Jason
Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Not exactly true Sandhusker... anyone can sue anybody for anything... a "case" is not needed, just cash and a lawyer.
Imagine a guy suing a breeder because 1 bull didn't cover 73 cows! It has happened.
Brain sample still "lying around" says Mt. news co
- Thread starter Border rancher
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Not exactly true Sandhusker... anyone can sue anybody for anything... a "case" is not needed, just cash and a lawyer.
Imagine a guy suing a breeder because 1 bull didn't cover 73 cows! It has happened.
Jason
Well-known member
rkaiser said:This thread has a little of everything on it. New trend or what?
Jason and Murgen have been touching on the Cargil purchase of Better Beef in Guelph. Do you guys realise that the deal is not final and the competition bureau has meetings planned for next week. Guess what, one grassroots producer group has been invited to give their view on the situation which would see Cargil take another big chunk of the Canadian slaughter capacity pie.
I can only imagine Jasons response to the fact that BIG C will be standing against another monopolistic move by the Multinationals in Canada.
I could care less who is killing the cattle as long as they get it done.
If Big C is such a great group where is there slaughter house? I wish them well and hope they build one instead of just whine about the big boys expanding.
Too many of these "grassroots" outfits are started just to promote the guys who started them. I know of several plants that haven't got a chance of starting up because of who is behind them. The Balzac plant is already up and running and building an expansion to boot. Other plants have had the time, those that will fly are past the talking stage.
When your plant is running give me a call if you want to bid on a few fats.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
Jason said:
Sure, anyone can sue, but R-CALF did more than sue - they got a ruling.
Maple Leaf Angus
Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
. . .and once again, Sandhusker, Michael Jackson got his aquittal. Does that prove anything about your legal system?
Sandhusker
Well-known member
Maple Leaf Angus said:
I don't think Jackson's trial would of had the same outcome if the jurors were from Nebraska! We would of thrown Jackson in jail for, well being Michael Jackson. We also would of thrown the kid's parents in jail for child endangerment, and we would of thrown a few lawyers in jail just for taking up our time.
Just a quick word about the "michael' thing. If he would have been found quilty, how much turmoil and rioting would have happened because there was not a colored person on the jury, and with all the hype about racism etc? :???:
rkaiser
Well-known member
Wow Jason you are the smartest guy in Canada.Take a look at what Charlie Gracey has to say in this months Cattlemens magazine. The problem in Canada right now is lack of competition in the marketplace.
I can't belive what an uninformed drone you are Jason. BIG C is trying to help the situation for people like you who are simply out for themselves, and people like you are what makes it hard for us to stay positive and keep up the good fight. Balzac is far from up and running, other than a very small number of head being killed at Innisfail and processed at Balzac. Other that that the large majority of packer expansion in this country has been done by Cargil, Tyson, and Xcel.
If you had one clue about BIG C, you would know that Cam Ostercamp, Doug Fraser, Grant Hirshe, Randy Kaiser, and others have invested nothing but time and money trying to create competition in the marketplace with no more hope for personal gain than you will realize. The BIG C concept is something that could happen in 2 or 5 or 10 years, and would still help the producers of this country. Make fun, while the Agriculture Minister of this country, and a whole lot more government and industry leaders take our proposal very seriously.
Who are you Jason. A negative little dweeb who wants attention for your stand for capitalism. I say BS to that. Cargil and Tyson are doing what they do because they have drones like yourself sucked in to believing everything is fine. IT is not fine. They are playing the game, but the game needs to be fixed. We are operating in a dysfuntional market where these multinational companies are within the law. They are certainly taking advantage, and depending on unwilling folks like yourself to fend for themselves.
Take a look around Jason, even those good old boys who talked of the naivety of BIG C a year ago are seeing the merits of our opinions. Charely Gracey is a close friend of Cam, and I have spoken with him numerous times about the state of affairs in this country.
Crawl back in your hole when it comes to doing something positive Jason, and then come and call me a blamer, or a whiner some more.
Your knowledge would be an asset if you had an iota of respect for any other Rancher in Canada except for yourself.
Ya I'm p%^&d. And I also just wasted my time, I'm sure.
Maple Leaf Angus
Well-known member
Murgen said:
Hahaha! What colour would you call Jackson?
Mike
Well-known member
Maple Leaf Angus said:
The old folks around here would call him a "High Yellow" or "Mulatto".
Haven't heard those words in years. Are they Politically incorrect?
Jason
Well-known member
rkaiser said:
Take a look at what Charlie Gracey has to say in this months Cattlemens magazine. The problem in Canada right now is lack of competition in the marketplace.
I can't belive what an uninformed drone you are Jason. BIG C is trying to help the situation for people like you who are simply out for themselves, and people like you are what makes it hard for us to stay positive and keep up the good fight. Balzac is far from up and running, other than a very small number of head being killed at Innisfail and processed at Balzac. Other that that the large majority of packer expansion in this country has been done by Cargil, Tyson, and Xcel.
If you had one clue about BIG C, you would know that Cam Ostercamp, Doug Fraser, Grant Hirshe, Randy Kaiser, and others have invested nothing but time and money trying to create competition in the marketplace with no more hope for personal gain than you will realize. The BIG C concept is something that could happen in 2 or 5 or 10 years, and would still help the producers of this country. Make fun, while the Agriculture Minister of this country, and a whole lot more government and industry leaders take our proposal very seriously.
Who are you Jason. A negative little dweeb who wants attention for your stand for capitalism. I say BS to that. Cargil and Tyson are doing what they do because they have drones like yourself sucked in to believing everything is fine. IT is not fine. They are playing the game, but the game needs to be fixed. We are operating in a dysfuntional market where these multinational companies are within the law. They are certainly taking advantage, and depending on unwilling folks like yourself to fend for themselves.
Take a look around Jason, even those good old boys who talked of the naivety of BIG C a year ago are seeing the merits of our opinions. Charely Gracey is a close friend of Cam, and I have spoken with him numerous times about the state of affairs in this country.
Crawl back in your hole when it comes to doing something positive Jason, and then come and call me a blamer, or a whiner some more.
Your knowledge would be an asset if you had an iota of respect for any other Rancher in Canada except for yourself.
Ya I'm p%^&d. And I also just wasted my time, I'm sure.
You just showed your true colors again Randy. I wish you success in getting a slaughter house off the drawing board, but as long as you keep asking for a check off or subsidy, your plan isn't sound. Any venture will have to stand on its own merits to survive.
Your blind hatred of anyone that doesn't spout the packer hatred is as bad as the R-cult followers.
I know of plants funded by smart business people so it isn't that they can't work or can't get funding. I just know smart investors want a solid plan as well as something that is good for ranchers.
What happens when the border opens and competition returns to a higher level? Sub par business plans will crash and burn.
I know Grant quite well, and for you to say he wants nothing in return for his investment is bogus. Grant is a good business man but does nothing for no return. He has been promoting his beef store and his purebred operation through the media from day one of this fiasco.
Ask Annette about sitting at the side of the number 2 slugging hamburger from those cull bulls he took on trade to move new bulls at his sales.
My question for you is why does the business plan have to be you 4 running it? Why not join forces with the Pincher Creek group, the fellow in Lethbridge wanting to promote his plan for a plant there, future beef from Edmonton?
My take is each group started has those who want to be the major player. They really don't want to support a new plant unless they can make the big money.
One of the stupidest comments I heard lately was from one of these groups that said as long as the beef was in a box it would be easy to sell. That man obviously had never tried to sell beef.
Grant has said openly selling beef isn't easy. I know it isn't. Anyone who has sold beef knows some customers will be loyal but many will flip as soon as the next cause or expense comes along. They feel they have supported the ranchers now need to support the buffalo guys or whatever.
What have I done to help other ranchers? I have sold bulls at a reasonable price, cheaper than most of the sales. I have traded feed for bulls to help guys out. I have carried some for payment and worked with buyers who have helped them sell calves to afford what they needed to buy. I have worked with the guys too broke to invest $5000 in a plant that may or may not ever get built.
I am different than many ranchers because no matter how bad things are I always count my blessings. I don't care who expands slaughter capacity as long as it gets done. If I had the ability to build capacity I would, but I don't begrudge those that have that ability and will be rewarded according to their skill.
The simple fact that investors and plants have not jumped out of the woodwork proves the obscene profits you claim to be there are not there. Yes Cargill and Tyson are making money, but at least they are re-investing it.
How long before Bouvry and Nielsons are the big bad boogeymen? If they are already then why won't the BIG C group be evil as soon as they pass a certian capacity? Is Corr Van Raay evil because of his size? How about farmers like Henniger Farms? What about Sproule Feedlot? All these outfits make it impossible for smaller outfits to expand in their respective areas. Land has been priced past its economic value. Why don't we hear an uproar about them?
Packers are an easy target right now, but would you rather Cargill and Tyson pull out of Canada right now? I sure wouldn't.
Maple Leaf Angus
Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Very interesting, Sandhusker. You just proved the point for me. Venue means more than evidence. Jurors and judges are not impartial, are they Sandhusker.
rkaiser
Well-known member
Your post was expected Jason, as well as your label once again. Grab a few words from my posts and call me a packer blamer, or open your mind and see the potential for the beef industry in this country if we were to have competition. One of the merits of a levy plan to payback a government bridge financed loan would also be one of the advantages and opportunties for a new plant to survive the future with the power and money Cargil and Tyson will yeild. Obviously convincing you of that is futile. You know business Jason. Whatever?
Funny thing is you, and others like you j :roll: udge BIG C without knowing or reading anything about the concept. The four of us, as you say, would have little or nothing to do with the operation of the plant. I want nothing to do with another operation like that. My vertically integrated market is doing just fine, and yes I am a capitalist enjoying the retail market at the moment.
Somehow, someone like yourself sees anyone who challenges the current situation as a blamer, or a whiner. Judge Grant as you like, I will not debate you on his personal intentions, but you my friend are certainly a step lower than him, even if he has a bit of a personal agenda. Every challenge we step up to lends itself to the self serving temptation as well as blind critism from guys like you who have nothing in mind but greed and ego.
My biggest challenge has been to take the "Blamer", or "whiner" or "self interest" labels, and I do apologize for blasting away yesterday. It seems fine for you and others to use those words in such a righteous way, while any words against your attitude are seen as wrong.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
MLA, "Very interesting, Sandhusker. You just proved the point for me. Venue means more than evidence. Jurors and judges are not impartial, are they Sandhusker."
You're getting a little carried away now, MLA. Of course venue and juror selection is important. Both will have an effect on the trial and how strategies are set. I don't think it is correct to say they are more important than evidence. Attorneys don't take juror selection lightly as they are looking for folks who with be both IMPARTIAL and yet sympathetic to their case. A judge, being human, will have certain predispostions, but it is their job to be impartial.
I know what you're getting at, but considering the latest exhibition of competence by the USDA, is it hard to imagine someone could expose another round of bumbling by them?
You're getting a little carried away now, MLA. Of course venue and juror selection is important. Both will have an effect on the trial and how strategies are set. I don't think it is correct to say they are more important than evidence. Attorneys don't take juror selection lightly as they are looking for folks who with be both IMPARTIAL and yet sympathetic to their case. A judge, being human, will have certain predispostions, but it is their job to be impartial.
I know what you're getting at, but considering the latest exhibition of competence by the USDA, is it hard to imagine someone could expose another round of bumbling by them?
Maple Leaf Angus
Well-known member
Looky here, Sandhusker, I gotta be right because John Grisham said it in one of his novels! :wink: :lol: :lol:
Sandhusker
Well-known member
Maple Leaf Angus said:
OK, I'll stand back - can't argue with Grisham. :lol:
Border rancher
Well-known member
Although I said earlier that I think maybe packer (Cargill and Tyson) profits have risen sharply, that doesn't mean I am angry with them. There are here to make money. They would not be in Alberta if they could not make money! And right now they are the BEST WE HAVE. Although some producers are doing it, my husband and myself have no interest in butchering our own beef and selling it out of the back of a truck! Our operation needs feeders and packers to make it work.
It just gets very frustrating always being on the bottom of the beef ladder and not being able to demand any price rises from anyone. The cow-calf rancher has to pay what is asked for every input he needs and then go on bended knee to the auction or feedlot and hope someone puts enough in that hand so you can carry on for another year!
It just gets very frustrating always being on the bottom of the beef ladder and not being able to demand any price rises from anyone. The cow-calf rancher has to pay what is asked for every input he needs and then go on bended knee to the auction or feedlot and hope someone puts enough in that hand so you can carry on for another year!
Mike
Well-known member
Maple Leaf Angus said:
I dunno MLA? Sometimes you can't trust those "southern boys".
Maple Leaf Angus
Well-known member
Mike said:
Whoa Mike, I got friends in Mississississippi (sp? :wink
that I will staunchly defend against that reckless charge!