies who insist the moonlanding was faked
 

Lonecowboy

Well-known member
Classic liberal play-

Instead of disputing the facts with evidence-
attack the messenger!

What meaningfull thing did this writer produce-
any new evidence in here?
Or was he just blowing smoke, trying to discredit the source.
Trying to silence the voice of a concerned American citizen applying her Constitutional rights.
Trying to silence other American citizens from exercising theirs!
Trying to silence with fear and intimidation.

We the People will not go quietly without a fight!
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
The issue with the birthers can't be the doubt of Obama's qualiications, his obvious actions to conceal evidence, and his knowing and intentional urination upon the Constitution that he swore to uphold - for his own personal gain. Can't be any of that, it's got to be racial. If you don't fall prostrate at the very mention of this man's name, this immortal man who won by a "landslide" :roll: , you're obviously a racist.
 

badaxemoo

Well-known member
Lonecowboy said:
Classic liberal play-

Instead of disputing the facts with evidence-
attack the messenger!

What meaningfull thing did this writer produce-
any new evidence in here?
Or was he just blowing smoke, trying to discredit the source.
Trying to silence the voice of a concerned American citizen applying her Constitutional rights.
Trying to silence other American citizens from exercising theirs!
Trying to silence with fear and intimidation.

We the People will not go quietly without a fight!

In this case, the messengers ARE the message.

The "birther" message is paranoid, xenophobic, and racist and so are most of the messengers.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
The anti-birthers message is one of gullibilty and requires the individual to completely bury their head in the sand and trust a compulsive liar and narcissist, while ignoring his actions weighed against normal human behavior.

In short, you have to be a blind and trusting fool.
 

alice

Well-known member
My very, very conservative, FOX news loving, right wing radio listening, Mark Levin book reading husband just shakes his head and laughs at the birthers...says every political party has it's fringe nuts. That's right, he calls the birthers nuts.

Sandhusker, is he a moonbat, also?

Alice
 

alice

Well-known member
badaxemoo said:
Lonecowboy said:
Classic liberal play-

Instead of disputing the facts with evidence-
attack the messenger!

What meaningfull thing did this writer produce-
any new evidence in here?
Or was he just blowing smoke, trying to discredit the source.
Trying to silence the voice of a concerned American citizen applying her Constitutional rights.
Trying to silence other American citizens from exercising theirs!
Trying to silence with fear and intimidation.

We the People will not go quietly without a fight!

In this case, the messengers ARE the message.

The "birther" message is paranoid, xenophobic, and racist and so are most of the messengers.

I must say I have to agree with this....especially the paranoid part. It's hard enough to live happily right now with all of the problems we, as a nation, are facing. Why anyone would want compound it by living in a state of paranoia over something this ridiculous is beyond me.

Alice
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
alice said:
badaxemoo said:
Lonecowboy said:
Classic liberal play-

Instead of disputing the facts with evidence-
attack the messenger!

What meaningfull thing did this writer produce-
any new evidence in here?
Or was he just blowing smoke, trying to discredit the source.
Trying to silence the voice of a concerned American citizen applying her Constitutional rights.
Trying to silence other American citizens from exercising theirs!
Trying to silence with fear and intimidation.

We the People will not go quietly without a fight!

In this case, the messengers ARE the message.

The "birther" message is paranoid, xenophobic, and racist and so are most of the messengers.

I must say I have to agree with this....especially the paranoid part. It's hard enough to live happily right now with all of the problems we, as a nation, are facing. Why anyone would want compound it by living in a state of paranoia over something this ridiculous is beyond me.

Alice

I see - so where then is the cert?

Which hospital was he born at?

Why does he spend thousands to hide the cert instead of $20 to bring it?
 

Lonecowboy

Well-known member
badaxemoo said:
Lonecowboy said:
Classic liberal play-

Instead of disputing the facts with evidence-
attack the messenger!

What meaningfull thing did this writer produce-
any new evidence in here?
Or was he just blowing smoke, trying to discredit the source.
Trying to silence the voice of a concerned American citizen applying her Constitutional rights.
Trying to silence other American citizens from exercising theirs!
Trying to silence with fear and intimidation.

We the People will not go quietly without a fight!

In this case, the messengers ARE the message.

The "birther" message is paranoid, xenophobic, and racist and so are most of the messengers.

Paranoia is a thought process characterized by excessive anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. In the original Greek, παράνοια (paranoia) simply means madness (para = outside; nous = mind). Historically, this characterization was used to describe any delusional state.

Sometimes in common usage, the term paranoia is misused to describe a phobia[citation needed]. For example, a person may not want to fly out of fear the plane may crash. This does not in itself indicate paranoia, but rather a phobia. The lack of blame in this case usually points to the latter. An example of paranoia, however, would be fear that while watching an American Football game, the team huddle was talking about the person affected. An important feature of paranoid thinking is its centrality: that the paranoid person perceives themselves as central figures in an experienced scenario which may be either dangerous (persecutory) or self-exalting (grandiose) and interprets events which have no reference to them in reality as directed at or about them.

misused- "birthers" see obama as a threat to the Constitution and America, not themselves individually.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), the word xenophobia consists of two parts: xeno (a combining form meaning "guest, stranger, person that looks different, foreigner") and phobia, ("fear, horror or aversion, especially if morbid").[1]

It is more broadly defined in the Dictionary of Psychology "a fear of strangers". [2] As defined by the OED, it can mean a fear of or aversion to, not only persons from other countries, but other cultures, subcultures and subsets of belief systems; in short, anyone who meets any list of criteria about their origin, religion, personal beliefs, habits, language, orientations, or any other criteria.

adversion to a foreigner- with questios about his origin, religion, personal beliefs, habits, orientations--
Yep- we would like answers to those questions!


rac·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
Function: noun
Date: 1933
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Where does this apply?
The only ones mentioning race are obama supporters.
I personally don't care if he's green, orange, yellow, pink, or purple,
Is he Constitutionally eligible to serve as POTUS?
Only obama can answer that and he ain't talking!
He's doing everything he can to hide the facts!
Why does he feel the ned to hide the facts?
 

Tam

Well-known member
To all you believers please explain to me what the you fear if Obama is forced to show all his records including his Birth Certificate? I just don't understand why any American would not want this issue to disappear!! If Obama is being HONEST then what is the harm in unsealing his records? Why not be TRANSPARENT and open all his records and silence the nay sayers? Doesn't his owe every US citizen the right to know the truth if he is going to claim to be their leader? If he is telling the truth the records will only back him up but if he is lieing and hiding behind his team of lawyers then doesn't the US NEED TO KNOW? Why fight the issue and not clear the air with the records? Do you like the split he is causing within the US?

Those that want the nay sayers to stop, can make it happen by just asking Obama to provided the proof and get it over with. The longer you side with Obama and his team of lawyers the longer you can expect this issue to fester. THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE. :nod: :wink:
 

badaxemoo

Well-known member
Tam said:
To all you believers please explain to me what the you fear if Obama is forced to show all his records including his Birth Certificate? I just don't understand why any American would not want this issue to disappear!!

The Reynolds Wrap company has a fairly powerful lobby and this issue has done wonders for its sales.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam- the problem exists in they won't accept anything for proof...If he presents a birth certificate this nutcase bunch will just say its forged- or altered....If he found witness that were at his birth- they wouldn't be believed....
This racist fearmongering- hatemongering bunch behind this won't be happy til they have anarchy in the streets- and their spokesmen- the Rush's, Anns and Hannity's all have their pockets full of the nutcases gold coins....

I think the article that Reader2 posted sums this up best-- this was vetted very well by McCain/Palin- and they know there is no evidence to the contrary or they would have brought it up...

McCain would have more right to challenge- and more standing in the courts than any other person...Or do you think McCain is a part of this huge worldwide conspiracy :???:
 

badaxemoo

Well-known member
Lonecowboy said:
badaxemoo said:
Lonecowboy said:
Classic liberal play-

Instead of disputing the facts with evidence-
attack the messenger!

What meaningfull thing did this writer produce-
any new evidence in here?
Or was he just blowing smoke, trying to discredit the source.
Trying to silence the voice of a concerned American citizen applying her Constitutional rights.
Trying to silence other American citizens from exercising theirs!
Trying to silence with fear and intimidation.

We the People will not go quietly without a fight!

In this case, the messengers ARE the message.

The "birther" message is paranoid, xenophobic, and racist and so are most of the messengers.

Paranoia is a thought process characterized by excessive anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. In the original Greek, παράνοια (paranoia) simply means madness (para = outside; nous = mind). Historically, this characterization was used to describe any delusional state.

Sometimes in common usage, the term paranoia is misused to describe a phobia[citation needed]. For example, a person may not want to fly out of fear the plane may crash. This does not in itself indicate paranoia, but rather a phobia. The lack of blame in this case usually points to the latter. An example of paranoia, however, would be fear that while watching an American Football game, the team huddle was talking about the person affected. An important feature of paranoid thinking is its centrality: that the paranoid person perceives themselves as central figures in an experienced scenario which may be either dangerous (persecutory) or self-exalting (grandiose) and interprets events which have no reference to them in reality as directed at or about them.

misused- "birthers" see obama as a threat to the Constitution and America, not themselves individually.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), the word xenophobia consists of two parts: xeno (a combining form meaning "guest, stranger, person that looks different, foreigner") and phobia, ("fear, horror or aversion, especially if morbid").[1]

It is more broadly defined in the Dictionary of Psychology "a fear of strangers". [2] As defined by the OED, it can mean a fear of or aversion to, not only persons from other countries, but other cultures, subcultures and subsets of belief systems; in short, anyone who meets any list of criteria about their origin, religion, personal beliefs, habits, language, orientations, or any other criteria.

adversion to a foreigner- with questios about his origin, religion, personal beliefs, habits, orientations--
Yep- we would like answers to those questions!


rac·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
Function: noun
Date: 1933
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Where does this apply?
The only ones mentioning race are obama supporters.
I personally don't care if he's green, orange, yellow, pink, or purple,
Is he Constitutionally eligible to serve as POTUS?
Only obama can answer that and he ain't talking!
He's doing everything he can to hide the facts!
Why does he feel the ned to hide the facts?

Teabaggers and Birthers are fellow travelers, aren't they?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/10-most-offensive-tea-par_n_187554.html

While sitting at the local farmers market peddling chops and steaks, I had the unfortunate experience of listening to our local Tea Party across the street a few weeks ago.

Actually, it was more like one guy with a PA and his wife was giving away free hot dogs.

Four hours of blather.

You should have heard the disgusted comments from the shoppers at the market.

I'm sorry I don't have a recording for you.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Tam- the problem exists in they won't accept anything for proof...If he presents a birth certificate this nutcase bunch will just say its forged- or altered....If he found witness that were at his birth- they wouldn't be believed....
This racist fearmongering- hatemongering bunch behind this won't be happy til they have anarchy in the streets- and their spokesmen- the Rush's, Anns and Hannity's all have their pockets full of the nutcases gold coins....

I think the article that Reader2 posted sums this up best-- this was vetted very well by McCain/Palin- and they know there is no evidence to the contrary or they would have brought it up...

McCain would have more right to challenge- and more standing in the courts than any other person...Or do you think McCain is a part of this huge worldwide conspiracy :???:

FACE IT OBAMA has not even tried to stop the nay sayers in fact he is feeding their fear by sealing ALL HIS RECORDS Oldtimer. He compounds the issue by paying lawyers to fight any attempts to have his records made public knowledge. WHY? Are these the actions of an innocent man?

Not only will the TRUTH set you free it will set Obama free. and If Obama doesn't fear it will set him free of the Presidency then why is he hiding the truth? :wink:

Oh and from what I have read the longer this issue festers the more the people that voted for him are coming to the same conclusion that he has to be hiding something if he is refusing to show the evidence. :wink:
 

Lonecowboy

Well-known member
badaxemoo said:
Lonecowboy said:
badaxemoo said:
In this case, the messengers ARE the message.

The "birther" message is paranoid, xenophobic, and racist and so are most of the messengers.

Paranoia is a thought process characterized by excessive anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. In the original Greek, παράνοια (paranoia) simply means madness (para = outside; nous = mind). Historically, this characterization was used to describe any delusional state.

Sometimes in common usage, the term paranoia is misused to describe a phobia[citation needed]. For example, a person may not want to fly out of fear the plane may crash. This does not in itself indicate paranoia, but rather a phobia. The lack of blame in this case usually points to the latter. An example of paranoia, however, would be fear that while watching an American Football game, the team huddle was talking about the person affected. An important feature of paranoid thinking is its centrality: that the paranoid person perceives themselves as central figures in an experienced scenario which may be either dangerous (persecutory) or self-exalting (grandiose) and interprets events which have no reference to them in reality as directed at or about them.

misused- "birthers" see obama as a threat to the Constitution and America, not themselves individually.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), the word xenophobia consists of two parts: xeno (a combining form meaning "guest, stranger, person that looks different, foreigner") and phobia, ("fear, horror or aversion, especially if morbid").[1]

It is more broadly defined in the Dictionary of Psychology "a fear of strangers". [2] As defined by the OED, it can mean a fear of or aversion to, not only persons from other countries, but other cultures, subcultures and subsets of belief systems; in short, anyone who meets any list of criteria about their origin, religion, personal beliefs, habits, language, orientations, or any other criteria.

adversion to a foreigner- with questios about his origin, religion, personal beliefs, habits, orientations--
Yep- we would like answers to those questions!


rac·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
Function: noun
Date: 1933
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Where does this apply?
The only ones mentioning race are obama supporters.
I personally don't care if he's green, orange, yellow, pink, or purple,
Is he Constitutionally eligible to serve as POTUS?
Only obama can answer that and he ain't talking!
He's doing everything he can to hide the facts!
Why does he feel the ned to hide the facts?

Teabaggers and Birthers are fellow travelers, aren't they?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/10-most-offensive-tea-par_n_187554.html

While sitting at the local farmers market peddling chops and steaks, I had the unfortunate experience of listening to our local Tea Party across the street a few weeks ago.

Actually, it was more like one guy with a PA and his wife was giving away free hot dogs.

Four hours of blather.

You should have heard the disgusted comments from the shoppers at the market.

I'm sorry I don't have a recording for you.

wow, you blew me right out of the water with that intelectual argument!
converted me right over to your way of thinking that's for sure.
Convinced me, obama's birth certificate certainly is a non issue now!!
Once you went from using words like xenophobic to words I can understand- like hotdogs- it all became clear to me!!
 

Bullhauler

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
alice said:
badaxemoo said:
In this case, the messengers ARE the message.

The "birther" message is paranoid, xenophobic, and racist and so are most of the messengers.

I must say I have to agree with this....especially the paranoid part. It's hard enough to live happily right now with all of the problems we, as a nation, are facing. Why anyone would want compound it by living in a state of paranoia over something this ridiculous is beyond me.

Alice

I see - so where then is the cert?

Which hospital was he born at?

Why does he spend thousands to hide the cert instead of $20 to bring it?

Why don't you sandhusker go to the wtf Nebraska courthouse and spend the $20 for YOUR birth certificate. You just might learn a thing or two. Just don't ask for the "long form" you might get laughed out of town.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
I've got a copy in my possession. Among other information, it lists not only my birthplace as a city, but also the hospital (one) and attending doctor.

Why do you think that Obama thinks it's in his best interests to spend thousands to keep his cert hidden instead of the $20 to provide it?
 
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