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Blackwater

A

Anonymous

Guest
The more I read and hear about this Blackwater and some other "mercenary" companies the US is hiring it makes me mad...Blackwater gets paid $1200 per day per man from the government-- which it pays back wages on an average of $600 a day to the employee...Most are 6 figure $ employees with many making more than General Petraus ($180,000)...

While we are paying our boots on the ground in our armed services a salary closer to the the $40,000 range....
According to several articles I read-- when the US soldiers still could not get bullet proof clothing and armored vehicles--and it couldn't be manufactured fast enough to equip the soldiers-- it was going to these "mercenary" groups...

Good old privatization.... :???: :(
 

Cal

Well-known member
Maybe the war effort should be privatized, if the mercenaries could just go in there and clean house without having their hands tied, and not having to worry if they're going to be charged with some war crime at every turn. War protests about bringing the mercenaries home just wouldn't have the same media appeal IMO. It looks like they build a pretty solid personnel carrier.

http://www.blackwaterusa.com/grizzly/
 

Ben H

Well-known member
Special Forces are getting offered 6 figure renlistment bonuses because they are loosing so many to companies like Blackwater. It's really a drop in the bucket for the government considering the training cost for these guys.
 

woranch

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
The more I read and hear about this Blackwater and some other "mercenary" companies the US is hiring it makes me mad...Blackwater gets paid $1200 per day per man from the government-- which it pays back wages on an average of $600 a day to the employee...Most are 6 figure $ employees with many making more than General Petraus ($180,000)...

While we are paying our boots on the ground in our armed services a salary closer to the the $40,000 range....
According to several articles I read-- when the US soldiers still could not get bullet proof clothing and armored vehicles--and it couldn't be manufactured fast enough to equip the soldiers-- it was going to these "mercenary" groups...

Good old privatization.... :???: :(



Why blame Blackwater because the goverment could not get bullet proof clothing and armored vehicles to soldiers. As far as paying Blackwater 1200 aday to keep men in Iraq, how much does it cost for a soldier per day? Try not to believe all you hear on cnn.


Would you put your life on the line everyday for $600?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
woranch said:
Oldtimer said:
The more I read and hear about this Blackwater and some other "mercenary" companies the US is hiring it makes me mad...Blackwater gets paid $1200 per day per man from the government-- which it pays back wages on an average of $600 a day to the employee...Most are 6 figure $ employees with many making more than General Petraus ($180,000)...

While we are paying our boots on the ground in our armed services a salary closer to the the $40,000 range....
According to several articles I read-- when the US soldiers still could not get bullet proof clothing and armored vehicles--and it couldn't be manufactured fast enough to equip the soldiers-- it was going to these "mercenary" groups...

Good old privatization.... :???: :(



Why blame Blackwater because the goverment could not get bullet proof clothing and armored vehicles to soldiers. As far as paying Blackwater 1200 aday to keep men in Iraq, how much does it cost for a soldier per day? Try not to believe all you hear on cnn.


Would you put your life on the line everyday for $600?

So you think "mercenaries" we (the US taxpayer) hire should be making $150,000-200,000 a year plus benis-- but the US grunt (thats possibly more in the line of fire than the blackwater folks) should only be paid $40,000... :???: :( :(

I also find it odd that our patriotic corporate world could build bulletproof clothing and armored vehicles enough for Blackwater- who had an almost unlimited State Department expense account to pay any cost for this armor------While they couldn't supply the US militaries contracted orders.... :???: :shock:

When Blackwater got their unlimited contract for New Orleans (Katrina) they charged $950 day per man- and paid employees $350 day......I wonder how much our National Guardsmen were paid a day for the same job?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
They're out of control.

"Blackwater USA tried to take at least two Iraqi military aircraft out of Iraq two years ago and refused to give the planes back when Iraqi officials sought to reclaim them, according to a congressional committee investigating the private security contractor.

Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, wants the company to provide all documents related to the attempted shipment and to explain where the aircraft are now.

In a letter sent Friday to Erik Prince, Blackwater's top executive, Waxman said he learned of the 2005 attempt from a military official who contacted the committee. That official is not identified in the letter, nor is the type of aircraft.

Waxman also is seeking a sweeping amount of information about Blackwater's business, including its contracts with the federal government, profits made since the company was founded a decade ago, Prince's personal earnings since 2001, and details about the payments to the families of Iraqis killed by Blackwater personnel.

Blackwater spokeswoman Anne Tyrrell said the company is cooperating with the committee but declined to comment further.

When Prince testified before the oversight committee on Oct. 2, he was asked to disclose financial data but declined to do so in an open setting, noting it would give his competitors an unfair edge.

"We're a private company and there's a key word there — private," Prince said.

In addition to his seven-page letter to Prince, Waxman also sent letters Friday to Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice seeking more information on Blackwater and its overseas operations.

Blackwater and two other security contractors share a $571 million annual contract to protect diplomats and others in Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel and other countries. The Iraq share of the contract accounts for about $520 million and the bulk of that total goes to Blackwater.

Waxman wants Rice to supply the oversight committee with particulars about a 2004 contract Blackwater received from State on a noncompetitive basis in 2004. He also wants investigative reports and any other documents related to the discharge of weapons and improper or unprofessional behavior by Blackwater personnel.

From Gates, Waxman wants records and individuals with specifics about a Sept. 16 shooting in Baghdad involving Blackwater guards that left 17 Iraqis dead and a Dec. 24, 2006, incident in which a Blackwater guard killed an Iraqi security worker.

The guard, Andrew Moonen, was subsequently flown out of Iraq and fired by Blackwater. The Justice Department is continuing to investigate the case.

In all three letters, Waxman wants the information provided by Nov. 2."

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2007/10/19/1036564-blackwater-wanted-iraqi-military-planes
 

woranch

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
woranch said:
Oldtimer said:
The more I read and hear about this Blackwater and some other "mercenary" companies the US is hiring it makes me mad...Blackwater gets paid $1200 per day per man from the government-- which it pays back wages on an average of $600 a day to the employee...Most are 6 figure $ employees with many making more than General Petraus ($180,000)...

While we are paying our boots on the ground in our armed services a salary closer to the the $40,000 range....
According to several articles I read-- when the US soldiers still could not get bullet proof clothing and armored vehicles--and it couldn't be manufactured fast enough to equip the soldiers-- it was going to these "mercenary" groups...

Good old privatization.... :???: :(






Why blame Blackwater because the goverment could not get bullet proof clothing and armored vehicles to soldiers. As far as paying Blackwater 1200 aday to keep men in Iraq, how much does it cost for a soldier per day? Try not to believe all you hear on cnn.


Would you put your life on the line everyday for $600?

So you think "mercenaries" we (the US taxpayer) hire should be making $150,000-200,000 a year plus benis-- but the US grunt (thats possibly more in the line of fire than the blackwater folks) should only be paid $40,000... :???: :( :(

I also find it odd that our patriotic corporate world could build bulletproof clothing and armored vehicles enough for Blackwater- who had an almost unlimited State Department expense account to pay any cost for this armor------While they couldn't supply the US militaries contracted orders.... :???: :shock:

When Blackwater got their unlimited contract for New Orleans (Katrina) they charged $950 day per man- and paid employees $350 day......I wonder how much our National Guardsmen were paid a day for the same job?


I think the U S grunts should make alot more than they do . But just like all trades you get paid for how well your trained and what you know .

As far as the corporate world building bulletproof clothing and armored vehicles for Blackwater . They employ only about 1000 men . The goverment needed over 175000 at the start of the war.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I think the U S grunts should make alot more than they do . But just like all trades you get paid for how well your trained and what you know .

Say What?---Blackwater is made up mostly of ex-grunts, and some ex police....Which has became one of the reasons the military is having a retention problem....
So you believe military folks are too bad of soldiers to be paid a decent wage until they are Blackstone trained-eh :???: :( :( Good only for cannon fodder.... :???:

As far as the corporate world building bulletproof clothing and armored vehicles for Blackwater . They employ only about 1000 men . The goverment needed over 175000 at the start of the war.

BSC is one of over 60 private security firms employed during the Iraq War to guard officials and installations, train Iraq's new army and police, and provide other support for occupation forces

Blackwater is currently the largest of the U.S. State Department's three private security contractors, providing a total of 987 contractors. Of the 987 provided, 744 are American citizens

It is estimated by the Pentagon and company representatives that there are 20,000 to 30,000 armed security contractors working in Iraq, and some estimates are as much as 100,000, though no official figures exist...

When asked by a member of Congress for financial information about his company, he declined to provide it. "We're a private company, and there's a key word there — private," Prince answered. Later he stated that the company could provide it at a future date if questions were submitted in writing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_USA

We don't know many of the answers- because as a "private company" he spit in the face of the taxpayers that fund him- and said he didn't have to give out that info.... :( :mad:

One source I found said that 1000 was close to the number of mercenary employees that have been killed in Iraq-- altho most sources say the number killed is around 200....Another little GW secret that's not open to the public..

Blackwater had 200 employees in N.O. alone, after Katrina...Many of the articles and the former employee I saw on TV said that Iraq is not their biggest contract with the US-and that they have many times more employees than 1000-many subcontracted to or from other agencies and other countries - and it wouldn't hurt them at all if kicked out of Iraq-- as the US has them employed all over the world, including in Afghanistan...

Now it appears to me as if there were between 20,000 to 100,000 mercenaries in Iraq alone-- that could have had a major impact on slowing down the ability to purchase and issue bulletproof and armored equipment to the troops.... :roll: :(

The 6 P's that GW, Cheney, and Rummy forgot about:

Prior
Planning
Prevents
P*ss
Poor
Performance
 

woranch

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
I think the U S grunts should make alot more than they do . But just like all trades you get paid for how well your trained and what you know .

Say What?---Blackwater is made up mostly of ex-grunts, and some ex police....Which has became one of the reasons the military is having a retention problem....
So you believe military folks are too bad of soldiers to be paid a decent wage until they are Blackstone trained-eh :???: :( :( Good only for cannon fodder.... :???:

As far as the corporate world building bulletproof clothing and armored vehicles for Blackwater . They employ only about 1000 men . The goverment needed over 175000 at the start of the war.

BSC is one of over 60 private security firms employed during the Iraq War to guard officials and installations, train Iraq's new army and police, and provide other support for occupation forces

Blackwater is currently the largest of the U.S. State Department's three private security contractors, providing a total of 987 contractors. Of the 987 provided, 744 are American citizens

It is estimated by the Pentagon and company representatives that there are 20,000 to 30,000 armed security contractors working in Iraq, and some estimates are as much as 100,000, though no official figures exist...

When asked by a member of Congress for financial information about his company, he declined to provide it. "We're a private company, and there's a key word there — private," Prince answered. Later he stated that the company could provide it at a future date if questions were submitted in writing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_USA

We don't know many of the answers- because as a "private company" he spit in the face of the taxpayers that fund him- and said he didn't have to give out that info.... :( :mad:

One source I found said that 1000 was close to the number of mercenary employees that have been killed in Iraq-- altho most sources say the number killed is around 200....Another little GW secret that's not open to the public..

Blackwater had 200 employees in N.O. alone, after Katrina...Many of the articles and the former employee I saw on TV said that Iraq is not their biggest contract with the US-and that they have many times more employees than 1000-many subcontracted to or from other agencies and other countries - and it wouldn't hurt them at all if kicked out of Iraq-- as the US has them employed all over the world, including in Afghanistan...

Now it appears to me as if there were between 20,000 to 100,000 mercenaries in Iraq alone-- that could have had a major impact on slowing down the ability to purchase and issue bulletproof and armored equipment to the troops.... :roll: :(

The 6 P's that GW, Cheney, and Rummy forgot about:

Prior
Planning
Prevents
P*ss
Poor
Performance


You want to condem the men that work for blackwater for what the owner does or says.
You like most people had not even heard of blackwater until a few weeks ago .But after Iraq said citizens were killed by blackwater they are now the evil ones in Iraq .
If you want to condem for killing citizens you will have to look at the military also/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20071021bcusiraq_attn_national_foreign_editors_ytop

AND yes I'm going to guess that most of blackwater employes are better trained than a PFC with his first gun in his hand.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
You and I will never agree on this WO--And truthfully up until a month ago, I wasn't aware of Blackwater, by name-- but I was aware of several other Security "mercenary" Companies that operate both in the US and around the world- most in an executive protection role - but some that have also hired out and fought wars and civil wars for 3rd world countries- choosing the side by who had the most money to put up...I have even attended 2 Diplomat, Witness, and Executive protection schools instructed by the US Marshals office and one of these companies...

Historically Embassy/Diplomat security has been the job of the US military and the Bureau of Diplomatic Security which is the law enforcement and security arm of the State Department...All trained for those positions- and all sworn to protect our laws and constitution-- and in the case of the military folks, none making the salaries that these private mercenaries are making...

But the main issue to me is the direction our country is taking if they are going from having sworn personel (BDS Special Agents or military) to using hired guns for these jobs- that essentially answer to and have no legal control by any government official (anyone) while operating in Iraq... Even CIA operatives are controlled by the CIA and if not under the jurisdiction of the US when operating overseas fall under the laws of the country they are in...But in this case- US mandates took that jurisdiction from the Iraqui government- and US law does not cover them out of country--especially since many are foreign nationals from all over the world...

Is this the new direction of our country- to hire a paid "civilian" army and law enforcement-- and pay them at a much higher rate than the sworn officials... :???: Have we depleted our military and law enforcement so greatly we have to call up a paid posse of mercenaries :???: I have a great fear of armed law enforcement/militia groups whose only sworn allegiance is to who can pay them the most money :shock:
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Is this the new direction of our country- to hire a paid "civilian" army and law enforcement-- and pay them at a much higher rate than the sworn officials... :???: Have we depleted our military and law enforcement so greatly we have to call up a paid posse of mercenaries :???: I have a great fear of armed law enforcement/militia groups whose only sworn allegiance is to who can pay them the most money :shock:
You and others like you who cry and whine that we're losing troops (In a WAR none the less) could be the reason we are resorting to nonmilitary warriors. If they get killed in action, everyone realizes it was part of their job. If your neighbor gets KIA then for some reason you and ff and others like you say they joined for the benifits and never imagined fighting in a hot zone. :shock:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Red Robin said:
Oldtimer said:
Is this the new direction of our country- to hire a paid "civilian" army and law enforcement-- and pay them at a much higher rate than the sworn officials... :???: Have we depleted our military and law enforcement so greatly we have to call up a paid posse of mercenaries :???: I have a great fear of armed law enforcement/militia groups whose only sworn allegiance is to who can pay them the most money :shock:
You and others like you who cry and whine that we're losing troops (In a WAR none the less) could be the reason we are resorting to nonmilitary warriors. If they get killed in action, everyone realizes it was part of their job. If your neighbor gets KIA then for some reason you and ff and others like you say they joined for the benifits and never imagined fighting in a hot zone. :shock:


ATT000011.jpg
 

woranch

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Red Robin said:
Oldtimer said:
Is this the new direction of our country- to hire a paid "civilian" army and law enforcement-- and pay them at a much higher rate than the sworn officials... :???: Have we depleted our military and law enforcement so greatly we have to call up a paid posse of mercenaries :???: I have a great fear of armed law enforcement/militia groups whose only sworn allegiance is to who can pay them the most money :shock:
You and others like you who cry and whine that we're losing troops (In a WAR none the less) could be the reason we are resorting to nonmilitary warriors. If they get killed in action, everyone realizes it was part of their job. If your neighbor gets KIA then for some reason you and ff and others like you say they joined for the benifits and never imagined fighting in a hot zone. :shock:


ATT000011.jpg


:lol: :lol: :lol: Very good
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
jigs said:
I hope Jessie and Al go over to the oficial opening of that highway.......

could be a one way ticket!


Not them...but GW needs to go cause without him and him alone, it would never have existed.
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
You andIs this the new direction of our country- to hire a paid "civilian" army and law enforcement-- and pay them at a much higher rate than the sworn officials... :???: Have we depleted our military and law enforcement so greatly we have to call up a paid posse of mercenaries :???: I have a great fear of armed law enforcement/militia groups whose only sworn allegiance is to who can pay them the most money :shock:

Blackwater is/was hired not to replace our army, in fact their primary function is to PROTECT high ranking officials ans state department officials during visits to Iraq.

They are not mercenaries as the true definition of a person who hires into FORIEGN SERVICE. Blackwater personell are american citizens hired by the state department to work as protectors for state deparment officials!!
Once again the liberal press only gives half the story and the liberal believers take it as fact.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hopalong said:
Oldtimer said:
You andIs this the new direction of our country- to hire a paid "civilian" army and law enforcement-- and pay them at a much higher rate than the sworn officials... :???: Have we depleted our military and law enforcement so greatly we have to call up a paid posse of mercenaries :???: I have a great fear of armed law enforcement/militia groups whose only sworn allegiance is to who can pay them the most money :shock:

Blackwater is/was hired not to replace our army, in fact their primary function is to PROTECT high ranking officials ans state department officials during visits to Iraq.

They are not mercenaries as the true definition of a person who hires into FORIEGN SERVICE. Blackwater personell are american citizens hired by the state department to work as protectors for state deparment officials!!
Once again the liberal press only gives half the story and the liberal believers take it as fact.

That's not true. Blackwater employes Chilean nationals, mostly former soldiers, in Iraq. They are NOT American citizens. They are mercenaries.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hopalong said:
Oldtimer said:
You andIs this the new direction of our country- to hire a paid "civilian" army and law enforcement-- and pay them at a much higher rate than the sworn officials... :???: Have we depleted our military and law enforcement so greatly we have to call up a paid posse of mercenaries :???: I have a great fear of armed law enforcement/militia groups whose only sworn allegiance is to who can pay them the most money :shock:

Blackwater is/was hired not to replace our army, in fact their primary function is to PROTECT high ranking officials ans state department officials during visits to Iraq.

They are not mercenaries as the true definition of a person who hires into FORIEGN SERVICE. Blackwater personell are american citizens hired by the state department to work as protectors for state deparment officials!!
Once again the liberal press only gives half the story and the liberal believers take it as fact.

Hopalong-- I watched the House oversight committee hearings the other night (couldn't sleep after the ballgame)-- when Condi appeared in front of them--and the State Departments hiring of Blackwater and other "security" firms was a major screwup- just for the reasons I stated before--NO legal jurisdiction over them :shock: :shock:

They could commit and possibly did commit any crime while on foreign soil- and since the State Department is not included under the same law that military contractors are that gives military and federal jurisdiction over contractors- they are essentially- untouchables-- no matter the crime- even murder ( one of which the FBI is investigating--but that will not even be able to be prosecuted if proven)...And as she admitted- not all are American citizens as some are ex-military/police from foreign nations that they hire...

Now the State Department is asking for a law to fix that jurisdictional problem...

Interesting hearing-- about the $750 million dollar new US embassy complex ( the largest US embassy in the world--including swimming pools) that is now found to be completely and totally flawed so bad that they won't accept it (was supposed to be occupied in Sept :roll: )-- and the fact that the State Department fellow in charge of the building oversight was run out of the country by the US Ambassador- so has had no oversight on it for the last 6 months...But since that was a "personnel" issue that had to be taken up behind closed doors....That and the fact that the CEO of the company contracted (Kuwaiti Intl) to build the embassy is now under investigation for bribing and giving kickbacks to government officials, who have already admitted to the offers....

Condi's admission that when she took over their was NO competent tracking of where money was being spent on many contracts- like the $1.2 Billion to the company that was supposed to train the police-- which the military is now saying are totally incompetent and corrupt....

Just war profitteering at its best!! :wink: :(
 
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