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Bush Screws Up Again

mrj

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
I can not see Midwestern agriculture states sitting on roof tops crying because someone from 'Washington did not come save them.

If Midwestern folks are having to sit on their roof tops due to a flood.....you're probably gonna be major screwed buddy boy!!!

Cause if the mid west get flooded by a hurricane/hurricane induced floods 90% of the US will be beach front!

Taking you post as a bit tongue-in-cheek because of the reference to a tadal wave coming hundreds of miles inland, and to lighten things up a bit since you are all so somber on this thread (she said with a smile), here's a bit of western SD flood history:

June 9, 1972 there was what was called a 100 year flood when a storm cell stood still for a few hours and dropped 14 inches of rain, very nearly our usual TOTAL precip for a year). About 200 people in Rapid City, then with a population of maybe 35,000, were drowned. And, yes FEMA and some other government agencies did come and help with the clean-up and such.

1927 was the year of the "100 year flood" on the Bad River area in SD. Also on Brave Bull creek which runs through part of our ranch, including less than 100 yards from where I sit right now in my walk-out basement! The water ran four feet deep in the original Jones Ranch house, a mile south of me. No loss of life for our family, but several lives were lost in that flood. I guess neighbor helped neighbor with cleanup after that one....sure wasn't any government agency close enough to notice anything happened!

During the past almost 50 years of our marriage, we have had only one rain of more than 4 inches in one day and there was no flooding, since it was a relatively small area, and the bluestem grasses on our hills can soak up LOTS of water and hold it pretty well, especially after a long dry spell. Brave Bull Cr. floods sort of like flushing a toilet......fills up fast, and drains faster.

Historically, most floods on the Bad River, which empties into the Missouri at Ft. Pierre, have been from spring and summer thunderstorms, rather than snow melt, according to a pioneer in the area.

MRJ
 

IL Rancher

Well-known member
Most of the real bad floods in the midwest seem to be caused by icedams in the river.. I'm thinking Red River in North Dakota in sping of 97 and the Rock River around here is constantly flooding in the spring and knocking peoples homes out.. Same as Des Plaines River near Chicago... Lets just say that the people who live there get lots of help and ask for more from the government each time it happens... The government now however is basically saying they won't provide the money to rebuild houses in these flood plains anymore.. Why folks build in a place that seems to flood every other year is beyond me.. Of course, some cities are built below see level, some cities reverse the flow of rivers and some cities pave the flood plain and build dikes and berms to shoot the problem down stream from them..
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
jigs said:
Red Robin said:
jigs said:
know the similarities between a divorce in Arkansas and a tornado in Oklahoma?

both cases, some old boy is about to lose his double wide!
You elitist! Picking on your poor neighbor.

damned right I am better than him!!!! just look at my place! it has a front porch and everything!
hillbillyshack.jpg

Sure didn't realize you people in Northern Kansas lived so good. I keep promising the wife we will one day own a place like that!
 

schnurrbart

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
schnurrbart said:
passin thru said:
AS of now it is not a "federal" disaster designated area...........state declared yes but not federal.
A side note on the helicopters dropping feed, they drop feed but the rancher is billed for the feed.

I'm just wondering how many people died, how many houses were lost, how many cars and trucks were destroyed, how many businesses were lost, when was the last time they had a major blizzard and most of all, why are you making fun of bush and his "brownie, you're doin' a heckava job" FEMA boss?

P.S. Who do you think paid the wages of the flight crews and the fuel and maintenance of the choppers?

Colorado is not New Orleans (LA) when things get bad they take care of themselves. Send out their National Guard, make plans individually. Might be some cows needing hay (and even then it is National Guard solving it) but you will not see them sitting on roof tops in the masses starving because they can not feed themselves with out welfare checks.

Catastrophes like this should barely ever need federal help, a strong state can handle most stuff like this on their own.

You failed to answer my questions. Try again.
 

schnurrbart

Well-known member
passin thru said:
It was a joke, but no we have to get all defensive. Wouldn't want anything to get in our way of Bashing Bush now would we. If you notice these ranchers are paying for the feed and donations are helping with the other costs. Sure the gov is helping, but it wouldn't make a blip on the radar screen compard to other disasters. Instead of neighbors robbing neighbors, you have neighbors helping neighbors.

Keep your Bush Bashing to yourself on this one or you lose



http://www.chieftain.com/metro/1168090513/2

By ANTHONY A. MESTAS
THE PUEBLO CHIEFTAIN
LA JUNTA - Still reeling from a blizzard that buried the region last week, Lower Arkansas Valley residents looked to the sky Friday morning and saw something they really don't need right now.

More falling snow.

While crews across the region continued cleanup efforts in the wake of the winter storm that blasted through Southeastern Colorado last week, another storm hit Friday.

Officials said this one wasn't even close to being as bad, though.

Snow flurries fell throughout the day in several of the towns hit by last week's storm, but the amount of snowfall was only a dusting by comparison.

In Lamar and La Junta, snow fell off and on throughout the day with none sticking to the ground.

According to the National Weather Service, small snow flurries sprinkled the valley but the storm quickly moved on into Kansas.

Emergency management officials said that Friday's snowfall did not disrupt their cleanup efforts or the cattle rescue missions that continued across the region.

In Kim, isolated on U.S. 160 between Trinidad and Springfield and approximately 60 miles south of La Junta, residents and volunteers worked to dig out the small town and its estimated 70 citizens.

Staff Sgt. Scott Sheldon of the Colorado National Guard said that 15 members of his unit were deployed to Kim earlier this week.

Sheldon said the relief work did not get off to a good start earlier, but got better Thursday when bulldozer equipment arrived.

"Early on, our Hemmits (military-style trucks) were getting stuck out here and we could do little to get to the several ranchers in the area," Sheldon said. On Thursday, the National Guard brought in three bulldozers to clear paths for the Hemmits, which are eight-wheel-drive military vehicles. Each wheel is six feet high.

"The bulldozer cut paths to ranchers' farms and we were able to get to them, so that's a good thing," Sheldon said.

Sheldon said the Air National Guard also began dropping hay to area ranchers on Thursday.

"They dropped hay from a C-130 (cargo plane) in places we have been unable to reach near the canyons," he said.

The National Guard suspended air operations Friday because of the latest snowfall in Pueblo, where a C-130 had been taking off, and due to windy conditions in other areas.

But hay deliveries continued on the ground, said Rick Bell, a National Guard spokesman.

Sheldon said the National Guard was using the Hemmit vehicles to deliver eight tons of hay each trip in areas near Kim. "We stacked eight hay bales on the Hemmits with a crane," Sheldon said.

State emergency management officials say that close to 3,000 bales of hay had been dropped across eight counties since Tuesday.

Snow is blamed for the deaths of an estimated 3,500 cattle stranded on rangeland in southeastern parts of the state. State emergency management officials said it will take weeks before an official death toll is calculated.

Sheldon said Jefferson County officials also sent a Snow Cat tractor to help assist workers in Kim.

Sheldon, who is stationed in Colorado Springs, said propane dealers were delivering the home fuel to people Friday and will continue today.

"Everyone seems to be on propane out here so we finally cleared enough paths for the much-needed fuel to be delivered," Sheldon said.

"It's been a good operation. We also have been trying to clean out people's driveways," he said.

National Guard officials said they won't be leaving the area in the foreseeable future.

Anita Robertson, who runs the Kim Outpost, said the week has been crazy.

Robertson, who lives 20 miles west of Kim, said she went to town Tuesday.

"The first morning I came in they had just plowed down the middle of the highway (U.S. 160) and it was just one lane and then Wednesday they cleared the highway. It's completely dry now," she said.

Robertson said Kim High School has been set up as a shelter for the National Guard.

"Some of our local women are cooking meals for volunteer workers, CDOT crews, and National Guard soldiers. No one is stranded here, this is just set up for the workers," she said.

Robert Shannon, who ranches 15,000 acres in Kim, said most of his 250 head of cattle are safe. He said he was able to get most of the herd rounded up between storms.

"Some of them have scattered. But, most of them are fending pretty good," he said.

Abel Benavidez, who runs a cow-calf operation in the town of Model, said private contractors were in his area on Thursday opening pathways to hay stacks and pastures.

"Thank God the county was able to hire contractors to open up those trails," he said. While hay drops helped, he said, ranchers really needed the ground support to be able to reach their cattle.

Because ranchers are being asked to pay for the hay bales dropped to their herds, a fund has been set up to help pay for the animal and livestock feeding operations. Dr. Kevin Dennison, with the Colorado Veterinary Medical Association, will administer the funds. Checks, cash and credit card donations will be accepted.

Financial donations can be mailed to CVMF, 789 Sherman St., Suite 200, Denver 80203.

For more information call 303-318-0447.

Workers in Rocky Ford, La Junta, Lamar and towns in between were busy Friday cleaning side streets. Some of the main streets in the three larger towns have been cleared.

La Junta city crews cleared a portion of Third Street on Friday. One by one, a convoy of five city and local company dump trucks hauled snow to a pile located far from traffic. That portion of the street was closed for most of the day.

Jack Wolfe, chief operating officer with Southeast Colorado Power Association, said electricity had been restored throughout the valley.

"We are in pretty good shape right now; all my crews were out repairing lines all day Friday," Wolfe said.

Wolfe said people who still do not have power should call the utility at 719-384-2551.

Emergency crews in Baca County fought blowing snow in the late afternoon.

"We are still moving forward with our operations. There is some blowing snow on county roads that we already have opened, so the snow is hindering us a little," said Riley Frazee, director of emergency management in Baca County.

Las Animas County road crews had cleared 95 percent of the roads to one lane by Friday morning and had begun to clear roads in the more remote private developments around the county.

Las Animas County Manager William Cordova, who is in charge of emergency response efforts, said crews would begin to go back and cut a wider swath to allow traffic to move more easily in both directions.

Sunnier weather has helped to melt some of the snow from the two year-end storms. However more than 2 feet remained in most places with as many as 8 inches additional snow possible by this morning.

The Colorado National Guard continued to deliver care packages and medicine to those in remote locations and will likely stay in Las Animas County through Sunday.

City Manager Jim Soltis said crews continued to clear city streets on Friday, focusing on emergency and school bus routes.

"We’ve had private contractors and city crews in service for several days," he said, adding that most of the downtown streets had been cleared.

"Most residential streets have at least one lane clear," he said.

The city is still asking residents to look in on their neighbors, particularly the elderly. Meals on Wheels has been able to deliver meals to many, he said.

Chieftain correspondent Tammy Alhadef contributed to this report.

Sure it was a joke. We all know that but it was a mean spirited joke making fun of the people of New Orleans and the coastal are hit by the storm and the way they have complained about the lack of promised govt aid. We all know that also. You quit bashing Dems and liberals and we will quit bashing bush in retaliation.
 

schnurrbart

Well-known member
IL Rancher said:
Most of the real bad floods in the midwest seem to be caused by icedams in the river.. I'm thinking Red River in North Dakota in sping of 97 and the Rock River around here is constantly flooding in the spring and knocking peoples homes out.. Same as Des Plaines River near Chicago... Lets just say that the people who live there get lots of help and ask for more from the government each time it happens... The government now however is basically saying they won't provide the money to rebuild houses in these flood plains anymore.. Why folks build in a place that seems to flood every other year is beyond me.. Of course, some cities are built below see level, some cities reverse the flow of rivers and some cities pave the flood plain and build dikes and berms to shoot the problem down stream from them..

You should also realize that in most cases the flooding of a river around a town of 35000 and even the Des Plaines river is not going to displace millions of people and cause billions of dollars damage and kill as many people and animals as a 2-300 mile wide hurricane or typhoon. Even the flooding of the Missouri several years ago didn't do that much damage. And yes I do realize it was a joke, a little one, but a joke.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
schnurrbart said:
aplusmnt said:
schnurrbart said:
I'm just wondering how many people died, how many houses were lost, how many cars and trucks were destroyed, how many businesses were lost, when was the last time they had a major blizzard and most of all, why are you making fun of bush and his "brownie, you're doin' a heckava job" FEMA boss?

P.S. Who do you think paid the wages of the flight crews and the fuel and maintenance of the choppers?

Colorado is not New Orleans (LA) when things get bad they take care of themselves. Send out their National Guard, make plans individually. Might be some cows needing hay (and even then it is National Guard solving it) but you will not see them sitting on roof tops in the masses starving because they can not feed themselves with out welfare checks.

Catastrophes like this should barely ever need federal help, a strong state can handle most stuff like this on their own.

You failed to answer my questions. Try again.

I assume you are meaning the question who paid for it??? The tax payers paid for it.

My point is not that the Midwestern states do not receive financial nor help with catastrophes hit. My point is a Midwesterner would not sit on the roof tops starving, they would not stay when being told to leave then whine about no one saving them. They would not sit on the side of the road and starve to death if on one brought them food. And they would not be looting and shooting people.

There might have been some cows that could not get hay, but i bet you the vast majority in CO had their cupboards full of food, and the fire wood cut and ready for the storm that hit them.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
schnurrbart said:
IL Rancher said:
Most of the real bad floods in the midwest seem to be caused by icedams in the river.. I'm thinking Red River in North Dakota in sping of 97 and the Rock River around here is constantly flooding in the spring and knocking peoples homes out.. Same as Des Plaines River near Chicago... Lets just say that the people who live there get lots of help and ask for more from the government each time it happens... The government now however is basically saying they won't provide the money to rebuild houses in these flood plains anymore.. Why folks build in a place that seems to flood every other year is beyond me.. Of course, some cities are built below see level, some cities reverse the flow of rivers and some cities pave the flood plain and build dikes and berms to shoot the problem down stream from them..

You should also realize that in most cases the flooding of a river around a town of 35000 and even the Des Plaines river is not going to displace millions of people and cause billions of dollars damage and kill as many people and animals as a 2-300 mile wide hurricane or typhoon. Even the flooding of the Missouri several years ago didn't do that much damage. And yes I do realize it was a joke, a little one, but a joke.

Size does not matter, we can break this down per capita of looting, helplessness, crime, murder. When all said and done I guarantee you that a Midwestern city hit by Tornado, Flood would not even show up on the radar as far as crime and helplessness per capita during the catastrophe.

No matter how you want to spin it the facts in the end is that New Orleans has a different class of people than Most Midwestern Cities. You can say its a racial thing or poverty thing, not sure what exactly it is but it is still there. All the PC crap in the world will not change it. It is just an obvious fact.
 

Mike

Well-known member
The 1993 Mississippi River flood affected nine states and totally demolished over 75 towns.

I didn't hear any whining from those people. :roll:
 

IL Rancher

Well-known member
ACtually what I am saying Schnurrbart is that these are midwestern folks who are getting salt of the earth, we band together and don't ask for help treatment here actually do ask for help, at least in the midwestern cities.... I think instead of saying midwestern vs coastal plain or Northeast vs Rocky mountains it is more of an urban vs rural situation. .. I will film the folks who live on the rock river asking "Why didn't the mayor/governor/president/King of Siam whoever do something to help us, to stop this from happeneing. They will than go on to say they are just going to rebuild because they always lived here and hope it doesn't happen again next year even though it happened in summer of 93 (Holy Mississipi flooding), 96, 2000, 2002, 2004 they will act the same way when it happens again...

Everywhere you live there is going to be a problem with nature, be it huricanes in the Gulfcoast and Atlantic coast, Earthquakes ion the Pacific Rim, Crippling winter storms in the north and mountains or twisters in the plains area it is just a fact of life... That being said, why build your house in a place that is going to flood every 2-3 years... Why build and maintain a gigantic man made lake so you can build a major city below sea level.. In Chicago they reversed the flow of the Chicago river inorder to carry the stench of the old slaughter houses inland instead of into the lake.. Not a good day when they accidently broke part of the structure that made it happen and flooded major portions of the downtown area...
 

mrj

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
schnurrbart said:
IL Rancher said:
Most of the real bad floods in the midwest seem to be caused by icedams in the river.. I'm thinking Red River in North Dakota in sping of 97 and the Rock River around here is constantly flooding in the spring and knocking peoples homes out.. Same as Des Plaines River near Chicago... Lets just say that the people who live there get lots of help and ask for more from the government each time it happens... The government now however is basically saying they won't provide the money to rebuild houses in these flood plains anymore.. Why folks build in a place that seems to flood every other year is beyond me.. Of course, some cities are built below see level, some cities reverse the flow of rivers and some cities pave the flood plain and build dikes and berms to shoot the problem down stream from them..

You should also realize that in most cases the flooding of a river around a town of 35000 and even the Des Plaines river is not going to displace millions of people and cause billions of dollars damage and kill as many people and animals as a 2-300 mile wide hurricane or typhoon. Even the flooding of the Missouri several years ago didn't do that much damage. And yes I do realize it was a joke, a little one, but a joke.

Size does not matter, we can break this down per capita of looting, helplessness, crime, murder. When all said and done I guarantee you that a Midwestern city hit by Tornado, Flood would not even show up on the radar as far as crime and helplessness per capita during the catastrophe.

No matter how you want to spin it the facts in the end is that New Orleans has a different class of people than Most Midwestern Cities. You can say its a racial thing or poverty thing, not sure what exactly it is but it is still there. All the PC crap in the world will not change it. It is just an obvious fact.


I wonder if it is so much a "different class of people" as it is the culture of corruption Louisana has lived under for so long? When people in hard circumstances see people at all levels of local to the top of state government and their federal rep's. and senators skimming and scamming......should we be surprised when many of them develop an attitude of "I'm gonna get mine, too"?

I do wonder why more flood prone communities don't require buildings to be constructed so as to be more flood 'proof' by putting garages on the bottom level with living spaces above.

Why couldn't that even apply to public buildings with storage at the bottom, maybe police stations next, and/or hospitals, schools, shops; with appartments and other living spaces above? There proabaly are people coming up with some excellent designs, as I have watched a bit of that effort in the Gulf Coast of MI on TV over the past few months.

Anyway, there hopefully will be enforced requirements for people to leave under such conditions in the future.......and none left behind to do the looting would just be one benefit.

Most of us have heartfelt sympathy for genuine suffering and very little patience for those who have scammed and abused the 'system' and other non-govt. groups attempting to help.

MRJ
 

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