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Texan

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How'd this work out?

From August, 2009:

fff said:
Did you see this?

The Commodity Futures Trading Commission plans to issue a report next month suggesting speculators played a significant role in driving wild swings in oil prices -- a reversal of an earlier CFTC position that augurs intensifying scrutiny on investors.

In a contentious report last year, the main U.S. futures-market regulator pinned oil-price swings primarily on supply and demand. But that analysis was based on "deeply flawed data," Bart Chilton, one of four CFTC commissioners, said in an interview Monday.

The CFTC's new review, due to be released in August, adds fuel to a growing debate over financial investors who bet on the direction of commodities prices by buying contracts tied to indexes. These speculators have invested hundreds of billions of dollars in contracts that were once dominated by producers and consumers who sought to hedge against oil-market volatility.....

Finally someone is going to look at the speculators who caused that $4 gasoline. Think of the $$ millions Americans could have been spending on other stuff, or even saving, instead of putting it into the gas tank to get to work. Grrr.

Oldtimer said:
GW could have cared less if the common folks were suffering as long as his wealthy and elitist friends were profiteering....

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=397760#397760

It seems that the President is requesting more money from Congress to make this happen now. Did he not follow through three years ago when you guys were bragging about it? Just now getting around to it?

It looks to me like he's wanting to shift the blame to Congress by asking for money that he knows they won't give him because the country can't afford it. But, why does he need more money when you libs claimed he was taking care of it three years ago?

What say you, Oldtimer? Where does the buck stop now? You blamed "GW" for high gas prices when he was President, so how can you be so silent on this issue now?
 
A

Anonymous

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..Oil Speculators Must Be Stopped and the CFTC “Needs to Obey the Law”: Sen. Bernie Sanders
..By Morgan Korn
Wed, Mar 7, 2012 1:29 PM


The recent rise in gasoline prices has prompted Congressional hearings and a call to federal regulators to curb what many see as the cause for the spike: oil speculators.

A House subcommittee held a hearing on "The American Energy Initiative" Wednesday morning that focused solely on rising pump prices. Seventy members of Congress signed a letter this week to regulators at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), urging immediate action on oil speculation by enacting "strong position limits" and to "utilize all authorities available to…make sure that the price of oil and gasoline reflects the fundamentals of supply and demand."

The CFTC was given authority in the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act to impose position caps on oil traders beginning in January 2011. These limits have not yet been implemented by the CFTC. In an interview Wednesday with The Daily Ticker, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) says the CFTC doesn't "have the will" to enact these limits and "needs to obey the law."

"What we need to do is…limit the amount of oil any one company can control on the oil futures market," says Sanders, who has long advocated limits on speculation. "The function of these speculators is not to use oil but to make profits from speculation, drive prices up and sell."

The average price of a gallon of gasoline in the U.S. has increased nearly 30 cents in one month according to the AAA's Daily Fuel Gauge Report. U.S. oil prices have jumped more than six percent since Feb. 1 even though oil demand in the U.S. is at its lowest level since April 2007. The International Energy Agency (IEA) reported that the world's oil supply rose by 1.3 million barrels a day in the last three months of 2011 while world demand increased just 0.7 million barrels per day during that same time period.

This is not the first time oil speculators have been blamed for higher energy prices. In 2008 U.S. oil prices skyrocketed to $145 per barrel and gasoline prices averaged well above $4 per gallon. There were calls to increase domestic offshore drilling and legislation was proposed that would have required buyers of oil to physically own and store the oil barrels. Then the 2008 financial crisis hit causing oil and gasoline prices to plummet.

Blaming the speculators may seem like scapegoating to some (namely, oil traders) but speculators control more than 80 percent of the energy futures market, up from 30 percent a decade ago, and there is mounting evidence that speculation contributes to higher prices:

•At a Senate hearing last June, Rex Tillerson, the CEO of ExxonMobil, said speculation was driving up the price of a barrel of oil by as much as 40 percent.

•A study conducted by the nonpartisan consumer advocacy group Consumer Federation of America found that speculation caused the average American household to spend an additional $600 on gasoline expenditures in 2011. Moreover, the report concluded that excessive speculation (which the organization estimated added about $30 per barrel to the cost of oil in 2011) drained the U.S. economy of more than $200 billion in consumer spending in 2011.

•The St. Louis Federal Reserve has also recommended that the CFTC do more to prevent oil speculators from driving up the price of oil. Fed officials studied the effect of oil traders on the price oil over five years and determined that "speculation contributed to around 15 percent to oil prices increases."

•CFTC Chair Gary Gensler declared last year that "huge inflows of speculative money create a self-fulfilling prophecy that drives up commodity prices."
There are many components reflected in the current price of oil, including old-fashioned supply and demand and geopolitical factors (such as a possible attack on Iran). Rising gasoline prices are a huge pocketbook issue for many Americans, a reason alone for politicians to focus on the role of the speculators.

It appears to me like the call has gone out for the CFTC to act..But you are right- the investigative and enforcement arms of the CFTC were so gutted during the Bush administration that it may not yet be able to enforce the rules they were finally given access to last year when they do implement them.....
..
 

TSR

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In '08 crude was $145 a barrel and gas was averaging $4/gal???? Geesh :wink:
 

hypocritexposer

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TSR said:
In '08 crude was $145 a barrel and gas was averaging $4/gal???? Geesh :wink:


What caused the decrease in prices, before the end of Bush's term?

Here's a hint:


Increase in Federal drilling permits
Clinton 58% Bush 116% Obama -36%
 
A

Anonymous

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hypocritexposer said:
TSR said:
In '08 crude was $145 a barrel and gas was averaging $4/gal???? Geesh :wink:


What caused the decrease in prices, before the end of Bush's term?

You forget about the Bush Bust already?
 

hypocritexposer

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Oldtimer said:
It appears to me like the call has gone out for the CFTC to act..But you are right- the investigative and enforcement arms of the CFTC were so gutted during the Bush administration that it may not yet be able to enforce the rules they were finally given access to last year when they do implement them.....
..


I wonder if the Dems. are shifting the blame? :roll:

If you are going to blame speculation for the price of oil, at least give credit, where credit is due.


Kenneth Medlock and Amy Myers Jaffe blame the Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000 for today's oil market woes, and say the government should crack down on the non-commercial oil market speculators. (They say this in a new paper published by Rice University’s Baker Institute for Public Policy.)

When Bill Clinton made the CMFA a law, it "effectively cleared the way for more lax regulation of new oil risk management products," Medlock and Jaffe say. Before it came into law only 20% of the action in the oil market was from non-commercial participants. Today it's around 50%. These non-commercial players are affecting prices:

Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2009-08-28/green_sheet/29954188_1_oil-market-amy-myers-jaffe-oil-prices#ixzz1sSElcBNm
 

hypocritexposer

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Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
TSR said:
In '08 crude was $145 a barrel and gas was averaging $4/gal???? Geesh :wink:


What caused the decrease in prices, before the end of Bush's term?

You forget about the Bush Bust already?

The bust was a result of a law that was signed before Bush was President


legislation prohibiting regulation of derivatives by Born's agency was passed by the Congress.
 

loomixguy

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Oldtimer said:
You forget about the Bush Bust already?

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Give it up, Old Whiskey Breath...that horse is DEAD. The problems now all belong to your chosen hero and champion. Much more and we can all say "Obama Oblivion", "Barack Bust", or, it's "All because of the Ni**er behind the Trigger!"

Remember, your Champeen WANTED the problems, he CAMPAIGNED for the problems, he promised to FIX the problems, and all his skippy azz did was worsen things tenfold! I fail to see how things could now be any worse had Hitlary OR McCain been elected....... :roll:
 

Big Muddy rancher

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As I understand it all they need to go is make the transaction of buying oil more expensive as the trader can buy huge amounts of oil and sell it with out laying out very much cash. Enough oil in fact to make the market rise then turn around and sell the paper oil at a profit.
 

hypocritexposer

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"People who argue that speculation is generally destabilizing seldom realize that this is largely equivalent to saying that speculators lose money, since speculation can be destabilizing in general only if speculators on the average sell when the currency is low in price and buy when it is high."

Milton Friedman, 1953
 

Whitewing

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Oldtimer said:
..But you are right- the investigative and enforcement arms of the CFTC were so gutted during the Bush administration..

I have no clue if that statement is correct or not, but since you have a long history of pulling assertions out of your ass when you believe they support your argument, I ask you to please provide proof that the Bush administration gutted the investigative and enforcement arms of the CFTC.

I won't hold my breath waiting for your proof.
 

Sandhusker

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Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
TSR said:
In '08 crude was $145 a barrel and gas was averaging $4/gal???? Geesh :wink:


What caused the decrease in prices, before the end of Bush's term?

You forget about the Bush Bust already?

There was a bust that occured during Bush's presidency, but it had Democrat fingerprints all over it.
 

Texan

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Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
..But you are right- the investigative and enforcement arms of the CFTC were so gutted during the Bush administration..

I have no clue if that statement is correct or not, but since you have a long history of pulling assertions out of your ass when you believe they support your argument, I ask you to please provide proof that the Bush administration gutted the investigative and enforcement arms of the CFTC.

I won't hold my breath waiting for your proof.
I'd also be interested in seeing that proof. Would you mind providing a link for us, Oldtimer? I've looked for something and can't find anything to back up your claim.
 

Tam

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Texan said:
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
..But you are right- the investigative and enforcement arms of the CFTC were so gutted during the Bush administration..

I have no clue if that statement is correct or not, but since you have a long history of pulling assertions out of your ass when you believe they support your argument, I ask you to please provide proof that the Bush administration gutted the investigative and enforcement arms of the CFTC.

I won't hold my breath waiting for your proof.
I'd also be interested in seeing that proof. Would you mind providing a link for us, Oldtimer? I've looked for something and can't find anything to back up your claim.

YOU LOOKED :shock: Silly man Oldtimer said it and you wasted your time looking :lol: :lol: :lol: Hint save your time :wink:
 

Texan

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Tam said:
YOU LOOKED :shock: Silly man Oldtimer said it and you wasted your time looking :lol: :lol: :lol: Hint save your time :wink:
And what's even worse - it's not the first time that I've fallen for it. :oops:

I've spent HOURS looking for some of the **** he claims. :dunce:
 

cowman52

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When you and all your advisors have spent every waking minute in the faculty lounge Each telling each other how the business world would be so much better off if just the right ideas were implemented, and then your minions in congress can fudge the regs just enough to Make a nice profit well now you have a huge pile of finger pointing during an election so maybe nobody will notice.


Sound like a campaign that is better than telling all the good you have accomplished.x
 

TSR

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All I can remember is Pres. Bush stating the US economy is on "sound footing" and a couple of weeks later nearing the end of his tenure in office, he was begging for Congress to pass a bailout on national TV. I guess I was one of the few that saw it. :roll: Its why the republican's idea of going back to relaxing regulations on ALL businesses including the conglomerates is facing so much scrutiny today. Americans, I don't think are that stupid to go back to the absence of regulations that had a great deal to do in leading to the, the, BUSH BUST. BTW did you hear the former president Bush say he didn't want his name associated with the Bush Tax Cuts??
 

hypocritexposer

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TSR said:
All I can remember is Pres. Bush stating the US economy is on "sound footing" and a couple of weeks later nearing the end of his tenure in office, he was begging for Congress to pass a bailout on national TV. I guess I was one of the few that saw it. :roll: Its why the republican's idea of going back to relaxing regulations on ALL businesses including the conglomerates is facing so much scrutiny today. Americans, I don't think are that stupid to go back to the absence of regulations that had a great deal to do in leading to the, the, BUSH BUST. BTW did you hear the former president Bush say he didn't want his name associated with the Bush Tax Cuts??


:lol:

lack of regulations, AGAIN, really?

OTC Derivatives market Reform

By
Henry C.K. Liu

Part I: The Folly of Deregulation


Part II: The Courageous Brooksley Born


In November 1999, Greenspan, Rubin, Levitt and Born’s replacement at CFTC, William Rainer, submitted a President’s Working Group report on derivatives. They recommended no CFTC regulation, saying that it “would otherwise perpetuate legal uncertainty or impose unnecessary regulatory burdens and constraints upon the development of these markets in the United States.”

Clinton Signed Gramm-Leach-Bailey Act to Repeal Glass-Steagall

On November 12, 1999, a lame duck President Clinton signed into law the Gramm-Leach-Bailey Financial Services Modernization Act (GLBA) which repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, the New Deal era legislation designed to control financial speculation. GLBA reverses the Glass-Steagall separation of commercial and investment banks and allows them to re-consolidate. The repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, by combining the conflicting roles of lending institutions and security issuing institutions, facilitated the development of structured finance and debt securitization that contributed structurally to the 2007 credit crisis.


http://www.henryckliu.com/page211.html



When Bill Clinton made the CMFA a law, it "effectively cleared the way for more lax regulation of new oil risk management products," Medlock and Jaffe say. Before it came into law only 20% of the action in the oil market was from non-commercial participants. Today it's around 50%. These non-commercial players are affecting prices:

Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2009-08-28/green_sheet/29954188_1_oil-market-amy-myers-jaffe-oil-prices#ixzz1sSElcBNm
 

Tam

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TSR said:
All I can remember is Pres. Bush stating the US economy is on "sound footing"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPSDnGMzIdo&feature=related


Yep Bush said nothing :roll:

Just like Bush lied about Iraq's WMD

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

TSR you can't rewrite history when we are still living it and when we have the internet to research what really was going on while we weren't paying close attention. :roll:
 

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