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BSE/TSE/vCJD 'What if' ?????????

mrj

Well-known member
There are so many THEORIES, and so little solid scientific information, at least on this site, regarding cause and effect of BSE/TSE diseases it is little wonder there is such antagonism between those supporting each of the various theories.

So.......what if.......they are simply anomalies or abberations or just plain something that happens, possibly exaggerated in SOME individual animals and humans, with the result of the disease taking over the individuals systems? The more I read about this, the more I suspect something like this well may be the case.

Who are we going to blame if that proves to be true?????

What if there is something connected with the fact that we simply live longer than we used to being relevant to the onset of BSE/TSE/vCJD type illnesses? I believe that back in 1940 when I was born, average expected lifespan was something less than 50 years, and it is now about 80 years.

Just something to think about.

MRJ
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
MRJ said:
There are so many THEORIES, and so little solid scientific information, at least on this site, regarding cause and effect of BSE/TSE diseases it is little wonder there is such antagonism between those supporting each of the various theories.

So.......what if.......they are simply anomalies or abberations or just plain something that happens, possibly exaggerated in SOME individual animals and humans, with the result of the disease taking over the individuals systems? The more I read about this, the more I suspect something like this well may be the case.

Who are we going to blame if that proves to be true?????

What if there is something connected with the fact that we simply live longer than we used to being relevant to the onset of BSE/TSE/vCJD type illnesses? I believe that back in 1940 when I was born, average expected lifespan was something less than 50 years, and it is now about 80 years.

Just something to think about.

MRJ


I have to agree with your many theories and little solid scientific information- but I think that best describes the entire science of BSE...

So MRJ- Are you now doubting USDA/NCBA/AMI's "sound science".... :???:
 

Kathy

Well-known member
MRJ, just keep asking questions.

Take care of yourself and yours. Eat healthy with lots of fresh vegetables and grass fed beef (preferrably).

But remember that the FDA and EPA warn you not to eat to much tuna, because of the mercury accumulated in it.

To bad cattle were turned into carnivores. I agree that something was feed to them that contributed to the disease BSE. It would look pretty stupid if these guys admitted they didn't test the bone meal for toxic metals before they fed it to the cattle.

Don't worry too much! But don't through your hands in the air and say "what can I do about it, I'm just one person". You can promote a healthy environment, healthy lifestyle and healthy food. Community efforts have accomplished alot more than government agendas.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
"What if" it's truly a scourge upon humanity and we are sitting here fiddling with dynamite by basing our decisions on economics of the select?
 

Kathy

Well-known member
Twiddling thumbs and sitting on our butts waiting for someone else to tell us what to do,

apathy

grab a beer and watch some more mindless television.

The choice is up to each individual.

I choose to do my own gathering of research and reading to determine the facts, or lack of facts.

Can BSE really be more scary than the use of depleted uranium weapons in Afganastan, Iraq, Bosnia, etc. ?

What happens if Iran is next?

You think BSE is a big worry, you ain't seen nothing yet!
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Kathy said:
Twiddling thumbs and sitting on our butts waiting for someone else to tell us what to do,

apathy

grab a beer and watch some more mindless television.

The choice is up to each individual.

I choose to do my own gathering of research and reading to determine the facts, or lack of facts.

Can BSE really be more scary than the use of depleted uranium weapons in Afganastan, Iraq, Bosnia, etc. ?

What happens if Iran is next?

You think BSE is a big worry, you ain't seen nothing yet!

I don't expect the USDA to run foreign wars, Kathy, but I do expect them to run the department of agriculure with some semblence of competency.

George Bush can not use the "war on terrorism" to trump his corrupt administration.

I expect him to be able to hire competent people and delegate authority without corruption. He doesn't even have to walk and chew gum at the same time. He can hire other people to chew the gum. The unfortunate thing is that the people he is hiring can not do their jobs.]

The job duties have been so corrupted by the bubble special interest has made in Washington D.C. that Johanns can't chew the gum he is hired to chew.

The oversight committees are non existent because of the concentration of power that Carl Rove employs. Congress is not doing its job and just running from crisis to crisis. Look across the board, pensions, drugs, agriculture, oil policiy........ I could go on and on.

There should be more funding for bse and it should come from a direct tax on Tyson's poultry and beef operations as those divisions are the ones that is profiting from MBM in feed. Instead we get more corporate welfare.
 

mrj

Well-known member
Kathy, I do much of what you suggest, and support groups that make a difference, but am not prone to accuse every possible "environmental polutant" of being the work of 'corporate greed and evil', either.

Econ, please compare the corruption levels (charged and convicted only, please!) of the past 50 years of administrations and bring us the results of your study.

You should also consider the levels of growth of bureaucracy from FDR to GWB, including the amount of control they exert which administrations seem to have little control over. About as close to conspiracies as you will see me come, is belief that there probably is a 'shadow government' from bottom of federal agencies up through the FBI and CIA and that Presidents have TOO LITTLE control over that AND Congress, not too much!

MRJ
 

Econ101

Well-known member
MRJ said:
Kathy, I do much of what you suggest, and support groups that make a difference, but am not prone to accuse every possible "environmental polutant" of being the work of 'corporate greed and evil', either.

Econ, please compare the corruption levels (charged and convicted only, please!) of the past 50 years of administrations and bring us the results of your study.

You should also consider the levels of growth of bureaucracy from FDR to GWB, including the amount of control they exert which administrations seem to have little control over. About as close to conspiracies as you will see me come, is belief that there probably is a 'shadow government' from bottom of federal agencies up through the FBI and CIA and that Presidents have TOO LITTLE control over that AND Congress, not too much!

MRJ

MRJ, I would agree with you on that!!! The "shadow" govt. is the corporate and special interest groups in D.C. within the bureaucracy that the president has not to this point taken on.

Read the book, The Robber Barons, that I suggested before. This is just history repeating itself as it happened around the turn of the century too.

We need a real president, not a Don Quiote. I thought Bush would be it, but it doesn' look like it. He and the republicans snuggled up closer to K street than politics was before.

Clinton sold the white house and Bush got Carl Rove to manage the selling for him.

It is a national disgrace.
 

Kathy

Well-known member
The problems with bureaucratic inability to get the job done transends our border. Not all cases are the result of poor action. An Alberta Energies and Utilities Board employee stated at a meeting the other night that in the last 10 years applications for new Oil and gas wells, facilities and pipelines have gone from 10,000 per year to 50,000 per year in Alberta, alone. The staff to handle this up-swell in applications has not increased at all over these last 10 years. In other words, they are swamped and many applications do get rubber stamped.

The other joke, is that only 0.1% of the entire Alberta budget goes to the Department of Environment. So you can understand why I don't think they have a handle on the situation in Alberta.

This is why I say it comes down to the individual. We need to stand up for our beliefs, and demand action - no matter what the concern.

We had thought that Mr. Harper would be better than the past PM Mr. Martin, and maybe in some ways he will be? However, the influence of the special interest groups, especiall the military defense contractors lobby on our government is unprecedented. For heaven's sake, he made their former head man his new Defense Minister!

Canada is now going to spend 15 billion dollars on new military equipment, which is needed. But, we aren't going to have a tender process for the contracts. We are just giving it to some US company that no doubt has lobbied the government in many unique ways.

Canada only has around 34 million people in the whole country. We are being sold out to American, British, German and Chinese corporations by our own governments who can't see the value of their own people, resources and future because of the blind staggers brought on by the promise of big bucks.

Canada should be in a position of power. We should control the development of our resources so that our environment is protected, our health is protected and the resource will last for more than a few generations. Interest rates are starting to reflect the over-heated economy. But I see no slow down yet. The rates are still very low compared to the '80s.

There is even talk of bringing in foreign drilling rigs and crews to drill for the gas because our guys and rigs are already busy and tied up for many years. I draw the line here. If we can't handle the development with our own people who are citizens and live here (raise their families here) and keep their money in the community, I say the development should be delayed until we can, or more people actually immigrate here.

IT is all about greed. Financial struggles put many landowners, farmer and ranchers in a jam. I am grateful to have saved enough money that I don't have to accept O&G development, unless it is under terms which protect my family and my land. Unfortunately, they can just go next door and develop. We all still breath the same contaminated air.

It is hard for me to explain sometimes, but we aren't likely to change our own situation in North America, until we go back to the UK BSE situation and unearth the truth. The snowball started rolling there.
 

bse-tester

Well-known member
Econ101 wrote:

We need a real president, not a Don Quiote. I thought Bush would be it, but it doesn' look like it. He and the republicans snuggled up closer to K street than politics was before.

At least you can vote him out next time around but BSE will not listen to any vote, Republican or Democrate! BSE is non-partisan in how it works. Hell, it will kill anyone and anything that is susceptable to it without remorse or a single thought to how the economy is on any given day. BSE will always be the one thing that politicians can count on to make hay and to piss off those of us who wish only to get at it, expose it and alienate it from the national herd. But they, you know them, the ones in power, with the power that we gave them, seem to think that by passing it off as the next generation's concern and not that of the present, will always find a way to disregard that which is going to rise up and create grief for many many people once the incubation period reaches maximum.

Then what, we misdiagnose it as something other than a TSE like vCJD, but rather the old standby, Demenia!!! Politics are such wonderful antics these days.
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Kathy I only have a minute so I have to make this short. The reason the contracting process for the military is the way it is. We need the equipement YESTERDAY! We are in the middle of a war. The longer it takes to get gear the more casualties we take. We should have had all this stuff before we even went to war.
 

Kathy

Well-known member
If the USA's war on terror, is our war, and we continue to take our troops into countries that the USA decides has too many "terrorists" - we will be at war forever! Which is just what the military industrial complex wants!

We shouldn't be in Afganastan doing the things which are making our soldiers targets, ie: hunting down people who disagree with the USA occupation of their country.

Our troops, in my opinion, should be brought home.

RoperAB, do you condone the use of depleted uranium weaponry? Because this is widely used by the USA, and Britain. The American's whom I have spoken to, who condone its use, say they need them to protect the troops.

Maybe we shouldn't have rushed head long into an "offensive" seek and destroy mission before we had the appropriate tools. Now we have been put between a rock and a hard place.

We went over there to help rebuild the country, and some troops are still trying to accomplish this task. However, it must be difficult for the people of Afganastan to determine if they are there to help, when another segment of our troops have only one mission, shoot and kill terrorists.

Do you notice how they announce on the TV or radio, "soldier's captured or killed 200 insurgents". Well, I for one, want to know how many they captured compared to how many they killed.

The vote a few weeks ago, should have been to bring them home. That is what the majority of Canadians want. But Mr Harper stated it didn't even matter (the result of the vote), he was determined to keep them there no matter what. Had the Liberal chicken sh*** MPs that abstained from voting that day, done so (and to bring them home); Mr. Harper's actions would have been a direct conflict with the wishes of the house of commons.

I don't fault our troops one bit. They are doing what they are told to do. But, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't send them overthere (in a DU contaminated environment) to rebuild things, while at the same time you are behaving and seen as the aggressor.

Japan pulled out, and I don't think it was because they didn't have the military hardware to back their troops up.

(I appreciate the open discussion of this subject.)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
If the USA's war on terror, is our war, and we continue to take our troops into countries that the USA decides has too many "terrorists" - we will be at war forever! Which is just what the military industrial complex wants!

So if its USA's war, then why are they suicide bombing and killing prople in Europe, the UK, Asia, mideast, Australia, the South Pacific, etc. etc.? Why did they just arrest a bunch in Canada that were plotting to cut off your Prime Ministers head? Boy are you naive-- as an infidel it does not matter where you live, they want you dead.....I'd just as soon kill them in Afghanistan or keep them busy there, rather than having them set off a baby nuke in New York or Montreal..

One of these days Canadians will get a rude awakening- just like the American public did on 9/11... All the experts agree that Al Quaeda is planning or implementing the next attack (altho the military pressure on them has kept them disrupted)- and that they want it to be much bigger and more disastrous with more publicity exposure than 9/11- and they would like to pull it off in the US, but if that becomes too tough they would settle for any freeworld country.... What country would give them more exposure than little old naive neighbor Canada- that already has over 70 identified terrorist groups operating within their borders....
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Kathy said:
If the USA's war on terror, is our war, and we continue to take our troops into countries that the USA decides has too many "terrorists" - we will be at war forever!

This is not the USA's war...these terrorist are at war with all freedom-loving, civilized countries of the world (the infidels) and Muslims that want the same freedom. Are you willing to give up your freedom and totally capitulate to the beliefs of these terrorist?
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Kathy why did you move to Alberta? You will never like it here. Or even if you are from here I really suggest you move to Quebec.
Everything was so silly in that post that to answer it would be like me taking the time to explain to Disagreeable that she is wrong when she says that Saddam was coperating with UN weapons inspectors.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Kathy, "Do you notice how they announce on the TV or radio, "soldier's captured or killed 200 insurgents". Well, I for one, want to know how many they captured compared to how many they killed."

Me, too. I want to know why it wasn't 400, 1000, 2000 and I hope they only captured one and killed the rest.
 

Murgen

Well-known member
What are these radical muslims fighting/terrorists for?

They don't want US capitalism in their countries!

I say give them what they want. Don't trade with them.

It's only the large corporations profiting!

If it was for the oil, then we'd be better to spend the weapons budgets on an alternative fuel source. What else does the Mideast have to sell us? SAND.

If they weren't fighting Americans, they'd be killing each other. Look at Hamas, lately. They are fighting other muslims, they just want the power. (sunni's and the shites in Iraq)

I think the US should be spending their money at home, to fight crime. 17,000 murdered in 2002.

Or is it about the number killed? and not $$$
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Murgen said:
What are these radical muslims fighting/terrorists for?

They don't want US capitalism in their countries!

I say give them what they want. Don't trade with them.

It's only the large corporations profiting!

If it was for the oil, then we'd be better to spend the weapons budgets on an alternative fuel source. What else does the Mideast have to sell us? SAND.

If they weren't fighting Americans, they'd be killing each other. Look at Hamas, lately. They are fighting other muslims, they just want the power. (sunni's and the shites in Iraq)

I think the US should be spending their money at home, to fight crime. 17,000 murdered in 2002.

Or is it about the number killed? and not $$$

I agree with you on everything except the capitalism, they're capitalists too. They just have this notion that they are superior over infidels (non muslims) and we are to be either converted or killed.

I wish we could just turn out backs on that part of the world and let them eat their oil. Our for-sale government has us addicted to oil, though. We could of been investing in solar, thermal, turbines, super conducters, etc.... but instead we subsidize oil companies and do all we can to not step on their toes. Our addiction has gotten us in two wars in Iraq, which has cost us billions upon billions and lost lives. Just think what we could of accomplished had we invested 10% of our Iraq wars bill into renewable energy? :mad:
 

Murgen

Well-known member
I agree with you on everything except the capitalism, they're capitalists too. They just have this notion that they are superior over infidels (non muslims) and we are to be either converted or killed.

Not all Muslims, the radicals come from a group within Saudi Arabia, I forget what they are called, but they are the poop disturbers.

It will come that they are disowned by the rest of the muslim world too.

They are killing more of their own than the rest of the world will ever kill in Wars.
 
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