Shaft said:
Better, but not yet rigorous. Not by a long shot. Your frioend Dr. Brown refrences four unidentified studies in general in his testimony, but only three in the specific in the paper you reference from the December 2006 CDC (this one's for you SH) journal Emerging Infectious Diseases:
"Whether humans might be more susceptible to atypical forms of BSE cannot be answered at this time. Experimentally transmitted BASE shows shorter incubation periods than BSE in at least 1 breed of cattle, bovinized transgenic mice, and Cynomolgus monkeys (12,13). In humanized transgenic mice, BASE transmitted, whereas typical BSE did not transmit (13). Paradoxically, the other major phenotype (H) showed an unusually long incubation period in bovinized transgenic mice (12)."
Please note the last sentence.
So, try again Terry. Where is the specific reference to any article that shows any sort of indication (preferably peer reviewed) that H-type BSE is potentially more virulent in humans?
I'm afraid that an affidavit written by some lawyer and signed by Dr. Brown that makes general non-attributed assertions that: "Another issue concerns evidence that atypical BSE may be more virulent for humans than typical BSE" just doesn't cut the mustard.
The good Dr. Brown cites three studies in his peer-reviwed article in Emerging Infectious Diseases that show that L-type may indeed be more virulent for humans than regular BSE, but that also suggest that H-type is not.
So, I ask again for the final time. Where is the scientific literature that indicates that H-type BSE may be more virulent to humans? Please don't trot out something some lawyer wrote as evidence this time.
shaft, you don't seem to understand there is a difference of opinion here on the terminology, and one that i dont' accept, and neither do others. and last i heard, you can do that. i just dont accept the differentiation between the h-BSE and h-BASE, l-bse, l-base, thats why in my opinion some have chose not to accept the BASE terminology, and chose atypical BSE h-l. detwiler, brown et al (you forgot dr. detwiler), of which there paper states ;
"Another issue concerns evidence that atypical BSE may be more virulent for humans than typical BSE"
and ;
The Italian cases (11 and 15
years of age) originally named bovine amyloidotic spongiform encephalopathy (BASE) were characterized by an unglycosylated protein band with a lower molecular mass (thus named L cases) and the predominance of the monoglycosylated band. In addition, immunohistochemical detection of PrPres in these cases found greater deposits in the cerebral cortex and thalamus versus the brain stem. The French cases found a higher molecular mass associated with the unglycosylated protein band and were called H cases (see figure 1).
*** The different “strains” are now called atypical BSE***
full text, skroll down to page 6 ;
http://www.usaha.org/committees/reports/2006/report-fe-2006.pdf
i never have accepted the nvCJD vs sporadic CJD terminology. at first the diagnostic criteria differentiating between the first ten adolescence with nvCJD was, kuru type amyloid plaques, long clinical period, psychological symptoms. well, now we know that some sporadic CJD victims have kuru type amyloid plaques, long clinical symptoms, and psychological mental symptoms. and this is why i dont accept this ;
> We recently reported two Italian atypical cases with a PrPSc type similar to BSE-L,
> pathologically characterized by PrP amyloid plaques
was not correct with humans, so why would it be correct from cows, when the nvCJD came from
the BSE ???
thus brings us full circle as to why i don't accept the amyloid factor in BASE.
also, i dont buy that BASE is just BSE in older cattle i.e older BSE brains.
if that is the case than sporadic CJDs are just older nvCJD brains.
also, the difference in bands and mass meaning another different strain differentiating
between the BSEs and the BASEs, i dont accept. for some reason, this has become
more complicated than it really is. and it seems like that in every turn of TSE science,
from day one, it was not to find the truth, but to take whatever science showing that
indeed sporadic CJDs are related to the BSEs, they twist the science around to where
the terminology says otherwise.like with the BASEs. i just cannot accept that, and you
cannot accept the fact i cannot accept it. i stated previously, and i will state again ;
>i think i might be partly to blame for the confusion, because sometimes i will use BASE,
>and sometimes i will use atypical BSE, h or l. it's all the same. same with the nvCJD.
>i still catch myself using that term, as opposed to the newest terminology of vCJD.
so your mission to have me expunged is fruitless.
again, i am reminded ;
2000 - 2001
The most frightening thing I have read all day is the report of Gambetti's
finding of a new strain of sporadic cjd in young people......... Dear God,
what in the name of all that is holy is that!!! If the US has different
strains of scrapie.....why???? than the UK... then would the same mechanisms
that make different strains of scrapie here make different strains of BSE...
if the patterns are different in sheep and mice for scrapie..... could not
the BSE be different in the cattle, in the mink, in the humans....... I
really think the slides or tissues and everything from these young people
with the new strain of sporadic cjd should be put up to be analyzed by many,
many experts in cjd........ bse..... scrapie Scrape the damn slide and put
it into mice..... wait..... chop up the mouse brain and and spinal
cord........ put into some more mice..... dammit amplify the thing and start
the damned research..... This is NOT rocket science... we need to use what
we know and get off our butts and move.... the whining about how long
everything takes..... well it takes a whole lot longer if you whine for a
year and then start the research!!! Not sure where I read this but it was a
recent press release or something like that: I thought I would fall out of
my chair when I read about how there was no worry about infectivity from a
histopath slide or tissues because they are preserved in formic acid, or
formalin or formaldehyde..... for God's sake........ Ask any pathologist in
the UK what the brain tissues in the formalin looks like after a year.......
it is a big fat sponge... the agent continues to eat the brain ...... you
can't make slides anymore because the agent has never stopped........ and
the old slides that are stained with Hemolysin and Eosin...... they get
holier and holier and degenerate and continue... what you looked at 6 months
ago is not there........ Gambetti better be photographing every damned thing
he is looking at.....
Okay, you need to know. You don't need to pass it on as nothing will come of
it and there is not a damned thing anyone can do about it. Don't even hint
at it as it will be denied and laughed at.......... USDA is gonna do as
little as possible until there is actually a human case in the USA of the
nvcjd........ if you want to move this thing along and shake the earth....
then we gotta get the victims families to make sure whoever is doing the
autopsy is credible, trustworthy, and a saint with the courage of Joan of
Arc........ I am not kidding!!!! so, unless we get a human death from
EXACTLY the same form with EXACTLY the same histopath lesions as seen in the
UK nvcjd........ forget any action........ it is ALL gonna be sporadic!!!
And, if there is a case....... there is gonna be every effort to link it to
international travel, international food, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. They will
go so far as to find out if a sex partner had ever traveled to the
UK/europe, etc. etc. .... It is gonna be a long, lonely, dangerous twisted
journey to the truth. They have all the cards, all the money, and are
willing to threaten and carry out those threats.... and this may be their
biggest downfall...
Thanks as always for your help. (Recently had a very startling revelation
from a rather senior person in government here.......... knocked me out of
my chair........ you must keep pushing. If I was a power person.... I would
be demanding that there be a least a million bovine tested as soon as
possible and agressively seeking this disease. The big players are coming
out of the woodwork as there is money to be made!!! In short: "FIRE AT
WILL"!!! for the very dumb.... who's "will"! " Will be the burden to bare if
there is any coverup!"
again it was said years ago and it should be taken seriously.... BSE will
NEVER be found in theUS! As for the BSE conference call... I think you did
agreat service to freedom of information and making some people feign
integrity... I find it scary to see that most of the "experts" are employed
by the federal government or are supported on the "teat" of federal funds. A
scary picture! I hope there is a confidential panel organized by the new
government to really investigate this thing.
You need to watch your back........ but keep picking at them....... like a
buzzard to the bone... you just may get to the truth!!! (You probably have
more support than you know. Too many people are afraid to show you or let
anyone else know. I have heard a few things myself... you ask the questions
that everyone else is too afraid to ask.)
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http://cjdmadcowbaseoct2007.blogspot.com/2008/02/creutzfeldt-jakob-disease-delaware.html
tss