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Bush/Cheney- War Criminal?

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Anonymous

Guest
Retired Gen. Taguba: Bush Administration Committed "War Crimes"
June 19, 2008 11:12 AM

Writing the forward to a Physicians for Human Rights study of 11 former detainees who were apparently tortured by US military personnel and later released, Army Maj. General Antonio Taguba (Ret.) writes that "there is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account."

Taguba, who led the Army’s official investigation into the Abu Ghraib scandal, says that the report from the doctors' human rights group based in Cambridge, Mass., "tells the largely untold human story of what happened to detainees in our custody when the Commander-in-Chief and those under him authorized a systematic regime of torture. This story is not only written in words: It is scrawled for the rest of these individuals’ lives on their bodies and minds. Our national honor is stained by the indignity and inhumane treatment these men received from their captors."

The report -- titled "Broken Laws, Broken Lives: Medical Evidence of Torture by US Personnel and Its Impact" -- details medical evaluations of 11 former detainees held by the US military in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay. None were ever charged with any crime; all have since been released. The report describes how the 11 detainees suffered alleged beatings, sodomy, electric shock, involuntary medication, threats to their lives and families, shacklings, sleep deprivation, and other forms of abuse.

Taguba says "these men deserve justice as required under the tenets of international law and the United States Constitution. And so do the American people."

The White House says it is not U.S. policy to torture detainees.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/06/retired-gen-tag.html

Ex-State Dept. official: Hundreds of detainees died in U.S. custody, at least 25 murdered.»

At today’s House Judiciary Subcommittee on Civil Rights hearing on torture, Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Colin Powell, told Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) that over 100 detainees have died in U.S. custody, with up to 27 of these declared homicides:

NADLER: Your testimony said 100 detainees have died in detention; do you believe the 25 of those were in effect murdered?

WILKERSON: Mr. Chairman, I think the number’s actually higher than that now. Last time I checked it was 108.



A February 2006 Human Rights First report found that although hundreds of people in U.S. custody had died and eight people were tortured to death, only 12 deaths had “resulted in punishment of any kind for any U.S. official.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/18/ex-state-dept-official-hundreds-of-detainees-died-in-us-custody-at-least-25-murdered/

Cheney linked to torture tactics
Leadership failed at top levels
Tom Ramstack (
Thursday, June 19, 2008

A former military officer who served as chief of staff to former Secretary of State Colin Powell on Wednesday said Vice President Dick Cheney probably knew the U.S. military was using torture on Iraqi detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and at prisons in Iraq.

Col. Lawrence B. Wilkerson's testimony before a House panel followed revelations this week that detainees were subjected to beatings and other aggressive interrogation techniques with the authorization of government attorneys.

"At what level did American leadership fail?" Col. Wilkerson said during a hearing before the House Judiciary subcommittee on the Constitution, civil rights and civil liberties. "I believe it failed at the highest levels of the Pentagon, in the Vice President's Office and perhaps even in the Oval Office."

Painful interrogation techniques were apparently authorized in a Feb. 7, 2002, order signed by President Bush that also said al Qaeda and Taliban detainees were not to be considered prisoners of war. The order was based on a legal memo from the White House counsel's office.

Prisoner-of-war status is supposed to protect captives from torture under the Geneva Conventions.

After they received the president's order, Pentagon officials compiled a list of interrogation techniques that later were used on detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison, Guantanamo and elsewhere, according to documents released by the Senate Armed Services Committee this week. The documents state that CIA agents contributed to the plan to use the aggressive interrogation techniques.

During an Oct. 2, 2002, meeting with military and intelligence officials at Guantanamo, the documents state that CIA counterterrorism lawyer Jonathan Fredman said torture "is basically subject to perception." He also reportedly said, "If the detainee dies, you're doing it wrong."

Col. Wilkerson said, "The president may have been ignorant of the worst parts of the failure."

Douglas Feith, one of the government attorneys suspected of contributing legal advice for the Defense Department's authorization of aggressive interrogation techniques, had notified the committee he would not appear at the hearing Wednesday.

Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler, New York Democrat, said Mr. Feith, a former undersecretary of defense for policy, would be compelled to testify later.

"Mr. Feith's unwillingness to attend voluntarily and provide the truth about this government's actions shows a fundamental disrespect for Congress and the American people," Mr. Nadler said.

He also said the military's use of so-called waterboarding, beatings and putting prisoners in painful "stress positions" appears to be "more widespread and the legal justifications more flimsy than have been initially reported. Evidence also appears to be mounting that officials at the highest levels of this administration may have been directly involved to a far greater extent and far earlier in the process than had been previously represented to Congress and to the American people."

Waterboarding refers to putting a cloth over a restrained person's mouth and nose, then pouring water over them to give them the sensation of drowning.

Daniel Levin, former acting assistant attorney general, testified that he contributed legal advice on torture to the Bush administration, but that he told high-level officials that it was unjustified under international law.
http://www.washtimes.com/news/2008/jun/19/cheney-linked-to-torture-tactics/

I watched the hearing in which Col. Wilkerson testified- and altho he said there is no direct evidence to Bush's involvement- he said there is that Cheney was well aware and approving what was happening... He also testified that he believed that when all the evidence came out- Cheney and several in the Administration (Rumsfeld, David Addington, Alberto Gonzales, William J. Haynes II, John Yoo; and Timothy E. Flanigan,) would be indicted by the World Courts in some countries as War Criminals for authorizing the illegal behavior - and said he would advise they not travel outside the US boundaries....

Also in one of the hearings it became apparent that the Administration knew they were breaking the law- because on one document they granted Advanced Immunity--- immunity ahead of the Fact to anyone caught- something no-one, not even King George, can legally do....

But daily its shown he could care less about little things like laws and the Constitution....

No wonder the Supreme Court is seeking oversight over a runaway Administration....
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I thought this was interesting that this poll was attached to a Washington Post article that starts out about Bush/Cheney being called War Criminals....Fitting..

Interestingly in the hearings I watched-Col. Wilkerson testified that he and Colin Powell had talked several times about what was coming out about the illegal acts and falsehoods put out by King George - and especially concerning the possibility of him/U.S. committing war crimes- and how much that had lost the US all the standing and support that they had had around the world- and much of the power the State Dept had to work with resolving problems around the world.....
:(

Poll Watch


Harris Interactive reports: "The latest Harris Poll finds the nation in a foul political mood. President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice all register their worst ratings ever. More people than ever also think the country is on the wrong track. . . .

"President Bush's latest ratings are 24 percent positive and fully 75 percent negative. Previously, his worst numbers were 26 percent positive and 72 percent negative in April of this year. His ratings are substantially worse than those of any president, except for Jimmy Carter (22%-77% in July 1980), since Harris first started measuring them in 1963.

"Vice President Cheney's ratings are even worse, 18 percent positive and 74 percent negative, compared to his previous low of 21 percent positive, 74 percent negative last July."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/06/18/BL2008061801546_5.html
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike said:
Must be lonely up there............

Posting to yourself as much as you do.................. :roll:

Actually Mike I just like reminding some of the neocon Repubs of the low depths their chosen Champion, and the neocon Congress's failure for 6 years to do any oversight, has taken this country....

And its kind of a "I told you so", since about 3 years ago I saw thru the flag waving, chest beating, Goebbels type propogandizing and lies-- and quit swallowing the Kool Aid on all King Georges B.S.-- but was chastised and bashed on here even when I questioned his actions or reasoning...

As these hearings go on- and more and more former members of the Administration come forward with the TRUTH- and ALL the information- I feel more and more vindicated....Especially to see many of these Republicans in Congress finally waking up-- with another one yesterday in the hearings calling for deeper investigation and see where they lead- with charges on whoever if thats what the investigation reveals....

So I'm going to continue to enjoy the "I Told You So" posts- even if none of the neocon backers want to hear or see it... :wink: :lol: :p
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
Mike said:
Must be lonely up there............

Posting to yourself as much as you do.................. :roll:
Must frost you all over, having OT posting irrefutable truth when ALL you can find to post is opinions from unsupportable neocon rags.........
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Goodpasture said:
Mike said:
Must be lonely up there............

Posting to yourself as much as you do.................. :roll:
Must frost you all over, having OT posting irrefutable truth when ALL you can find to post is opinions from unsupportable neocon rags.........[/quoteT

See what you have done now Oldtimer you have taught Goofpasture a new word NEOCON. One that really no longer has any meaning because you have over used it and Goofpasture is jumping in on the bandwagon!!!! Too late with too little ammo.
 

Ben H

Well-known member
Neocons are a problem, we need to revert back to REAL conservatives, conservativism makes sense over liberalism any day and has proven iteslf after every period run by the liberals. Unfortunately the liberal and socialist agenda starts trickling back in until things get bad. Congress has a liberal majority now and guess what, their approval rating of congress is far worse then the presidents. The country has gotten much worse at a faster rate since they took the majority with all their promises. They continue to think that increasing government is the answer. The congress has lost touch with reality in their DC environment, not listening to the people they represent. Now they want to control refineries? Why don't we just bring Chavez into the US to run for President?

I don't see how you can have war crimes against an enemy who is not covered under the Geneva Convention, how many of you have seen the video of Nicholas Berg having his head severed off while screaming and hearing the gurgling noise. I've been over to the sand box, I had tolerance for them but it's gone. Once you learn what Islam is really about then nothing should be off limits. I did my research with an open mind, the more I learned about what the Koran says, the less open my mind was. I can't think of anything our government could do against these peope that wouldn't be justified.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Ben H said:
I don't see how you can have war crimes against an enemy who is not covered under the Geneva Convention, how many of you have seen the video of Nicholas Berg having his head severed off while screaming and hearing the gurgling noise. I've been over to the sand box, I had tolerance for them but it's gone. Once you learn what Islam is really about then nothing should be off limits. I did my research with an open mind, the more I learned about what the Koran says, the less open my mind was. I can't think of anything our government could do against these peope that wouldn't be justified.

But thats what one person testifiying brought up- If we start acting like they do- then they have won!!!!

The strength of this country for over 200 years hasn't been because of our economy greatness or our military might- its because of our ideals- and our founding beliefs in truth and justice for all- and our laws and Constitution that puts noone (not even King George or his Stooges) above those laws and our ability to always put our ideals and morality above those who oppose us....

Like the State Dept. Chief of Staff- Col. Wilkerson testified to- this now has greatly reduced the standing and respect the US had thruout the world because of these ideals and beliefs we have so long honored, promoted, and millions have fought and died for...
 

Ben H

Well-known member
We are fighting an enemy who breaks all the rules that we have learned to go by, you need to understand Islam and Koran. This is unlike anything we have dealt with before. The first mistake is not calling things as they are. No matter how you look at it, the war they have declared is about religion. This country has lost it's guts for war, we are afraid to do what it takes to finish the job. We are combating an ideal who's goal is to convert the world to Sharia Law and it's their religous duty to see that it happens. We can stop political correctness in its tracks now or we can continue this downward spiral to our destruction of the country that we have loved.
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
I suppose Democrat President Truman qualifies as a War Criminal for dropping the Bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent non combatants?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
loomixguy said:
I suppose Democrat President Truman qualifies as a War Criminal for dropping the Bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent non combatants?

Nope--altho many of those Japanese were non combatants they were supporting combat forces that were fighting us...

That is very different than taking a detainee, prisoner, or whatever you want to call them- that is in your custody and beating them to death, drowning them, or whatever way causing their death during torture and detention (none of which were in the act of escaping or resisting)-- all of which are illegal by US law, US Military Code, and International Law....

Then we become no different than those that cut Bergs head off....Its just that instead of sending out the video like the terrorists did- the CIA/Bushies destroyed all the videos to cover up the evidence against themselves..
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Ben H said:
We can stop political correctness in its tracks now or we can continue this downward spiral to our destruction of the country that we have loved.

What you call political correctness just happens to be laws, ideals, rules and regulations and a Constitution that our founding fathers brought forward and our belief in that has worked for over 200 years- and made our country the admired worlds leader it was ...One of the reasons the radical terrorists despise us so much....

The damage the Bush/Cheney crew have made to our rule of law- and our Constitution scare me much more than any AK-47 packing, sword wielding terrorist ever could- no matter what tribe or religion he/she/it belongs to....
 

Ben H

Well-known member
1993 WTC Attempt 1
1995 Ssudi Bombing
1996 Khobar Towers in Saudi
1998 Embassies in Africa
2000 USS Cole

All of these happened under Clinton, he vowed to punish those responsible. We knew where Bin Laden was, we had a Delta team ready to extract him. He was worried about a lack of evidence or maybe some US lives lost. Instead they sent in a cruise missile that didn't work and allowed Bin Laden to show his people that he can stand up to us. Had we done what it takes back then, the WTC could be still standing today, all those people didn't have to die. How about those attacks in other countries since 9/11, they haven't happened here yet.

Now the Supreme Court has made this decision to apply the constitution to our prisoners? Islam is laughing at us, they are now able to use our legal system against us. It's their job to interpret law, not make it.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
That's funny, it talks about us, not foreign citizens. Last time I checked, Haji didn't call himself one of the people of the United States.

Look what political correctness has done to France, Denmark and England. If they don't start calling things as they are they will be Islamic nations.

This is unlike any enemy we have dealt with since we have formed this country, again, you need to understand what their overall objective is. That's for the world to pray to Allah 5 times a day. People call these fighters extremists or radicals, I disagree, they are the ones doing exactly what the Koran tells them to. How much of the Muslim world do you hear denouncing their actions? What about the peaceful verses in the Koran? Well guess what, there are lots of contradictions, the Koran is not in Chronological order, it's bigger verses followed by shorter ones. They are allowed to contradict and you ignore the prior verse that is contradicted. This is when Allah saw that Islam wasn't being spread peacefully so the prophet Mohammad had add to the Koran the not so peaceful verses.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Ben H said:
Clinton, he vowed to punish those responsible. .......... He was worried about a lack of evidence or maybe some US lives lost. .



And this is considered a ' faulty' characteristic of a president? :roll: :roll: :roll:


Maybe if GW had of slowed down and thought of more productive and less destructive ways, to the US and Iraq ......we'd not be in the boat we're in now.


Look at the mess Afghanistan is in because he ' cut & run" from there to Iraq!! :roll: :roll:


How some of you can reason this out to the mantra " Bush is always right" is truly a credit to the creativity of the human brain.
 

Larrry

Well-known member
How some of you can reason this out to the mantra " Bush is always right" is truly a credit to the creativity of the human brain.

If that's what you take from the posts on here by conservatives your brain has to be completely disengaged when you read their posts.
 

Mike

Well-known member
How some of you can reason this out to the mantra " Bush is always right" is truly a credit to the creativity of the human brain.

I challenge you to show a post by anyone here that states, "Bush is always right". Or anything close to that effect.

Come on. Be a big girl and show us.

We're patiently waiting

I, for one, have called for his impeachment on the Borders agents case.

The constant & incessant protection of Clinton by you folks is where the joke is....

At least we realize when a mistake is made. You'all haven't a clue of what
that concept is........................................

This is the problem in Washington now. With the Dems, there is no middle ground. :roll:
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Mike said:
How some of you can reason this out to the mantra " Bush is always right" is truly a credit to the creativity of the human brain.

I challenge you to show a post by anyone here that states, "Bush is always right". Or anything close to that effect.

Come on. Be a big girl and show us.

We're patiently waiting

I, for one, have called for his impeachment on the Borders agents case.

The constant & incessant protection of Clinton by you folks is where the joke is....

At least we realize when a mistake is made. You'all haven't a clue of what
that concept is........................................

This is the problem in Washington now. With the Dems, there is no middle ground. :roll:

:agree:

Too many on here are just wanting to point fingers at Bush in any way they can with tunnel vision so bad they cannot see anything else thus actually weakening their actual case and turning people against the poster by default!
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
loomixguy said:
I suppose Democrat President Truman qualifies as a War Criminal for dropping the Bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent non combatants?

Nope--altho many of those Japanese were non combatants they were supporting combat forces that were fighting us...

That is very different than taking a detainee, prisoner, or whatever you want to call them- that is in your custody and beating them to death, drowning them, or whatever way causing their death during torture and detention (none of which were in the act of escaping or resisting)-- all of which are illegal by US law, US Military Code, and International Law....

Then we become no different than those that cut Bergs head off....Its just that instead of sending out the video like the terrorists did- the CIA/Bushies destroyed all the videos to cover up the evidence against themselves..

There you go again, Whiner, talking out of both sides of your derriere. The Haji's at Abu Grahib and Gitmo weren't there because they were altar boys, Sunday School teachers, or Boy Scouts.

Go to amazon and search for a book titled Last Man Out, by Glenn McDole USMC, Survivor of the Palawan Massacre during WWII. The book will explain what happened to many Japanese POW's, who were supposedly protected by the Geneva Convention, just like John McCain was covered by it while held prisoner by North Viet Nam. I dare you to buy it and read it. My cousin Glenn damn sure had a pair, something many of you Bush Haters lack. Possess testicular fortitude, you do not.

Ben is spot on on his assessment of the current situation. It's too bad the PC climate of our world now forbids us to go and do what NEEDS to be done. I hope he gives us more of his thoughts.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
loomixguy said:
Oldtimer said:
loomixguy said:
I suppose Democrat President Truman qualifies as a War Criminal for dropping the Bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent non combatants?

Nope--altho many of those Japanese were non combatants they were supporting combat forces that were fighting us...

That is very different than taking a detainee, prisoner, or whatever you want to call them- that is in your custody and beating them to death, drowning them, or whatever way causing their death during torture and detention (none of which were in the act of escaping or resisting)-- all of which are illegal by US law, US Military Code, and International Law....

Then we become no different than those that cut Bergs head off....Its just that instead of sending out the video like the terrorists did- the CIA/Bushies destroyed all the videos to cover up the evidence against themselves..

There you go again, Whiner, talking out of both sides of your derriere. The Haji's at Abu Grahib and Gitmo weren't there because they were altar boys, Sunday School teachers, or Boy Scouts.

Some were about what you said they were...After sitting for years in detention- unable to challenge their imprisonment- several, after the Supreme Court ordered status hearings, were found to have absolutely no connection to terrorists- some as young as 12 were found to have been conscripted by their government (Taliban) and served in such duties as cooks and orderlies-or had worked for the Taliban government( which was the official government of Afghanistan-and would have been an employeer/employee relationship similar to someone who was a mailman in the US)----- Another, a German citizen schoolteacher, was a refugee who had fled Chad with a mass exodus of refugees that ended up in Pakistan...He was teaching school in a Pakistani refugee camp when a Pakistani tribal mullah kidnapped him and took him to the Afghanistan border where they turned him over to the US troops as a terrorist in return for a $2500 reward (quite a chunk of money for them).... Testimony has came out that several of those turned in by the Tribal Chieftains as terrorists for US taxdollar rewards were just members of another tribe they've had a 500 year feud running with- and had no terrorist connections- but were a good way to make US tax dollars...

Whats not realized by most people is that of all those in Gitmo- the biggest share of them have been released... Many after finally getting Supreme Court ordered status hearings were found to have no terrorist connections and not be a danger and were released back to their native country- some who were still considered a danger are being held by their native countries....

Testimony in front of Congress/Courts were--Of all those in Gitmo- that have been held and released- only one has ever shown up again in terrorist activities- as he turned up blown apart as a succesful suicide bomber... But in investigating his release the military can't figure out how he was released because he was one of the ones designated that was dangerous and should not be- and there is no record of how or why or by whos order he was released....Reeks of CIA deal that backfired on them :roll: ....
 
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