badaxemoo said:
burnt said:
badaxemoo said:
I certainly wouldn't want any daughter of mine dating a Christian.
I mean, look what those wackos do, based on their religious beliefs:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5146662.stm
They aren't "friendly" either.
THATS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW INTELLIGENT YOU THREE SOUND ON THE TOPIC OF ISLAM.
badaxe, you could rightly accuse me of not being knowledgeable about Islam, so then I can only rely on what the Koran says about the prescribed treatment of those who fall outside its prescriptions. The article provides this much information.
There IS, however, a difference between doing what the Bible says and merely USING what it says to justify your actions, as appears was the case in the article to which you provided the link.
Nowhere in the teachings of Jesus will you find justification for actions that harm one's fellow man.
According to the article I referenced, the Koran, it seems, gives clear direction on "beheadings" as an appropriate and necessary solution to those who fall afoul of its rules.
You don't have to rely upon the Koran, a book which you and I probably have very little grasp of, to try to understand Islam.
You can look at the behavior of billions of Muslims, on every inhabited continent, and see that the majority of them would neither conduct or condone this type of violence. You are talking about one out of every five or six people on the planet.
Look, I'm not a proponent of Islam, nor of Christianity. I think it is a religion that is due for reformation, particularly in its treatment of women. But that is something that could easily have been said about Christianity not too long ago (and in some contemporary examples would be true even now).
You might not find much violence, bizarre tribal laws, and archaic ritual in the New Testament, but you can certainly find numerous examples that are just as horrifying as anything Islam has cooked up in the Old Testament.
Now I know that someone is going to jump on here and say that Jesus reformed all of that. I'm just not buying it. There are echoes of Old Testament morality and tribal law displayed on this forum on a daily basis despite that feeble argument. The New Testament would be wholly without context if it weren't for the Old.
Google "beheadings" and "Koran". You will quickly see that there is a lot of argument amongst Islamic scholars about what the Koran says about this topic, just as some sects of the modern Christian church are struggling with what the Bible says about homosexuality.
I'm tired of the actions of a few being held up examples of what is supposedly in the hearts and minds of many.
badaxe, while I, for one, greatly enjoy this type of discussion, let me be be the first to admit that I sure don't have answers for many of the questions you raise. Good thing, too, because if I did, I'd prolly want to go off and start my own theology school and turn into a Jimmy Swaggart(sp) or Oral Roberts or someone "famous" like that!! :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
But I would like to very humbly offer a few of my own limited understandings of some of what makes "pure" Christianity attractive to me and what sets it apart from other religions. And most certainly, I cannot speak to what a "pure" translation of the Koran would look like; I can only go by what I see in the world around me. And I stand open to be corrected by any Christian or otherwise who sees where I am wrong in my thinking.
1) You will find NO incitations to violence of ANY kind in the New Testament teachings. That is where we are living today.
As for the Old Testament, if we look at some examples of God- instructed warfare and "genocide", we could certainly reach the conclusion that God is a pretty nasty guy who loves brutality and bloodshed. After all, there are numerous examples of him clearly ordering the Jews to kill with the sword all the men, women, children and babies as well as all the beasts of certain tribes of people.
However, a study of the history of those condemned to be eradicated will show that, without exception, they were a people who were totally morally depraved. Their normal, cultural activities involved things like child sacrifice and gross immorality. And for this, God called them into judgment because it was a lesser loss and cruelty than if their culture was allowed to continue.
2) Jesus did not come to reform all that. He said, "I did not come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill (it)." So, are we to go about killing people today because they do wrongly? Not according to a fuller understanding of the work of Jesus Christ.
In "fulfilling the law", as he said, Jesus made it possible for his disciples to do (through acceptance of his work on the cross and a subsequent relationship with him) what the law demands of all people. God never intended his creation to be at war with itself. All the trouble started when Adam and Eve thought they could do things their way rather than follow God's instructions.
Genesis shows how things started and the rest of the Old Testament shows how humans have constantly managed to get it wrong ever since!! While God's actions through the Jews were often not pretty, they were a necessary consequence of humanity's corrupted behavior. And all too frequently, because they also fell into the harmful lifestyles of their neighbours, the Jewish nation required correction at the hands of those around them.
The New Testament is "Part Two" of God's working with people. I believe that He no longer works through a nation or a specific church, but wants to bring change into the world by positively affecting one life at a time. That is the only way that real "change" can happen. (Sorry, I just had to throw that in :wink: )
Does Hinduism, Islam or any other religion provide for the human failure? No, they don't and they cannot. Unless, of course, you are satisfied with having a few more chances at finding the proper "karma" . . . .
As for the actions of a few - well, you make a good point there. Christianity could deservedly be written off as just another " . . .opiate of the people (Marx)" if we were to define it by the actions of nominal Christianity.
But is nominal Christianity truly reflective of the teachings of Christ? A look at Matthew 5-7 would show the contrary.
I believe that anyone who has a relationship with the risen, living Jesus Christ will be a person who lives at peace with the world around them. The disciple of Christ will treat every living person as someone who God created and cherishes, regardless of race, gender or social standing. Furthermore, the power of Christ also will make each of his followers into someone who bears his noble character in their lives and be completely and freely the person they were created to be!! And this, I confess, is something that I frequently fail to do.
Can the same be said of the Muslims, if they follow the laws of Islam? I think not. For example, women are relegated to a lesser value and role in society.
Sorry that this got so long but I am obviously not very succinct. And worse than that, you probably knew all this stuff without me telling you . . . .
why did I even start?