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BSE Test

William Kanitz

Well-known member
If rodents challenged
intracerebrally with BSE or vCJD agents mirror the pathophysiology
of muscle targeting in ovine BSE and human
vCJD to a similar extent, this would point to muscles as
reservoirs for infectivity in these diseases. Thus, our findings
emphasize the need for further assessment of the risks for
public health that may result from prions in skeletal muscle


I read this and its quite thought provking.
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
A large pathogenesis study of BSE-infected cattle in the UK
failed to detect infectivity in muscle tissue at any time during
the course of the disease (European Commission, 2002).
However, at each time point, only approximately 0.5 g
muscle was bioassayed, representing a minute sample of the
>500 kg muscle from the slaughtered cattle, so that any lack
of homogeneity in the distribution of infectivity could easily
have led to a negative result. Moreover, a statistical analysis
of the sampling shows that, even with a homogeneous
distribution, there was only a 50% chance of detecting one
infectious dose. This caveat to pronouncing BSE muscle to
be non-infectious was fully appreciated by the authors of
the study, but may not have been widely understood by its
interpreters.
It must be borne in mind that the data of this study have
been obtained fromintracerebrally infected rodents, whereas
natural transmission of scrapie and BSE probably occurs via
the oral route. However, the relevance of the reported
findings is corroborated by the detection of PrPTSE in
muscles of sheep and hamsters after both oral and intracerebral
infection with scrapie (Andre´oletti et al., 2004;
Table 2. Reports on the detection of TSE infectivity or PrPTSE in muscles
sCJD, Sporadic Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease; ND, not done.
Infected species Infectivity bioassay
(indicator animals)


And this proves what?
 

Mike

Well-known member
And this proves what?

Do you really not understand it Big Muddy? :shock:

Hint: Bioassay was the very first BSE test. They would inject PrPsc infected material into a mouse and wait for him to die.

Can you imagine how inaccurate this was before they started using transgenic (a mouse with cattle genes) mice?

All this is saying that the PrPsc in muscle detection procedure was flawed.
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Mike said:
And this proves what?

Do you really not understand it Big Muddy? :shock:

Hint: Bioassay was the very first BSE test. They would inject PrPsc infected material into a mouse and wait for him to die.

Can you imagine how inaccurate this was before they started using transgenic (a mouse with cattle genes) mice?

All this is saying that the PrPsc in muscle detection procedure was flawed.


So your telling me that they haven't found BSE in the muscle tissue of naturally occuring BSE affected cows.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
BMR, can you tell me how the disease can get carried via the blood stream to SRM's without going thru muscle tissue? Can you explain to me why the prions would not be in muscle tissue when they concentrate in the nervous system - and you can't take a bite of beef from any part of the animal without eating a part of the nervous system as well?
 

Mike

Well-known member
So your telling me that they haven't found BSE in the muscle tissue of naturally occuring BSE affected cows.

Muscle tissue and lymphoid tissue is basically impossible to segregate.

If PrPsc is known to accumulate in lymphoid tissue and the lymphoid tissue is attached to skeletal muscle what do you think?

It takes quite an accumulation of PrPsc to be detected in any test used today, not to mention the mouse bioassay used in earlier detection trials.

If I had to make an assumption based on what little common sense I have, I would say that PrPsc is in fact found in muscle tissue of any animal harboring these proteins. But only a small amount that is undetectable by tests.

Have you thought about how small these proteins are?

Proteins are usually on 3-10 nanometers (BILLIONTH OF A METER).
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
BMR, can you tell me how the disease can get carried via the blood stream to SRM's without going thru muscle tissue? Can you explain to me why the prions would not be in muscle tissue when they concentrate in the nervous system - and you can't take a bite of beef from any part of the animal without eating a part of the nervous system as well?



No I can't. I am not a BSE scientist and neither are you or most every body else that posts here. All Tim and I have asked for is proof that a cow with naturally occuring BSE has misformed protiens in the meat.
All you guys post is reports of animals with BSE material injected into their brains or fed SRM's loaded with BSE prions. Not one report of finding "misformed" protiens in muscle tisse of cattle.

Speculate with the cattle industry all you want but expect us to defend it.

Sandhusker since you are such an ethical money lender would you loan money to a Nebraska feedlot that is feeding Canadian cattle?
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
Sandhusker said:
BMR, can you tell me how the disease can get carried via the blood stream to SRM's without going thru muscle tissue? Can you explain to me why the prions would not be in muscle tissue when they concentrate in the nervous system - and you can't take a bite of beef from any part of the animal without eating a part of the nervous system as well?



No I can't. I am not a BSE scientist and neither are you or most every body else that posts here. All Tim and I have asked for is proof that a cow with naturally occuring BSE has misformed protiens in the meat.
All you guys post is reports of animals with BSE material injected into their brains or fed SRM's loaded with BSE prions. Not one report of finding "misformed" protiens in muscle tisse of cattle.

Speculate with the cattle industry all you want but expect us to defend it.

Sandhusker since you are such an ethical money lender would you loan money to a Nebraska feedlot that is feeding Canadian cattle?

Nerves are in every ounce of muscle tissue. If you accept that prions are in nerves, you have to accept prions are in the muscle, too. What exactly is it that you need proof on - that prions are in nerve tissue or that nerves are in muscle?

Yes, I would lend to a local feeder buying Canadian cattle. I wouldn't like it, but I'm not the CEO.
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Sandhusker said:
BMR, can you tell me how the disease can get carried via the blood stream to SRM's without going thru muscle tissue? Can you explain to me why the prions would not be in muscle tissue when they concentrate in the nervous system - and you can't take a bite of beef from any part of the animal without eating a part of the nervous system as well?



No I can't. I am not a BSE scientist and neither are you or most every body else that posts here. All Tim and I have asked for is proof that a cow with naturally occuring BSE has misformed protiens in the meat.
All you guys post is reports of animals with BSE material injected into their brains or fed SRM's loaded with BSE prions. Not one report of finding "misformed" protiens in muscle tisse of cattle.

Speculate with the cattle industry all you want but expect us to defend it.

Sandhusker since you are such an ethical money lender would you loan money to a Nebraska feedlot that is feeding Canadian cattle?

Nerves are in every ounce of muscle tissue. If you accept that prions are in nerves, you have to accept prions are in the muscle, too. What exactly is it that you need proof on - that prions are in nerve tissue or that nerves are in muscle?

Yes, I would lend to a local feeder buying Canadian cattle. I wouldn't like it, but I'm not the CEO.


Sandhusker is that because they are Canadian or because they might have BSE?
 

TimH

Well-known member
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

This is getting boring but I will re-post it for those that are obviously a little slow on the uptake...... quoted from a study that bse-tester(aka wRONg Arnold) posted in this very thread.......

".......no infectivity or PrPSc has been detected so far in skeletal muscles of cattle with BSE."

".......no infectivity or PrPSc has been detected so far in skeletal muscles of cattle with BSE."

".......no infectivity or PrPSc has been detected so far in skeletal muscles of cattle with BSE."

These muscles obviously contained some nerve tissue.....and still....".......no infectivity or PrPSc has been detected so far in skeletal muscles of cattle with BSE."

Un-be-friggin-lievable!!!!!! I'm done with this. :D :D :D :D
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
BMR, "Sandhusker is that because they are Canadian or because they might have BSE?"

If they are Canadian, they might have BSE.

The answer to your questing is mainly because I'm in the middle of cow/calf country. Every business in this county makes it or breaks it on calf prices. If they are buying Canadian feeders (or Mexican, or Texan, or whatever), they're not doing business locally and the whole area suffers because of it. My dad runs the local gas station. Most of his business is to ranchers. Let him tell you how local business is affected by calf prices.
 

Mike

Well-known member
TimH said:
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

This is getting boring but I will re-post it for those that are obviously a little slow on the uptake...... quoted from a study that bse-tester(aka wRONg Arnold) posted in this very thread.......

".......no infectivity or PrPSc has been detected so far in skeletal muscles of cattle with BSE."


These muscles obviously contained some nerve tissue.....and still....

Un-be-friggin-lievable!!!!!! I'm done with this. :D :D :D :D

Dear Timmy,

Because your quote above contains the words "SO FAR", it might tend to lead one to believe that the author of the quote thinks that testing technology is not advanced to the point of detecting Prpsc in minute quantities, as would be the case in muscle tissue, but is not out of the realm of possibility.

In other words, at a certain point in the timeline of BSE research, your statement might and would be 100% correct. But until the statement is shown to be accurate in 2006, it might be suspect and arguable.

Also, your statement above seemed to leave out one particularly fascinating point. Has PrPsc been (at the date of it's writing) undetectable by EVERY BSE researcher in the world, or by just the one making the statement?

PrPsc has been found in muscle tissue. That is a fact. Until you can scientifically specify why it would be found in mice, humans, etc. and not in cattle, we will question the validity of SRM removal as the Holy Grail of safety.

There are many unanswered questions about the Prion diseases to date.

We would like to thank you for choosing one line from a research article contributed by someone else to help us base our opinions.

Next time, you might try reading a complete sentence or maybe even a paragraph.

Kindest Regards



[/b]
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Mike said:
TimH said:
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

This is getting boring but I will re-post it for those that are obviously a little slow on the uptake...... quoted from a study that bse-tester(aka wRONg Arnold) posted in this very thread.......

".......no infectivity or PrPSc has been detected so far in skeletal muscles of cattle with BSE."


These muscles obviously contained some nerve tissue.....and still....

Un-be-friggin-lievable!!!!!! I'm done with this. :D :D :D :D

Dear Timmy,

Because your quote above contains the words "SO FAR", it might tend to lead one to believe that the author of the quote thinks that testing technology is not advanced to the point of detecting Prpsc in minute quantities, as would be the case in muscle tissue, but is not out of the realm of possibility.

In other words, at a certain point in the timeline of BSE research, your statement might and would be 100% correct. But until the statement is shown to be accurate in 2006, it might be suspect and arguable.

Also, your statement above seemed to leave out one particularly fascinating point. Has PrPsc been (at the date of it's writing) undetectable by EVERY BSE researcher in the world, or by just the one making the statement?

PrPsc has been found in muscle tissue. That is a fact. Until you can scientifically specify why it would be found in mice, humans, etc. and not in cattle, we will question the validity of SRM removal as the Holy Grail of safety.

There are many unanswered questions about the Prion diseases to date.

We would like to thank you for choosing one line from a research article contributed by someone else to help us base our opinions.

Next time, you might try reading a complete sentence or maybe even a paragraph.

Kindest Regards



[/b]




Mike wrote"We would like to thank you for choosing one line from a research article contributed by someone else to help us base our opinions.
"

OPINIONS yes that's what you have not proof, Tim and I asked for proof. Beef has been blamed for alot of things in the past but is now endorsed by the Heart foundation.
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
BMR, "Sandhusker is that because they are Canadian or because they might have BSE?"

If they are Canadian, they might have BSE.

The answer to your questing is mainly because I'm in the middle of cow/calf country. Every business in this county makes it or breaks it on calf prices. If they are buying Canadian feeders (or Mexican, or Texan, or whatever), they're not doing business locally and the whole area suffers because of it. My dad runs the local gas station. Most of his business is to ranchers. Let him tell you how local business is affected by calf prices.


So if a rancher like say Soapweed came in and said my cow numbers are down and I can buy a couple of hundred grassers from Big Muddy rancher you would only begrudgingly loan him the money. I thought the US was built on free enterprise and trade. What's to say those cattle wouldn't hit the Japanese market and put more money into your local economy.
I don't need your Dad to tell me how calf prices affect the local economy cause unlike you that is my only income.


OH yea if they are American calves they "might" have BSE as well. Maybe your CEO should get out of the business of loaning money to cattle producers period because of the risk to consumers.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
Sandhusker said:
BMR, "Sandhusker is that because they are Canadian or because they might have BSE?"

If they are Canadian, they might have BSE.

The answer to your questing is mainly because I'm in the middle of cow/calf country. Every business in this county makes it or breaks it on calf prices. If they are buying Canadian feeders (or Mexican, or Texan, or whatever), they're not doing business locally and the whole area suffers because of it. My dad runs the local gas station. Most of his business is to ranchers. Let him tell you how local business is affected by calf prices.


So if a rancher like say Soapweed came in and said my cow numbers are down and I can buy a couple of hundred grassers from Big Muddy rancher you would only begrudgingly loan him the money. I thought the US was built on free enterprise and trade. What's to say those cattle wouldn't hit the Japanese market and put more money into your local economy.
I don't need your Dad to tell me how calf prices affect the local economy cause unlike you that is my only income.


OH yea if they are American calves they "might" have BSE as well. Maybe your CEO should get out of the business of loaning money to cattle producers period because of the risk to consumers.

The Japanese aren't taking our cows, and Soapweed can't buy your grassers. He's also free to bank anywhere he wants to. I suggest you base your hypos on reality.

You think all my income also doesn't depend on cattle prices? Think again.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
You think all my income also doesn't depend on cattle prices? Think again.

I think thats one thing that many never look at- the number of jobs and paychecks that altho not directly an Ag job, are very much influenced by these cattle prices and the income of the farmer/rancher...

That is the reason that during the period of the closed border and the record cattle prices across the board, which was actually giving everyone in the cattle chain a profit, I think I saw some of the most optimism and stimulised encouragement thruout the community that I've seen in 20 years...
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Sandhusker said:
BMR, "Sandhusker is that because they are Canadian or because they might have BSE?"

If they are Canadian, they might have BSE.

The answer to your questing is mainly because I'm in the middle of cow/calf country. Every business in this county makes it or breaks it on calf prices. If they are buying Canadian feeders (or Mexican, or Texan, or whatever), they're not doing business locally and the whole area suffers because of it. My dad runs the local gas station. Most of his business is to ranchers. Let him tell you how local business is affected by calf prices.


So if a rancher like say Soapweed came in and said my cow numbers are down and I can buy a couple of hundred grassers from Big Muddy rancher you would only begrudgingly loan him the money. I thought the US was built on free enterprise and trade. What's to say those cattle wouldn't hit the Japanese market and put more money into your local economy.
I don't need your Dad to tell me how calf prices affect the local economy cause unlike you that is my only income.


OH yea if they are American calves they "might" have BSE as well. Maybe your CEO should get out of the business of loaning money to cattle producers period because of the risk to consumers.

The Japanese aren't taking our cows, and Soapweed can't buy your grassers. He's also free to bank anywhere he wants to. I suggest you base your hypos on reality.

You think all my income also doesn't depend on cattle prices? Think again.

If it wasn't for R-CALF going to court at every turn the rule mught have allowed Soapweed to buy my calves just like he could have before the BSE incident. Japan is taking US beef again. Oh and does your wage rise and fall with the fat cattle prices. Do you get 20% less when they fall from $1.00 to $0.80?
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
BMR,"If it wasn't for R-CALF going to court at every turn the rule mught have allowed Soapweed to buy my calves just like he could have before the BSE incident. Japan is taking US beef again. Oh and does your wage rise and fall with the fat cattle prices. Do you get 20% less when they fall from $1.00 to $0.80?"

You're right, BRM, R-CALF was wrong to take USDA to court. It would of been much wiser to sit on our hands and let them put our entire industry at risk for the benefit of Cargill and Tyson. We should be mindless yes-men.

My wage doesn't rise and fall with calf prices. That doesn't matter. If prices stay too low for too long, I won't have a wage.
 

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