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Cal

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First they came for Israel, then they came for America...
By Dennis Prager

Feb 7, 2006

In 1945, the anti-Nazi German pastor Martin Niemoller wrote the following:

"First they came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me."

This famous statement can be updated for Europeans:

First they came for Israel, and we didn't speak up because we weren't Jews. Then they came for Lebanon's Christians, and we didn't speak up because we weren't Maronites. Then they came for America, and we didn't speak up because we weren't Americans. Then they came for Sudan's blacks, and we didn't speak up because we weren't Sudanese blacks. Then they came for us, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for us.

As long as Muslim demonstrators only shouted "Death to America" and "Death to Israel," Europe (and the rest of the world's Left) found reasons either to ignore the Nazi-like evil inherent in those chants (and the homicidal actions that flowed from them) or to blame America and Israel for the hatred.

But like the earlier Nazis, our generation's fascists hate anything good, not merely Jews and Americans. And now the Damascus embassy of Norway, a leading anti-Israel "peace at any price" country, has been torched. And more and more Norwegians, and Brits, and French, and Dutch, and Swedes, and the rest of the European appeasers who blamed America for 9-11 and blamed Israel for Palestinian suicide bombings, are beginning to wonder whether there just might be something morally troubling within the Islamic world.

Some on the Left here and in Europe are beginning to reassess whether America and Israel or their Islamic enemies are at fault.

The fact that major newspapers in most Western European countries published some or all of the cartoons that triggered the riots against Denmark, the country in which the offending cartoons of Muhammad first appeared, was a statement that at least some in Europe have had it with appeasement of Islamic violence.

And here in America, a left-of-center columnist for the Los Angeles Times, Tim Rutten, just wrote: "It's no longer possible to overlook the culture of intolerance, hatred and xenophobia that permeates the Islamic world."

As it happens, I have sympathy with the notion that newspapers and others need to be sensitive to religious, including Muslim, sensibilities. However, when Muslim governments and religious spokesmen attack the West for its insensitivity to Muslims and its anti-Muslim prejudice, one has entered the Twilight Zone. Because nowhere in the world is there anywhere near the religious bigotry and sheer hatred of other religions that exists in the Muslim world.

Christians nearly everywhere in the Arab and Muslim worlds are usually second-class citizens at best and terribly treated at worst.

The Taliban Islamic regime in Afghanistan blew up the unique Buddhist sculptures in their country because they didn't want even a trace of a non-monotheistic faith to survive in an Islamic country.

About a million non-Arab and non-Muslim men, women and children have been slaughtered by the Islamic regime in Sudan.

Nigerian Christians are periodically murdered by Islamic mobs.

And regarding Jews, Andrew Sullivan writes in this week's Time: "The Arab media run cartoons depicting Jews and the symbols of the Jewish faith with imagery indistinguishable from that used in the Third Reich."

As for the riots and Islamic government protests, one question needs to be posed to these people: Which casts Islam in a worse light -- political cartoons depicting Muhammad, or Muslims who murder innocents around the world in the name Allah and Islam?

Did any Jews riot when the Los Angeles Times published a cartoon of the holiest site in Judaism, the Western Wall, with its stones reconfigured to spell "hate"?

Did any Christians riot when museums displayed "Piss Christ," a crucifix submerged in artist Andres Serrano's urine?

What we have is a culture largely based on saving face and honor juxtaposed with a Judeo-Christian Western culture largely based on saving liberty and innocent life.

All of us, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, should pray that the better one wins.

Find this story at: http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/dennisprager/2006/02/07/185467.html
 

Cal

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About a million non-Arab and non-Muslim men, women and children have been slaughtered by the Islamic regime in Sudan.

Nigerian Christians are periodically murdered by Islamic mobs.
without anyone stopping them, stevec should be delighted!
 
A

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This just serves to prove the point that we should always stand up for our allies. No matter the cost. No matter the threats. No matter the whining of the liberal left.

"You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today."--Abraham Lincoln

George W. Bush seems to recognize this, as well. :D
 

Hanta Yo

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X said:
This just serves to prove the point that we should always stand up for our allies. No matter the cost. No matter the threats. No matter the whining of the liberal left.

"You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today."--Abraham Lincoln

George W. Bush seems to recognize this, as well. :D


YUP!, and I truly believe by being silent we give the opposition more power.
 

jigs

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as the Muslims boldly push for a pure society and denounce America as a filthy pig of a nation, I was amazed last night watching a show on PBS that depicted the trade of Soviet white women as sex slaves in Turkey. from there the women were traded and sold around the world......

looked like alot of muslim men were not as faithful to muhammed as they prolaim.......or perhaps enslaving women for beatings and sex is ok in that religion.
 

Broke Cowboy

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jigs said:
as the Muslims boldly push for a pure society and denounce America as a filthy pig of a nation, I was amazed last night watching a show on PBS that depicted the trade of Soviet white women as sex slaves in Turkey. from there the women were traded and sold around the world......

looked like alot of muslim men were not as faithful to muhammed as they prolaim.......or perhaps enslaving women for beatings and sex is ok in that religion.

Jigs - no insult intended - but you show your ignorance because you simply do not understand. I will attempt to clarify by providing some info for you to chew on.

Sura 2:191:

(Do not think for an instant this is taken out of context - it is not.)

The "paraphrase translation" goes as follows:

As a western or non-believing person you (we / I) can be taken and used like a cow - and disposed of with no crime considered to have been committed by a True Believer.

The literal - for the purist is:

SLAYING UNBELIEVERS is specifically commanded, though they can also be made slaves and their property can be confiscated. Non-muslims have no legal rights in Muslim societies. If unbelievers are not killed, they can be made to pay "Jizya," a tax to buy back rights like owning property, working, or going to school.


Go here and have a read - http://www.citizensoldier.org/koranone.html - just the highlighted stuff - then ask yourself if we should continue to use our values and our way of life and as a method of fighting this. From the eyes of the Muslim community, our tolerance is seen as a weakness and is to be exploited.

Moderates will tell you it is a religion of peace and yet Islam translates into "Submission" or words to that effect. In actuality they want you to believe "peace B.S." until it is too late to fight back - see Denmark, France, Poland, Germany and the UK.

True Islam wants you to submit completely and to die for the religion is considered the highest of honour. To take many non-believers with you is to make you an even better martyr.

From CT:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote - Unfortunately we tend to look at things as we are raised. We preach tolerance and we preach the ability to live our own lives. Unfortunately the vast majority of North American citizens do not believe it can happen - but Islam will come and it will conquer - unless good men and women rise up. Read on.

If you ever get a chance to visit the middle east, or Maylasia you will be in for a surprize.

Saudi Arabia is one example:

It is illegal to practise any religion other than Islam. They have the "religious police" who patrol and look for offenders. The offender can simply not wear appropriate clothing or not come to prayer when called. A beating can be administered in public, or close arrest can be then followed up with a beating. Arrest can be for a day or for many years. Torture is commonly administered in middle eastern jails. There are no rights for the imprisoned.

Al Jezeera - a television broadcasting operation - publicly announces the names of suicide bombers - treating them like heroes and encouraging others to treat these folks with honour. There are often broadcasts encouraging others to follow this step - and guarantee their entrance to heaven through the act of a martyr.

Islamists create and distribute videos to the media showing the actual rape/torture/murder of westerners specifically kidnapped for these productions.

Honour killings of sisters, mothers, daughters are quite common place. More so than the media would have you believe. Woe to the female member of a family who disobeys her male elder, spouse or guardian.

I have seen and witnessed - and I could go on.

It is important to remember the following:

As a western or non-believing person you (we / I) can be taken and used like a cow - and disposed of with no crime considered to have been committed.

You will never see this printed or said in western public media. And you will never believe what I have written until you either do some serious research or visit for yourself.

We cannot presume for one iota of an instant that we can fight this type of war, or survive in our own environment if we continue to use our present way of life as a way of combatting the enemy.

If we do - they love it - we show weakness (in their eyes) and they will eventually win. The actual fact is they truly have no respect for life - in the middle east it is incredibly cheap and can be ended in a heartbeat with NO feelings of guilt.

Tolerance and the ability to live ones life in the middle east exists - but only if you embrace Islam and live it to the fullest. Otherwise you will be imprisoned and possibly executed.

I will likely have stirred some feathers but before I go I will add one thing. It is happening in your country and it is happening in my country. Do not believe the majority of believers are peaceful. They will tell you this and they will want you to believe this.

But in the end we will be the ones to suffer - unless we embrace their way of life. It is the one way - there will be no tolerance and there will be no mercy.

It is their plan and it is not a secret.

I am sure there are many who will either disagree with me or castigate me - but this is what I have seen. End Quote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you worried yet? You should be - but it will soon be too late to do anything about it.

Islam is the most dangerous religion in the world today - it preaches death to non-believers and it truly believes any non-believers are not worthy of life unless to serve the Believer as a slave.

They see tolerance as weaknes to be exploited and that is why they will win in the end. We are tolerant in the face of their intolerance. They will use our own system against us. And we will help them!

B.C.
 

Broke Cowboy

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Anything I have heard leads me to believe the person holding this status does so only at the whim of the local ruler - and therefore can be eliminated at any time and through any manner.

After all they are not muslim and therefore there is no sin in disposing of them via death, deportation or simple imprisonment.

Modern Islam denounces any form of religion other than Islam - unless it suits the needs of the muslim community - and therefore can be tolerated until a means of disposing of that religion and those worshippers can be found.

As a non Muslim Sura 2:191 can be applied at any time.

Translation - SLAYING UNBELIEVERS is specifically commanded, though they can also be made slaves and their property can be confiscated. Non-muslims have no legal rights in Muslim societies. If unbelievers are not killed, they can be made to pay "Jizya," a tax to buy back rights like owning property, working, or going to school.

Therefore dhimmi - if this type of person exists - has no rights except to pay the tax and exist at the pleasure of those who rule them.

Essentially a slave who pays for the right to be a slave.

This may soon be our children or our children's children - as evidenced in Europe, Maylasia, pakistan and India.
 

Broke Cowboy

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reader (the Second) said:
Broke Cowboy said:
Women did not wear the clothes we associate now with Arab women in most countries (except Saudi Arabia which was the nexus of the fundamentalist movement). Christian Copts and Muslims in Egypt lived together. Ditto in Lebanon although there was a major power struggle between Christians and Muslims politically. They have laws distributing percentages and specific positions to each religion in the government.

Co-existance is now not tolerated in most places.

Sura 2:191 is now one of the favoured passages as it allows atrocities - in fact encouraged by Islam.

I know it is hard to believe - but in fact when one stops to think - when have there been huge outcries for peace from the muslim communities of the world? Never.

On the other hand when have there been huge outcries for "death to Islam" from the western religions and political leaders? Never.

It will be the cause of war - possibly within my lifetime - that will become global in extent. It will start in the middle east and it will travel to us - and it will be nuclear.

By being perceived as weak we are known as weak - and therefore vulnerable to attack.

Those in North America have no true realization as to how many are praying for this to happen.

The fact that we are tolerant is seen as being weak. We have never had to live as those in the middle east and therefore we judge them by our values and we judge them by our standards.

Big mistake. Huge mistake.

B.C.
 

Broke Cowboy

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stevec said:
Broke Cowboy said:
By being perceived as weak we are known as weak - and therefore vulnerable to attack.

Or is it being perceived as afraid? We show LOTS of indications that we are afraid.

Take your choice - 6 of one / half dozen of the other.

We are at risk because there is no reason to fear us - we are weak and vulnerable by our own design.

That is what bothers me.

B.C.
 

BBJ

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stevec said:
Broke Cowboy said:
By being perceived as weak we are known as weak - and therefore vulnerable to attack.

Or is it being perceived as afraid? We show LOTS of indications that we are afraid.

Of everyone on this site YOU are they one that I would consider to be afraid.

R2 wrote:
"I can attest to both of these things. Jordan also had laws so that police would stop unmarried couples and jail them for a crime against society. Palestinian society is feudal and honor killings happen regularly, usually when an unmarried daughter disgraces her family by consorting with or having relations with a man. She is killed, often by a brother or cousin."

I recall someone saying that we should get to know our enemies or some crap like that, well judging by that statement by R2 how many people on here think those are the type of people we need to "understand"?

No peace and love from me! If their beliefs are strong enough to kill a sister or cousin then I say bomb the whole damn bunch of 'em and get them first.
 

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HOW CAN YOU COMPARE THOSE PEOPLE TO US LET ALONE GOD?

God gave his Son up for a reason. He didn't kill him.
As for the words I want to say when I meet God those are frankly none of your business, do you think he wants to hear how one killed their sister?

I thouhgt you were just one of those that liked to talk BIG and like you were educated but now I pretty much decided that you are really just an extremeist that will say anything, especially if it's against America. You are really just wasting your time and have no significance so you just try and put on a show here.
 

Broke Cowboy

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stevec said:
Broke Cowboy said:
We are at risk because there is no reason to fear us - we are weak and vulnerable by our own design.

Funny, I thought we were a world power and the world leader. Manifest Destiny, and all that.

The ONLY thing that makes us different from some countries is the process of handing off power. (It isn't hereditary, but it sure is damn close when we have sons of Presidents instead of sons of Kings, isn't it?)

We are blind to our own hubris, just as the people who attack us are blind to theirs. (The rebel is always as proud and self-righteous as the authority he attacks. See King George and George Washington.)

We have a military that stops ships and does inspections in international waters. How do we get away with that? By what right do we do that? It isn't because we are weak and vulnerable! We intimidate people routinely.

People come here because they are afraid, (fleeing their petty despotic neighbors) increasing the paranoia baseline of our country, and surrendering their own country to paranoid individuals. They want to be on the side of the biggest bully, so they come here to feel "safe."

Being safe does not make us free, it makes us afraid. Courage is what makes people free.

Do not be afraid. -Pope John Paul II
Courage is knowing what not to fear - Plato

Courage does not come from a medal given by the Wizard of Oz.




Steve

I stopped by to read your reply.

I notice you tend to quote one line of conversation without taking it into the context of the entire conversation.

By taking my comments out of context, or by reading them as individual statements rather than as a whole with the entire conversation you tend to allow the point of the conversation to drift.

I believe you knew this and do this completely out of personal design. Too bad.

I find this quite frustrating and am not prepared to justify my comment - "We are at risk because there is no reason to fear us - we are weak and vulnerable by our own design." as an individual statement - it needs to be read as a whole with the conversation. I know you know that.

I have never feared calling the police, the fire fighter or the ambulance in the U.S. I have never seen the U.S. shoot someone just because he was a different religion. I have never seen the U.S. kidnap, rape and then cut the head oof of a female reporter. I do not se the U.S. providing bombers that walk into public areas and blow themselves up..

What I do see is the U.S. and it's allies attempting to come to grips with the fact that there is a group of people in the middle east that truly, truly wants us to SUBMIT to the rule of Islam - or die.

The baubles I happen to have - not many and certainly not of great value - were certainly not given to me by the Wizard of Oz. I might stress very strongly that the gentlemen who I call friends to this day - even though a couple are no longer with us - would certainly have a difficult time understanding why you speak the way you do.

An attempt to balance this by your remarks makes me realize you are not part of the solution - in fact you may be the problem - unless you do this simply as a diversion from your real life - whatever that may be.

I see now why folks get frustrated with you at times. I know I certainly am at the moment. I believe you are looking down your nose at me. I will certainly resist any opportunity to engage you in conversation in the future.

I am outa' this one.

B.C.
 

BBJ

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Broke Cowboy said:
stevec said:
Broke Cowboy said:
We are at risk because there is no reason to fear us - we are weak and vulnerable by our own design.

Funny, I thought we were a world power and the world leader. Manifest Destiny, and all that.

The ONLY thing that makes us different from some countries is the process of handing off power. (It isn't hereditary, but it sure is damn close when we have sons of Presidents instead of sons of Kings, isn't it?)

We are blind to our own hubris, just as the people who attack us are blind to theirs. (The rebel is always as proud and self-righteous as the authority he attacks. See King George and George Washington.)

We have a military that stops ships and does inspections in international waters. How do we get away with that? By what right do we do that? It isn't because we are weak and vulnerable! We intimidate people routinely.

People come here because they are afraid, (fleeing their petty despotic neighbors) increasing the paranoia baseline of our country, and surrendering their own country to paranoid individuals. They want to be on the side of the biggest bully, so they come here to feel "safe."

Being safe does not make us free, it makes us afraid. Courage is what makes people free.

Do not be afraid. -Pope John Paul II
Courage is knowing what not to fear - Plato

Courage does not come from a medal given by the Wizard of Oz.




Steve

I stopped by to read your reply.

I notice you tend to quote one line of conversation without taking it into the context of the entire conversation.

By taking my comments out of context, or by reading them as individual statements rather than as a whole with the entire conversation you tend to allow the point of the conversation to drift.

I believe you knew this and do this completely out of personal design. Too bad.

I find this quite frustrating and am not prepared to justify my comment - "We are at risk because there is no reason to fear us - we are weak and vulnerable by our own design." as an individual statement - it needs to be read as a whole with the conversation. I know you know that.

I have never feared calling the police, the fire fighter or the ambulance in the U.S. I have never seen the U.S. shoot someone just because he was a different religion. I have never seen the U.S. kidnap, rape and then cut the head oof of a female reporter. I do not se the U.S. providing bombers that walk into public areas and blow themselves up..

What I do see is the U.S. and it's allies attempting to come to grips with the fact that there is a group of people in the middle east that truly, truly wants us to SUBMIT to the rule of Islam - or die.

The baubles I happen to have - not many and certainly not of great value - were certainly not given to me by the Wizard of Oz. I might stress very strongly that the gentlemen who I call friends to this day - even though a couple are no longer with us - would certainly have a difficult time understanding why you speak the way you do.

An attempt to balance this by your remarks makes me realize you are not part of the solution - in fact you may be the problem - unless you do this simply as a diversion from your real life - whatever that may be.

I see now why folks get frustrated with you at times. I know I certainly am at the moment. I believe you are looking down your nose at me. I will certainly resist any opportunity to engage you in conversation in the future.

I am outa' this one.

B.C.

AMEN!
 

jigs

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stevec said:
Broke Cowboy said:
We are at risk because there is no reason to fear us - we are weak and vulnerable by our own design.

Funny, I thought we were a world power and the world leader. Manifest Destiny, and all that.

The ONLY thing that makes us different from some countries is the process of handing off power. (It isn't hereditary, but it sure is damn close when we have sons of Presidents instead of sons of Kings, isn't it?)

We are blind to our own hubris, just as the people who attack us are blind to theirs. (The rebel is always as proud and self-righteous as the authority he attacks. See King George and George Washington.)

We have a military that stops ships and does inspections in international waters. How do we get away with that? By what right do we do that? It isn't because we are weak and vulnerable! We intimidate people routinely.

People come here because they are afraid, (fleeing their petty despotic neighbors) increasing the paranoia baseline of our country, and surrendering their own country to paranoid individuals. They want to be on the side of the biggest bully, so they come here to feel "safe."

Being safe does not make us free, it makes us afraid. Courage is what makes people free.

Do not be afraid. -Pope John Paul II
Courage is knowing what not to fear - Plato

Courage does not come from a medal given by the Wizard of Oz.


as a resident in the state associated with the Land of Oz I take offense at your statements. and I am firmly planted in the idea of a pre-emptive strike that rids us of the Muslim world.
these people wmust die for the beliefs they have do not emmulate my own beliefs. Death to all Muslims.


Now, with that comment I look like a radical and terroristic threat....but all I did was reverse the things Muslims are saying. why do we tolerate their beliefs simply because it is thier religous belief ???
 

mrj

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stevec said:
Broke Cowboy said:
Steve

I stopped by to read your reply.

I notice you tend to quote one line of conversation without taking it into the context of the entire conversation.

By taking my comments out of context, or by reading them as individual statements rather than as a whole with the entire conversation you tend to allow the point of the conversation to drift.

I believe you knew this and do this completely out of personal design. Too bad.

I find this quite frustrating and am not prepared to justify my comment - "We are at risk because there is no reason to fear us - we are weak and vulnerable by our own design." as an individual statement - it needs to be read as a whole with the conversation. I know you know that.

I have never feared calling the police, the fire fighter or the ambulance in the U.S. I have never seen the U.S. shoot someone just because he was a different religion. I have never seen the U.S. kidnap, rape and then cut the head oof of a female reporter. I do not se the U.S. providing bombers that walk into public areas and blow themselves up..

What I do see is the U.S. and it's allies attempting to come to grips with the fact that there is a group of people in the middle east that truly, truly wants us to SUBMIT to the rule of Islam - or die.

The baubles I happen to have - not many and certainly not of great value - were certainly not given to me by the Wizard of Oz. I might stress very strongly that the gentlemen who I call friends to this day - even though a couple are no longer with us - would certainly have a difficult time understanding why you speak the way you do.

An attempt to balance this by your remarks makes me realize you are not part of the solution - in fact you may be the problem - unless you do this simply as a diversion from your real life - whatever that may be.

I see now why folks get frustrated with you at times. I know I certainly am at the moment. I believe you are looking down your nose at me. I will certainly resist any opportunity to engage you in conversation in the future.

I am outa' this one.

B.C.

No, I don't think it is me. You are shifting the standard between our domestic lives and our foreign policy. I don't fear calling the police either, but we have had our share of police abuse, the House Unamerican Committee, etc. Like Russia, China, and other "regimes" we have had the government exist in fear of its own people. But that fear is actually an ideological fear, like the way conservatives and liberals fear each other, or the way ranchers fear coyotes, for that matter.

In any case, my point was addressed to our foreign policy. Our penchant for creating "sheres of influence" is not new, or unique to America. It has gone on for a long time. My view is that it is a tail wagging the dog situation. It is actually the corporations that are driving the foreign policy (the military-industrial complex.) The corporations, in turn, are driven by the currency system, and are owned by the citizens, who are also driven by the currency system. And what is driving the currency system? INTEREST.

So we have a situation where two sons of the military-industrial-complex have a disagreement (Bush and Osama) one is addicted to Interest (the Bush family and the Carlyle Group,) the other (Osama) is like a younger Bush, reckless, and lives without any respect for his father. For whatever reason, both men have attracted an ideological following (as have others before them) based on the worst of critical thinking. (Ignorance is bliss.) And so while they are both utopian idealists, with dreams of remaking the world, they also think killing is required or sometimes necessary to accomplish that, when it is that single idea which makes it impossible, and Interest just perpetually feeds the flame.

In other words, the world economy is run by the Hatfields and the McCoys, and we "the little people" get drawn into their inane spats. This is the same situation that existed under monarchy, as the nobles tried to elbow their way to the top. Things have not changed much at all, but the question remains: How do they draw their power, and what drives their behavior? And the answer is the currency system.

Unfortunately, the currency system is guarded by the three-headed beast of fear, pride and greed. The love of money remains the root of all evil, and it isn't even real. It is just an intellectual agreement, from which all disagreements spring.


Do you really know any rancher that hates coyotes???? Amazing! I know quite a few ranchers who actually like them; and a few who are just determined that 'outlaw' coyotes are not going to injure or kill their calves so long as means are available to control the problem; and some who enjoy matching wits via hunting and/or ccoyote calling contests........but hate them? Sheep ranchers, maybe, but no cattle ranchers that I know.

MRJ
 

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