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CAFTA

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IS CAFTA GOOD FOR THE NORTH AMERICAN CATTLE MAN?

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  • NO

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HAY MAKER

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Word has it the house votes on "CAFTA" in two weeks,the "MNCBA"believes this is good for the north american cattle man,is it ?................good luck PS if you think not,I would urge you to call your elected representatives and express you concern
 

Sandhusker

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How can it be good for us when we throw our doors open to them in exchange for the hotel restaurant trade in those well known tourist meccas :roll: .
 

Mike

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My questions is.......... if they have free market access here at present, why would they discontinue charging those export tarriffs on beef coming into their countries? Beef shipped in duty free there will obviously strain the processors and producers there. Why would they agree to this?

People don't ordinarily give up something for nothing in exchange. I'm lost.
 

agman

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Sandhusker said:
How can it be good for us when we throw our doors open to them in exchange for the hotel restaurant trade in those well known tourist meccas :roll: .

Wrong again Sandhusker. Developing the H& R trade is just icing on the cake. We only produce 3% prime beef in the U.S. As such, even a small increase in demand has a significant price impact on that product.

The real benefit is in selling no value or low valued product and edible offal which we do not consume in the U.S. Do you think we only sell steaks to Asia and Mexico? Have you had eyeballs, tongue, tripe or rectums for dinner lately? I guess not. By the way the latter is a delicacy in Asia. I have seen them processed, measured, cut, boxed and shipped to Asia right from some plants in your great beef state of Nebraska. If I recall they were worth about $3.00-4.00 per head.

Facts are in short supply in you limited knowledge base but I will give you some knowledge so you don't make such a fool out of yourself the next time this comes up. In 2003 48% of exports to Central & SouthAmerica were comprised of variety meat exports. Japan was 19%, Korea 9%, China 49%, Mexico was 37%, Columbia was 87%. Do you see a pattern in what they consume and their per capita income? Do you see how foolish and baseless your statement was? I expect you will grab a word and try to wiggle yourself out of this one also!!!!
 

ocm

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"U.S. export growth to the CAFTA-DR region has outperformed overall U.S. exports. From 2000 to 2004, export shipments to CAFTA-DR destinations grew by almost 16 percent, compared with less than 5 percent for overall U.S. exports."

Source--official US Government website promoting CAFTA

www.ita.doc.gov/cafta/why_cafta.asp


So, why do we need CAFTA? To increase exports?

Nope--Must be another reason!
 

agman

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ocm said:
"U.S. export growth to the CAFTA-DR region has outperformed overall U.S. exports. From 2000 to 2004, export shipments to CAFTA-DR destinations grew by almost 16 percent, compared with less than 5 percent for overall U.S. exports."

Source--official US Government website promoting CAFTA

www.ita.doc.gov/cafta/why_cafta.asp


So, why do we need CAFTA? To increase exports?

Nope--Must be another reason!

By using your failed LOGIC no one should pursue Organic beef marketing since it is growing faster than non-organic. You claim you were a debate judge - where?
 

mrj

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agman said:
ocm said:
"U.S. export growth to the CAFTA-DR region has outperformed overall U.S. exports. From 2000 to 2004, export shipments to CAFTA-DR destinations grew by almost 16 percent, compared with less than 5 percent for overall U.S. exports."

Source--official US Government website promoting CAFTA

www.ita.doc.gov/cafta/why_cafta.asp


So, why do we need CAFTA? To increase exports?

Nope--Must be another reason!

By using your failed LOGIC no one should pursue Organic beef marketing since it is growing faster than non-organic. You claim you were a debate judge - where?

Agman, don't forget that logic has nothing to do with the conspiracy theories some of these guys have been posting. Just seems if the GWBush Administration if for it, someone surely will bring out all kinds of conspiracies "proving" it will hurt this group or that group or even put the UN or some other foreign outfit in control of our laws!!!

MRJ

MRJ
 

agman

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MRJ said:
agman said:
ocm said:
"U.S. export growth to the CAFTA-DR region has outperformed overall U.S. exports. From 2000 to 2004, export shipments to CAFTA-DR destinations grew by almost 16 percent, compared with less than 5 percent for overall U.S. exports."

Source--official US Government website promoting CAFTA

www.ita.doc.gov/cafta/why_cafta.asp


So, why do we need CAFTA? To increase exports?

Nope--Must be another reason!

By using your failed LOGIC no one should pursue Organic beef marketing since it is growing faster than non-organic. You claim you were a debate judge - where?

Agman, don't forget that logic has nothing to do with the conspiracy theories some of these guys have been posting. Just seems if the GWBush Administration if for it, someone surely will bring out all kinds of conspiracies "proving" it will hurt this group or that group or even put the UN or some other foreign outfit in control of our laws!!!

MRJ

MRJ

I agree with you but OCM tries to be so methodical and logical. I wanted to demonstrate how truly illogical the application of his logic was in this situation. How dare I do that to such an esteemed debate judge. I am just an old farm boy; how could I possibly know anything about logic? Take care and I appreciate all your efforts and contributions to this forum.
 

Sandhusker

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Agman, "Wrong again Sandhusker. Developing the H& R trade is just icing on the cake. We only produce 3% prime beef in the U.S. As such, even a small increase in demand has a significant price impact on that product. "

Wow, wouldn't it be great if we could ship prime to Japan? Oh, I forgot, there is no way that is possible - lack of protocol. :roll:

Agman, "The real benefit is in selling no value or low valued product and edible offal which we do not consume in the U.S. Do you think we only sell steaks to Asia and Mexico? Have you had eyeballs, tongue, tripe or rectums for dinner lately? I guess not. By the way the latter is a delicacy in Asia. I have seen them processed, measured, cut, boxed and shipped to Asia right from some plants in your great beef state of Nebraska. If I recall they were worth about $3.00-4.00 per head."

More Agman, "Facts are in short supply in you limited knowledge base but I will give you some knowledge so you don't make such a fool out of yourself the next time this comes up. In 2003 48% of exports to Central & SouthAmerica were comprised of variety meat exports. Japan was 19%, Korea 9%, China 49%, Mexico was 37%, Columbia was 87%. Do you see a pattern in what they consume and their per capita income? Do you see how foolish and baseless your statement was? I expect you will grab a word and try to wiggle yourself out of this one also!!!!"

I just checked the good 'ol NCBA and they said nothing about variety meats, but they sure crowed about sending prime cuts down there. Using the same standards you judge R-CALF with, are they lying or misinformed?

No, I haven't had any rectum lately. My only exposure to rectums is on this board. Rectums are worth 3 or 4 bucks? SH claims that packers only averaged, what $36 a head during the Picket time frame and less than $10 before? 10% of the profit from the carcass is rectum? I'd say we need to breed cattle with larger rectums - that's where the money is! Those Angus boys need a rectum EPD.

You are in favor of trading US sovereignity so we can become the beef gut kings of the Western Hemisphere? :shock: "Sorry all of you states who thought you could make your own laws, the judges from the Dominican Republic and Honduras have ruled them in violation of CAFTA. But hey, Tyson just unloaded 4 tons of bung rings to Nicaragua so it's all worth it."

I'm agast. I really am in disbelief. What is not for sale in this country in the name of trade?
 

agman

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Sandhusker said:
Agman, "Wrong again Sandhusker. Developing the H& R trade is just icing on the cake. We only produce 3% prime beef in the U.S. As such, even a small increase in demand has a significant price impact on that product. "

Wow, wouldn't it be great if we could ship prime to Japan? Oh, I forgot, there is no way that is possible - lack of protocol. :roll:

Agman, "The real benefit is in selling no value or low valued product and edible offal which we do not consume in the U.S. Do you think we only sell steaks to Asia and Mexico? Have you had eyeballs, tongue, tripe or rectums for dinner lately? I guess not. By the way the latter is a delicacy in Asia. I have seen them processed, measured, cut, boxed and shipped to Asia right from some plants in your great beef state of Nebraska. If I recall they were worth about $3.00-4.00 per head."

More Agman, "Facts are in short supply in you limited knowledge base but I will give you some knowledge so you don't make such a fool out of yourself the next time this comes up. In 2003 48% of exports to Central & SouthAmerica were comprised of variety meat exports. Japan was 19%, Korea 9%, China 49%, Mexico was 37%, Columbia was 87%. Do you see a pattern in what they consume and their per capita income? Do you see how foolish and baseless your statement was? I expect you will grab a word and try to wiggle yourself out of this one also!!!!"

I just checked the good 'ol NCBA and they said nothing about variety meats, but they sure crowed about sending prime cuts down there. Using the same standards you judge R-CALF with, are they lying or misinformed?

No, I haven't had any rectum lately. My only exposure to rectums is on this board. Rectums are worth 3 or 4 bucks? SH claims that packers only averaged, what $36 a head during the Picket time frame and less than $10 before? 10% of the profit from the carcass is rectum? I'd say we need to breed cattle with larger rectums - that's where the money is! Those Angus boys need a rectum EPD.

You are in favor of trading US sovereignity so we can become the beef gut kings of the Western Hemisphere? :shock: "Sorry all of you states who thought you could make your own laws, the judges from the Dominican Republic and Honduras have ruled them in violation of CAFTA. But hey, Tyson just unloaded 4 tons of bung rings to Nicaragua so it's all worth it."

I'm agast. I really am in disbelief. What is not for sale in this country in the name of trade?

Once again you cannot dispute the facts so you try to bring up your old failed positions. The heat must be getting to you. Wear your bonnet today while playing in your sandbox.

Sh did not claim anything about profit margins and the Pickett trial. That was from court records from the trial which he cited-facts. The number was $26 per head. You could not even get that right!!!!
 

Sandhusker

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Agman, "Once again you cannot dispute the facts so you try to bring up your old failed positions. The heat must be getting to you. Wear your bonnet today while playing in your sandbox.

Sh did not claim anything about profit margins and the Pickett trial. That was from court records from the trial which he cited-facts. The number was $26 per head. You could not even get that right!!!!

Oh, it was $26. Can't believe I forgot that after hearing it so many times. Those rectums just got more valuable.

I'm not going to argue that we could ship variety meats down there. I'm telling you that trading the ability to govern our own country so we can sell guts is a sick joke. Trading our sovereignity for any agreement is absolutely rediculous. Talk about selling one's soul for a nickel....

You supporting this notion shows a little about you - FOR SALE. How can you justify giving control of our courts to foreigners? I really want to hear your answer!
 
A

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ocm: "So, why do we need CAFTA? To increase exports?"

I don't suppose the fact that the U.S. is paying tarriffs as high as 40% while these countries import to the U.S. virtually duty free would have anything to do with it would it???????????????????

Nah, it must be some "regional integration" or "North American Union" conspiracy theory?


Sandman: "I just checked the good 'ol NCBA and they said nothing about variety meats, but they sure crowed about sending prime cuts down there. Using the same standards you judge R-CALF with, are they lying or misinformed?"

Since you didn't find anything about variety meats in the place you happened to look, NCBA lied by ommission?

BWAHAHAHAHA!

That standard would mean R-CULT is lying 24/7.



Sandman: "SH claims that packers only averaged, what $36 a head during the Picket time frame and less than $10 before? 10% of the profit from the carcass is rectum? I'd say we need to breed cattle with larger rectums - that's where the money is! Those Angus boys need a rectum EPD."

Wow, a triple shot of Sandman stupidity within the same post.

First, the $26 per head profit was from the actual Pickett vs. ibp court documents during the era of "SUPPOSED" market manipulation. I never said anything about $36 per head. Another lie from you.

Second, the value of the rectum ($3 to $4 per head) was basically the profit for the 5 major packers through the nineties ($3.88 per head).

Third, nobody said anything about rectum size did they?

If you weren't such a whiny little packer and import blamer, you'd know more about what we trade.

Has Bullard proposed his rectum marketing plan for the U.S. since he thinks we'd be better off without exports?


Sandman: "You are in favor of trading US sovereignity so we can become the beef gut kings of the Western Hemisphere?"

Sandman: "Trading our sovereignity for any agreement is absolutely rediculous."

Since NAFTA is already in place, perhaps you would like to back this allegation by citing a specific example of where we have traded away our sovereignty away with NAFTA within the beef/cattle industry.

Let's see if you can dance any better than ocm could?

This "trading away our sovereignty allegation is nothing more than "sky is falling" "fear mongering" liberal bullsh*t.

Long on rhetoric and short on facts to support it. Same-O blamers!



~SH~
 

agman

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Sandhusker said:
Agman, "Once again you cannot dispute the facts so you try to bring up your old failed positions. The heat must be getting to you. Wear your bonnet today while playing in your sandbox.

Sh did not claim anything about profit margins and the Pickett trial. That was from court records from the trial which he cited-facts. The number was $26 per head. You could not even get that right!!!!

Oh, it was $26. Can't believe I forgot that after hearing it so many times. Those rectums just got more valuable.

I'm not going to argue that we could ship variety meats down there. I'm telling you that trading the ability to govern our own country so we can sell guts is a sick joke. Trading our sovereignity for any agreement is absolutely rediculous. Talk about selling one's soul for a nickel....

You supporting this notion shows a little about you - FOR SALE. How can you justify giving control of our courts to foreigners? I really want to hear your answer!

AS if you would really know!!!
 

mrj

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Sandhusker and ocm surely can preach "Conspiracy" even if they can niether write it, justify it, nor admit it.

MRJ
 

Sandhusker

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MRJ said:
Sandhusker and ocm surely can preach "Conspiracy" even if they can niether write it, justify it, nor admit it.

MRJ

MRJ, you Agman, and SH can yell BS too, but let's see you prove them wrong.
 

Sandhusker

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agman said:
Sandhusker said:
Agman, "Once again you cannot dispute the facts so you try to bring up your old failed positions. The heat must be getting to you. Wear your bonnet today while playing in your sandbox.

Sh did not claim anything about profit margins and the Pickett trial. That was from court records from the trial which he cited-facts. The number was $26 per head. You could not even get that right!!!!

Oh, it was $26. Can't believe I forgot that after hearing it so many times. Those rectums just got more valuable.

I'm not going to argue that we could ship variety meats down there. I'm telling you that trading the ability to govern our own country so we can sell guts is a sick joke. Trading our sovereignity for any agreement is absolutely rediculous. Talk about selling one's soul for a nickel....

You supporting this notion shows a little about you - FOR SALE. How can you justify giving control of our courts to foreigners? I really want to hear your answer!

AS if you would really know!!!

"As if I would really know?" That is your answer? I want to hear you justify giving up sovereign control in the name of trade. Let's hear it. Your deciples don't think it is so.
 
A

Anonymous

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I want to hear you cite specific wording from the CAFTA-DR agreement that would lead you to believe this agreement will give up sovereign control.


DANCE SANDMAN, DANCE!!!!!

DIVERT SANDMAN, DIVERT!!!!


Ocm diverted the question and you will too because you are a mindless follower of the gospel according to R-CULT/OCM.



~SH~
 

agman

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Sandhusker said:
agman said:
Sandhusker said:
Agman, "Once again you cannot dispute the facts so you try to bring up your old failed positions. The heat must be getting to you. Wear your bonnet today while playing in your sandbox.

Sh did not claim anything about profit margins and the Pickett trial. That was from court records from the trial which he cited-facts. The number was $26 per head. You could not even get that right!!!!

Oh, it was $26. Can't believe I forgot that after hearing it so many times. Those rectums just got more valuable.

I'm not going to argue that we could ship variety meats down there. I'm telling you that trading the ability to govern our own country so we can sell guts is a sick joke. Trading our sovereignity for any agreement is absolutely rediculous. Talk about selling one's soul for a nickel....

You supporting this notion shows a little about you - FOR SALE. How can you justify giving control of our courts to foreigners? I really want to hear your answer!

AS if you would really know!!!

"As if I would really know?" That is your answer? I want to hear you justify giving up sovereign control in the name of trade. Let's hear it. Your deciples don't think it is so.

Will we give up some rights, yes. Will that throw us into turmoil or help to advance the standard of living for all trading partners? History is quite clear on this. Why don't you give me a history lesson if you think you can.
 

Sandhusker

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Agman, "Will we give up some rights, yes."

So we are giving up some "rights" - a sugar coating of the fact that we are allowing a foreign body a degree of rule on us. Isn't this a step toward the One World Government that certain individuals (and the Bible) have warned about? I mean, really, think about it. What does the "W" in WTO stand for? Governments all over the world have agreed to abide by it's rulings - a transfer of sovereignity. The WTO, to a certain degree, is already ruling the world!

I've heard these New World Order folks many times, we all have, and I've always said, "Yeah, OK, I'll believe it when I see it". I'm thinking I'm seeing it. If a new world order under one government is to be set up, what are the biggest forms of bait to be dangled in front of us? How about peace or prosperity? Any bigger than that? What are you pushing, Agman, if not prosperity?
 

agman

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Sandhusker said:
Agman, "Will we give up some rights, yes."

So we are giving up some "rights" - a sugar coating of the fact that we are allowing a foreign body a degree of rule on us. Isn't this a step toward the One World Government that certain individuals (and the Bible) have warned about? I mean, really, think about it. What does the "W" in WTO stand for? Governments all over the world have agreed to abide by it's rulings - a transfer of sovereignity. The WTO, to a certain degree, is already ruling the world!

I've heard these New World Order folks many times, we all have, and I've always said, "Yeah, OK, I'll believe it when I see it". I'm thinking I'm seeing it. If a new world order under one government is to be set up, what are the biggest forms of bait to be dangled in front of us? How about peace or prosperity? Any bigger than that? What are you pushing, Agman, if not prosperity?

Times change Sandhusker. Communications has changed, mobility has changed. Much of the world is integrating, like it or not. Specialization in production still rules whether it be in your state of NE or the world scene. I will stick with promoting trade. Not every contract will be perfect or to our liking. But we must still move forward and away from isolationism. Show me an isolationist country and I will show you a failed economy and a dirt level standard of living. Enough said on this subject.
 

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