• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

BSE caused by oxidative stress and metal imbalance

RoperAB

Well-known member
Econ the problem with COOL is the added retail cost for consumers which can only hurt the beef industry as a whole and will not put more money in producers pockets.
About trade
When rcalf makes arguements against trade with Canada then how does it convince countries like Japan to allow the US to export into their market.
About BSE
Genetics is also a factor. If you fead a hundred calves milk replacer with blood meal in it not all the calves would get BSE. Maybe genetic screening is the future just like expanding the beef market should be the future of beef producers.
We need more people on the Atkins diet :wink:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Rod, "So why can't it be both? Sporadic starts by environmental conditions and/or injections, but transmitted and amplified by feeding ruminant remains?"

I think that's the deal.
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Rod, "So why can't it be both? Sporadic starts by environmental conditions and/or injections, but transmitted and amplified by feeding ruminant remains?"

I think that's the deal.

Sandhusker! We actually agree on something! :lol: :lol:
 

Mike

Well-known member
Reader:Cooking does not destroy prions

I have read that it takes 700 degrees f. to destroy them. Sounds kind of shady to me that a living organism can withstand such temps.

Or is it a living organism? Or just a cluster of molecules?

If it is.......... how does it replicate? Heck, the more I study the more I'm confused. :???: :???:
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
RoperAB said:
On 770AM about three years ago on the David Rutherford show they had some kind of an expert from the UK that was basically saying the same thing about how BSE is going to occur naturally in a certain percentage of catle<really small percent>
They also claimed there was nothing new about BSE only that years ago people did not know what it was<called it the wobbles>
They also kept compareing it to cronic wasteing disease that wildlife get.
They also figgured that feeding animals back animal by products contributed greatly to BSE.
They also said if the meat was prepared properly it was still safe to eat.
I do know that the American Fish and Game who culls wildlife because of cronic wasteing says that the hunters can eat the meat of the culled deer and that as long as the meat is prepared properly its safe to eat.
Honestly I would not knowingly eat or feed to anybody a BSE animal or a deer with cronic wasteing disease. But my family has continued to eat beef<mostly hamburger>.
I think the risk is so low in North American of anybody getting sick from beef that I cant believe its such a big issue.
And yes I think its mostly political.

Cooking does not destroy prions. I heard the same thing from Dr. Sanjay Gupta on CNN. It's just plain incorrect. The temperatures have to be very high to destroy prions. So you are right to think that knowingly eating or feeding someone a deer with CWD or a cow with BSE is nuts.

I never said that, but let me explain better. Its the way that the animal is butchered. Example if im butchering a deer I debone the meat around the backbone so I dont cut through the spinal cord. When I cut the horns of the deer I use a separate saw for that purpose or in the field I do that last so I dont contaminate the meat with brain tissue.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
RoperAB said:
Sandhusker said:
Rod, "So why can't it be both? Sporadic starts by environmental conditions and/or injections, but transmitted and amplified by feeding ruminant remains?"

I think that's the deal.

Sandhusker! We actually agree on something! :lol: :lol:

Cool, the first frosty is on me!
 

Kathy

Well-known member
There is plenty of evidence which shows that iatrogenic transmission of "the uncharacterized prion agent" has occurred.

The UK banned the use of naturally-derived animal growth hormones (from pituitary glands) prior to forced implementation scheduled for 1989, this gave the UK a head start on preventing further transmission of BSE via injection of the hormones (iatrogenic transmission). [Vaccines for rabies (at least in some countries) stopped using cow brain tissue.]

Feed bans did not only stop the feeding of animal proteins, they also stopped the bio-accumulation cycle of metals (manganese in chicken manure); and chemicals, like Phosmet, an organophosphate, used on most UK dairy cattle to treat them for warbles. It had an extremely ridiculous withdrawal period of only hours (8 hrs). This allowed dairy men to continue selling their milk, with no loss of income.

The animal's body becomes a toxic medium which destroys the warble grub inside it. Why would anyone want to drink milk from cattle treated that same day with an organophosphate (first developed as a nerve agent for warfare). It is far more likely that milk was contaminated with a copper-chelating agent or xenobiotic molecule which acted similarly in humans. Consume enough of this milk and your own body would accumulate the toxic chemical perhaps resulting in your own copper deficiency.


The importance of knowing what is the exact transmissible agent is huge. And pretending that it is an agent found only in mammalian proteins, will not stop the cycle. Just as using sheep with genetics that make them less susceptible to scrapie, has not solved the scrapie problem in Europe. Nor have feed bans stopped the occurrence of BSE. Banning the feeding of animal proteins to animals (not acustomed to eating meat) is absolutely fine with me. This will help break the cycle of bio-accumulation, in the food chain, of many dangerous chemicals.

Much of the metal imbalances which "crop up" are man-made. By identifying the problems associated with these man-made environments - something can then be done to clean things up, change practices, or supplement diets to PREVENT the disease.

Unfortunately, all that is considered is the selfish worries of those who may be (knowingly) involved in causing the contamination/imbalance and their fears of being sued and put out of business.

Everyone should be taking measures to protect our environment. We all breath the same air and we share food around the world.

Mike wrote:
I have read that it takes 700 degrees f. to destroy them. Sounds kind of shady to me that a living organism can withstand such temps.

Or is it a living organism? Or just a cluster of molecules?

If it is.......... how does it replicate? Heck, the more I study the more I'm confused

Even Stanley Prusiner is now stating, that the conversion of the protein to a malformed configuration is caused by "multivalent electrostatic" reactions {note: this is not "infection"}. This directly relates to the molecules and metals which make up the diseased area of the brain.

I respect anyone who is willing to challenge his/her present views. I constantly review the so-called "infectious" papers and I see that none of them have "characterized" the prion. They have not identified all the molecules/elements which are associated with vacuoles in the brain and associated proteins. They have no idea what they are feeding, drenching or injecting into experimental animals. Just as Dr. McBride states, the control animals should be injected with "healthy animal brain tissue"; and not the usual saline solution, or no injection at all.

There are, thankfully, some researchers who have examined the brains of Alzheimer, CJD and other neurological deceased patients for metals, and their evidence is FACT, not theory. High levels of manganese - low levels of copper (CJD and BSE); presence of uranium, imbalances of zinc and iron. ETC....

This is how flounder (Terry Singletary) debates the science:

i see no metals or ops in the formula of this decline, only tainted feed i.e. infectious transmission, maybe kathy can explain this (followed by three laughing emoticons)

TSS

Flounder is some one who does not wish to see ALL the evidence (or who does not want others to beleive the evidence). He responds by laughing at the evidence which is stacking up in favor of a metal imbalance and oxidative damage.

I have posted time and again evidence which supports aspects of OP's to copper chelation, and I do not have time in my life (ranching and raising two kids) to re-iterate all these arguements over and over again. Especially for a man who laughs at the science which persistent and intelligent doctors (like David R. Brown of Bath University, UK) bring forward. Mark Purdey's webpages are full of articles which outline some of his environmental findings associated with clusters of TSEs. For example, The first cases of CWD were in deer raised in fenced off areas on military bases (farmed deer - they are called). These areas were contaminated with plutonium and chemical warfare agents.

www.markpurdey.com and www.purdeyenvironment.com

14 peer-reviewed papers (search Entrez PubMed)

Good starting point: "Educating Rita"

This is a message board for ranchers. I am a rancher. I welcome debate, even with non-ranchers, but I will not respond favourably to ridicule and debate based on LIES (Gabrial Horne Report contains lies) or superficial research. If animals have developed disease after eating brain tissue, then perhaps it would be intelligent to analyze that brain tissue for toxins and metals.

Some researchers are calling prion diseases and neurological disorders - "auto-immune response" diseases. I am beginning to think that they are correct, in some ways. They appear to be diseases caused by the exascerbation/failure of our own body's defence mechanisms. In the case of BSE, we may be blaming the messenger/defender. Meanwhile, the real toxin(s) continue to go about, "business" as usual.

Be confused! The infectious theory is not supported by "infectious" science. It is supported by superficial toxicology, which is renamed "infectious research" because of the absolute fear of insinuating that toxins might be in our food (and I'm not talking about just beef).

These toxins get into our food, via some of the very same mechanisms they get directly from the air/water into us. Certainly, we are all guinea pigs. Quit shooting the messanger (prion protein); and start experiments on cattle which would demonstrate that BSE and CWD are caused via metal homeostasis perturbances.
 

Latest posts

Top