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border collie puppies

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hopalong

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have some border collie puppies for sale

impressive herding back ground from mill iron s ranch in idaho and lynn daniels in ok. championships both goats/sheep and cattle, foot or horse back

ABCA registered, shots, wormed, vet inspected,

they are social, being handled by myself, my wife, or grand kids almost daily , ready to go n about two weeks.
brn/white,,, brown/white tris ,,, black and white...
we have sold and shipped puppies from one coast to the other and have some repeat customers

for more info, prices, and pictures pm me or email [email protected]
 

mrj

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Sounds like fun to me! But this ranch would have to send the whole crew for intensive training to learn to manage working dogs, and I suspect at least one 'senior member' would be far more difficult to train than any of the dogs. We do really well working cattle with horses nearly every time, tho 'moon sign' may have occasional negative influence, and we don't know enough about that situation, either. Any system, when it is working well, is such a pleasure to participate in, and can be a real wreck when is isn't working well.

So, any chance of you sharing some film on this forum, of working dogs, from pups learning the ropes, to championship working dogs showing us how it should be done?

We have only seen a very few contests at fairs, etc. A memorable one was near the civic center in Rapid City, along Rapid Creek, with the creek figuring into the contest humorously when some people relaxing in the area felt they should 'help' the dogs when some sheep jumped into the creek. There were dogs, sheep, and 'bystanders' all in the water and the dog handlers were in a significant state of confusion as to how to proceed. It did appear that some of the 'bystanders' had been drinking something stronger than creek water!!!! I'm not sure it was during the actual contest, or a practice session, and was the only time we happened to be in the right place at the right time to see it.

mrj
 

Faster horses

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mrj, if your cows aren't used to dogs, that's some training in itself. Talk about chaotic. :shock:


Good dogs are wonderful helpers but the cows have to be used to dogs. Not sure where you would start. A lot of dogs maybe. Well-trained and very obedient dogs. Oh I can see it now............but I don't wanna........ :lol: :help: :gag:
 

mrj

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Nor do I want to see it! And especially here, I wouldn't want to hear the discussion after the event!!!!

My idea was for the entertainment value of the films of working dogs learning to work, and of the expert ones doing their job in contest or in pastures.

Actually, I'm not sure we want our cows used to dogs, as we have lots of coyotes here and even with calving in large pastures, we very rarely lose a calf to coyotes. I mean virtually never. One incident I do recall, the cow was down after difficult calving of backward calf. The calf got its tail chewed off, before someone got to the scene and brought the pair home. Hate for those things to happen, but in range conditions, they can. just thankful it has been extremely rare.


mrj
 

Faster horses

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After always having working dogs, I will say the cows know the difference between a working dog and a coyote. At least ours did and I know others who say the same thing. Not trying to talk you into anything, just letting you know. We were always short-handed when working or moving cattle, and a good dog was very valuable. We have been blessed to have had some really good ones. Maybe because Mr. FH is so good with dogs. They were always in his control, even when we had 3 three at once. They NEVER went through the cows at calving time, but stayed to the outside where they were nearby if they were needed. That seems to be a natural thing with a working dog.

There was a horse for sale on Facebook, and I always look at those. This time there was a dog in the picture, a dog that looked just like our very best dog so I complimented the horse and then asked about the dog. No one seemed to know what she was or where she came from. I'd sure take another if I could find one. Ours came from Pete Birrers who worked on a ranch that was sold to Ted Turner. They had raised them for many years and the dogs were known as "The Birrers Dogs" and were famous in that part of SW Montana. They have a definite look to them and you don't see many.

Here she is as a pup. She had the cows utmost respect as an older dog. She was tough as nails. Too bad they get old. :cry2:

 

WB

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Working cow dogs are a real treat to watch. The respect cows show for them is amazing also. This does not diminish the cow's maternal responsibilities when a predator comes calling. Personally I couldn't live without my dog. A good dog desensitizes cattle making them easier to handle. An uncontrolled dog that engages cattle is a disaster. FWIW I never grew up around working dogs but I have great respect for them after observing my current dog in action.
 

Big Muddy rancher

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Not quite ready for a puppy but it won't be long as our old dog is 9. him and my young dog I got from Randilianna (SP) work good together.
My son and DIL got a BC pup for a wedding present. She is a smart pup and knows the commands except when she sees a cow. The other day my son went to move is small herd to better pasture and they wouldn't follow for oats so he took a chance and let the pup out, she gathered up the back end and pushed them along, he just kept off to the side with the truck. Kodi moved them about a mile, Lane was pretty proud of her and she slept good that night.
 

hopalong

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a good working dog or two are better than most hands are.

used to do a lot of ai work and would take a couple of my dogs with me to work the pens, people would just stand back and watch, knowing the dogs could do a better job than they could..
While i never done it, Lynn Daniels of OK has his dogs trained to load a trailer with no help parked in a pasture using a whistle or a clicker,
good dogs are better company that most cowhands lol
 

hopalong

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for some reason i just cant seem to up load pictures
 

Brad S

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Like FH, I've never used a dog around young pairs. Always wondered about pairing out with a dog, but don't think that's a good idea.

Mrj is right, dog education begins with the cowboy. That big open northern country is fine for horses, but brushy pastures in Kansas or Oklahoma will make your dog very important.

I know a young kid that loads out cattle at Torrington wy. A bull went to wooling him around until his dog intervened. Likely saved his life.
 

Faster horses

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Not that we haven't used dogs around young pairs. Our good dog would watch the gate when we paired out. She knew just what to do and where to be. She was like having another person there and she didn't make many mistakes. Those cows had so much respect for her, honestly we would move cows with Mr. FH in the lead and me bringing up the rear horseback. She would come back to check on me and while most dogs would go out and around the cows, she would go right down the middle of them; the cows never bothered her, just let her through. She gave no quarter. That was one tough smart dog. She never ever barked at a cow either. Next dog was a real nice Aussie Heeler cross and pretty worthless. He ruined the cows because he was afraid of them and they learned that real quick. Interesting.

We would NEVER take our good dog, or any of our working dogs to a place where the cows weren't used to dogs. It just wasn't fair to the dog and would have caused a lot of problems.
 

hopalong

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around the trials of working dogs they insist on using cattle that are totally unused and not familiar with dogs,, that's why when I was training I went to the sale barn and brought the rankest cattle i could buy to work with my dogs I think you will find most trainers feel that way,,,,,,,,ANY decent dog can work stock that are used to being worked,,,, a good dog will make those rank ones pussy cats..
jmho
 

Faster horses

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hopalong said:
around the trials of working dogs they insist on using cattle that are totally unused and not familiar with dogs,, that's why when I was training I went to the sale barn and brought the rankest cattle i could buy to work with my dogs I think you will find most trainers feel that way,,,,,,,,ANY decent dog can work stock that are used to being worked,,,, a good dog will make those rank ones p***y cats..
jmho



DogS (plural) being the key. :D ) One dog in a bunch of cattle that aren't dog broke is at a real disadvantage. Besides getting the cattle riled up, you get the owner riled up. If they wanted dogs on their cattle, they would have dogs. That's when we leave our dog/dogs at home. :D
 

hopalong

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2 good dogs can replace 5 cowboys on horses, plus there are trials that use more than one dog on a herd of cattle,, work as a team, so I beg to differ with you????" but every one has an opinion on using dogs, guess that's why there are so many breeders and trainers around the US making more money on the ,,,dogs than they do cattle,,, look at it this way a good breeder will get 6 (av) ina litter, each puppy untrained will go out the door in 8 weeks, and bring $750 up that's only a bout $4500 bucks for 8 or 9 weeks,,,, besides the puppies are cute :D :D :D :D :D :D
 

mrj

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Interesting thread. There probly are quite a few cowboys like those 5! Just as there are too many dogs that aren't great at working cattle. Good that there are also some that are great at either style of working cattle!

mrj
 

WB

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MRI, till you have seen one in action you won't understand, I once was on your side of the fence. I never grew up around a real working dog. I shudder to think what mine might be if he had a real trainer. The cattle handle totally different after they are exposed to dogs it is really hard to explain in words.
 

mrj

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The only 'fence' I'm on one side of is working cattle easily without getting them spoiled! Whether with dogs or horses, the important thing is keeping the cattle moving easily. And I believe that depends on all involved, cattle, dogs or horses, and especially those handling the horses or dogs. I doubt there is any method that doesn't end in the occasional debacle, even with the best of 'hands' (which I mean to include cowboys, dogs, and horses!) The cattle are a whole other entity, given their occasional episodes I can only attribute to 'wrong sign of the moon for working cattle'. Thankfully, that is rare around here!

I believe I've stated previously that it is really fun and interesting to watch good handlers and good dogs working sheep or cattle.

mrj
 

hopalong

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thanks for all who shared an interest in my puppies,, glad to say they have all been sold,,,all but one went to ranches to become working dogs, the other one I donated to the VFW to be trained as a service dog for PSTD patients,,, second one I have donated like that.
 

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