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Bse mistake in Canada?

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Mike

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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050411/MADCOW11/TPNational/Canada


Interesting, thought Canada found all those imported cattle?
 

SASH

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With all these lawsuits, it feels like we're getting more and more like Americans all the time. :cry:
 

don

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reader (the second): while Canadian producers are suing their own government?

how likely do you think it is that there would be class action suits in the states if bse positives start turning up? we're generally regarded to not be as litigious as south of the line. i think you'd have producers and consumers looking for an angle to get somebody else's money. r-calf might be at the head of the line serving notice.
 

SASH

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Totally different issues on all three suits from what I can see. There is no doubt that we found three cases of BSE. That came from poor inspection protocol by the CDN government back in the 80's. The US government is being sued under NAFTA for violating the Free Trade agreement and R-CALF is being sued for slander/libel (that's lying for all you R-CALF folks that don't understand big words).
 

Tam

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reader (the Second) said:
I know, this was all over the newspapers this morning in Google and I thought -- how can Miss Tam be blaming R-CALF while Canadian producers are suing their own government? And if their government is at fault and was remiss in a why that endangered Canada and North America, then gee whiz, maybe R-CALF isn't such a bad guy...

Miss Reader where did I blame R-CALF for Canada finding BSE in our herd? All I have ever blamed R-CALF for is the fear mongering and the lieing they do to un justly keep the border closed. Lieing as in Canadian beef is all tainted and is a genuine risk of death to US consumers then when called to Court of appeals saying we never argued that there was a high risk to US consumers if trade was resumed in Canadian cattle and beef. Lieing like in saying the US has the highest standards to protected the US consumer but Canada's higher standards failed and you can't trust any of their beef. Lieing as in the Harvard risk accessments, that you are embrassed about, says the US beef industry is doing everything they can do to protect the US consumer but the Harvard risk accessment that says Canada is doing as good if not better is a lie and can't be trust. Lieing as in saying the US annualy tests 150,000 more head of cattle for BSE over Canada when in fact the US is has only tested 233,615 head in the 12 years of testing and they are some 45,000 behind if you figure in the size of our herds. I have never blamed R-CALF for BSE in Canada.
 

rancher

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Tam, what do you have to say on all the missing UK cattle after you told us they were all found? You put us down for not finding the cattle and being way ahead of us. Maybe R-calf has a legit worry on the border opening for health of our cattle. Seems like both sides are making mistakes. I say fix ours before we let in other mistakes to deal with.
 

rkaiser

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:) I'm amazed at how rancher and Oltimehead have fallen back to the position of safety first before the border opens. What a joke. Your position has never changed; only the way you talk about it.

Why do you want the border closed. To satisfy your opinion that a closed border is helping your bottom line. Even this point is debatable, but your shift to safety is simply weaseling.

Grab a backbone you two, and say it like it is. It is all about money.
 

SASH

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rkaiser said:
:) I'm amazed at how rancher and Oltimehead have fallen back to the position of safety first before the border opens. What a joke. Your position has never changed; only the way you talk about it.

Why do you want the border closed. To satisfy your opinion that a closed border is helping your bottom line. Even this point is debatable, but your shift to safety is simply weaseling.

Grab a backbone you two, and say it like it is. It is all about money.

Yeah, even Pat Goggins was honest enough to say it wasn't about safety, it was about trying to prop up US prices. I may disagree with the man but at least he's telling the truth which seems to be a rare thing among the R-CALF bunch.
 

Murgen

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Seems like both sides are making mistakes. I say fix ours before we let in other mistakes to deal with.

What mistakes are being made in the US? Might they be the same ones Canada made years ago?

That's maybe what Tam is talking about when she says R-calf might not be looking too far into the future! What if?

When were the mistakes made, nobody knows?, so maybe it's a better policy to be proactive with statements made.
 

rancher

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I say be on the safe side and getting BSE in our herds, I don't care to eat BSE meat from USA or from Canada or have any of my kids eat it. And YES I ENJOY THE PRICE MY CALVES ARE BRINGING, too bad everything else in expense had to rise to eat up what profit we were getting. Why wouldn't I want the prices the USA MARKET had got for the USA PRODUCER! You would be saying the same thing if the sides were reversed. So should I work to get ride of the DUI law just in case down the road I get drunk and drive? Makes no sense to me.
 

Tam

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rancher said:
Tam, what do you have to say on all the missing UK cattle after you told us they were all found? You put us down for not finding the cattle and being way ahead of us. Maybe R-calf has a legit worry on the border opening for health of our cattle. Seems like both sides are making mistakes. I say fix ours before we let in other mistakes to deal with.

Rancher did I ever say that none of the UK cattle were traced to the Feed system? No. What I said was we know now that at least one of UK cows made it past the testing and into the feed system and Canada traced out the REMAINING UK CATTLE and disposed of them in 1993. You keep saying that the US found all UK cattle too but I posted where the USDA said there were 32 still un-accounted for I asked you and Mike, I think it was, if any of the UK cattle that were traced in the US traced back to the US feed system and neither of you answered me. I never said that one or even possibly two UK cattle didn't make it into the system undetected. But that doesn't mean that the CFIA didn't know that they had been disposed of. Which means they could have accounted for all the UK cattle. As far as this law suit I'm only going on what the CFIA has told us over and over and I don't know where these lawyers got their information.
 

rancher

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You keep saying that the US found all UK cattle too


I don't remember saying this :???:
 
A

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This kind of makes the guy thats making the money off Free Market Beefs supposed lawsuit against R-CALF look like a joke-- Canadians are suing the government and feed producers because they know their government and feedlots screwed up and their beef is unsafe :roll: Isn't that what R-CALF has been saying :???: In order to prove this case you have to prove that their is a BSE problem in Canada perpetuated by the government and the feed producers.....

No wonder our astute US Senators voted to keep the border closed because of all the unanswered questions- I hope this spurs the congressmen to do the same....

Until we know what the everyday changing situation is in Canada we should not lower our border guidelines............
 

Tam

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Silver said:
http://www.nlid.org/English/articles/bse.htm

depends on what story you read I guess. It just depends on if you believe everything you read.

This sounds more like the story that we have been hearing all along.
But what I would like to know about the other story is who are the farmers behind this law suit? These farmers and lawyers seem to want to blame the CFIA for supposedly not keeping an eye on 80 head of cattle but the producers that owned them must have known that they were being monitored. Why did they ship these cattle to slaughter or rendering without telling the CFIA that they were disposing of them? If Ridley Corp can be sued for something they should have known may cause a problem a decade later then every rancher in the world other than those in the UK where BSE was first found are open to law suits as we should have known feeding this stuff to our cattle could cause a problem down the road. Do we really want that can of worms opened up?
 
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Tam said:
Silver said:
http://www.nlid.org/English/articles/bse.htm

depends on what story you read I guess. It just depends on if you believe everything you read.

This sounds more like the story that we have been hearing all along.
But what I would like to know about the other story is who are the farmers behind this law suit? These farmers and lawyers seem to want to blame the CFIA for supposedly not keeping an eye on 80 head of cattle but the producers that owned them must have known that they were being monitored. Why did they ship these cattle to slaughter or rendering without telling the CFIA that they were disposing of them? If Ridley Corp can be sued for something they should have known may cause a problem a decade later then every rancher in the world other than those in the UK where BSE was first found are open to law suits as we should have known feeding this stuff to our cattle could cause a problem down the road. Do we really want that can of worms opened up?

Kind of sounds the same as a bunch of Canadians that are supposedly now suing a US group (R-CALF) and American ranchers for utilizing their right to free speach and the opinions they have on the safety of Canadian beef and the their opinions and feelings toward opening the border....Sounds like some Canadians understand that the Canadians problem did not originate with R-CALF :? Do we really want that can of worms opened up?-- I think much of it will come out in the July trial :wink:
 

Tam

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Does freedom of speech mean you can repeatedly lie about something and get away with it Oldtimer? In most countries if you lie to the point of damaging the reputation of someone or something that is a case of SLANDER punishable by law.
 
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Tam said:
Does freedom of speech mean you can repeatedly lie about something and get away with it Oldtimer? In most countries if you lie to the point of damaging the reputation of someone or something that is a case of SLANDER punishable by law.

Tam- Are you going to sue this Canadian group and the 100,000 they represent :???: Much of what they contend in the lawsuit is exactly what R-CALF and many US producers have been saying for months...What you have been saying is a lie, is now what these Canadian attorneys from several Provinces are now saying has happened... Are they libel/slandering you?

Just like Judge Cebull and the US Senators said- we need to set back and look at ALL the evidence before we make any hasty decisions on relaxing rules on imports.....If Canadians are bringing forth all this info now at this time, how much more do we not know? Why did NCBA's " investigative team of experts" miss all this in their 3 day barstool investigation of the entire Canadian feedban?
 

Kathy

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I am very amused by this new law suit. I wouldn't join it for the world. The ranchers involved all accept that BSE is/was caused by the poor english cows imported into Canada. PROVE IT!

I am quite certain the terms "could be", "might be", "thought to be" and "believed to be" will rear their heads again. These terms have been dropped by mainstream media, but not by the official's like CFIA.

The science has not proven scrapie caused BSE. The science has not proven BSE caused vCJD, and the science has not proven that consumption of "infected" feed causes BSE.

All these are theories supported by homogenate studies which mean nothing, as the procedures involved are extra-ordinary and do not reflect real-life situations in the feeding of cattle.

This may be the hard way of learning an important lesson. I can't wait to see the two sides present their arguements.
 

don

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ot the question to you then is if the lawsuit doesn't succeed do r-calf's allegations go out the window???
 

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