• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Canada Complicates Things.........

Mike

Well-known member
Canada cows complicate US, Seoul beef trade: source

Reuters


Friday, July 07, 2006

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - South Korea has told the Bush administration it will not resume beef trade until U.S. slaughterhouses segregate Canadian beef products, a source familiar with the matter said on Thursday.

South Korea closed its borders to U.S. beef in December 2003 after the first U.S. case of mad cow disease was reported. The United States has since brought into effect a number of food preparation safeguards but South Korean government officials are concerned about the effects of mingling U.S. and Canadian beef.

Canada, which confirmed its sixth home-grown case of mad cow disease on Tuesday, ships cattle and beef from animals under 30 months old into the United States. It has seen twice as many cases of mad cow as the United States, which has a much larger herd.

"The Korean audit team found problems in U.S. slaughter procedures, such as the (lack of) segregation of Canadian beef," the source said. "Seoul is discussing and waiting for the U.S. to take measures on that issue. Any time the issue is solved (it will) start importing U.S. beef."

No-one from the U.S. Agriculture Department was immediately available for comment.

Last month South Korea's ambassador to the United States said inspectors from his country had discovered a few minor problems at about seven of the 37 meat packing facilities they had inspected in preparation for re-opening their market to U.S. beef. But Ambassador Lee Tae-fik maintained that South Korea was close to re-opening its market.

The Bush administration has lobbied hard to re-open markets for U.S. beef since 2003, when along with South Korea, No. 1market Japan closed its doors. Progress has been slow. Both countries agreed recently to start receiving beef imports again but differences over packaging and preparation procedures has prevented any new trade.

Mad cow disease, or bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE), is a fatal brain disease in cattle. Scientists believe people can contract a similar fatal brain disease by eating material from infected cattle.

"It is clear that Canada's BSE problem is making it more difficult for U.S. beef to get back into the markets of South Korea and Japan," said Chuck Kiker, president of U.S. ranchers group R-CALF USA.

"We need to be able to differentiate high-quality U.S. beef from Canadian beef to gain full resumption of U.S. exports."
 

Mike

Well-known member
Manitoba_Rancher said:
Start testing a little harder and you will find them..


OR...........................................................................


Simply use the correct test to begin with.
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Mike said:
Manitoba_Rancher said:
Start testing a little harder and you will find them..


OR...........................................................................


Simply use the correct test to begin with.


OR..........................................................................


Segregate and let each country's beef stand on its own merit. You Canadians could corner the Japanese market...........I forgot, you don't have a processing industry. :?
 

don

Well-known member
and when you see japan taking canadian beef you have to wonder if korea isn't just using the lack of an id system in the states as an excuse to keep american beef out. remember japan wanted candian beef segregated from american beef but now they trust the canadian system more than the american system. you are just up against the same crap with the koreans as we had to take from you. goes around, comes around.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
don said:
and when you see japan taking canadian beef you have to wonder if korea isn't just using the lack of an id system in the states as an excuse to keep american beef out. remember japan wanted candian beef segregated from american beef but now they trust the canadian system more than the american system. you are just up against the same crap with the koreans as we had to take from you. goes around, comes around.

Don, Korea is not currently taking your beef. If they won't do it thru the front door, doesn't it make sense that they wouldn't want it thru the back door as well?
 

don

Well-known member
i realize they are not taking our beef. i'm just saying that they are using the same sort of tactics to keep your beef out as japan did. now japan is taking canadian but not american. everyone on here acknowledges that politics and non-tariff trade barriers are being used to keep borders closed. as i've said before the fact that the usa has no traceback mechanism is a convenient excuse to delay trade. this is where cool is going to have to be merged with requirements for trade. i think japan is taking canadian beef now because there is a credible attempt to verify safety and origin of the canadian product. there is a fair chunk of the world that doesn't trust usda's assertions and testing. then any excuse will do to keep borders closed. do the koreans want canadian beef? they have been over here looking, too. n. american beef is pretty expensive right now so they are in no rush to start buying. i would think the usa would have much more leverage with the koreans than anybody else would.
 

Manitoba_Rancher

Well-known member
RobertMac said:
Mike said:
Manitoba_Rancher said:
Start testing a little harder and you will find them..


OR...........................................................................


Simply use the correct test to begin with.


OR..........................................................................


Segregate and let each countries beef stand on its own merit. You Canadians could corner the Japanese market...........I forgot, you don't have a processing industry. :?

Last time I checked we were only running at about 65% capacity up here, and thats even with US cattle being shipped into Ontario to be killed :eek:
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Manitoba_Rancher said:
RobertMac said:
Mike said:
OR...........................................................................


Simply use the correct test to begin with.


OR..........................................................................


Segregate and let each countries beef stand on its own merit. You Canadians could corner the Japanese market...........I forgot, you don't have a processing industry. :?

Last time I checked we were only running at about 65% capacity up here, and thats even with US cattle being shipped into Ontario to be killed :eek:

The point was that Cargill and Tyson have the processing industry in Canada...a Canadian processing industry that would be aggressively trying to export Canadian beef (as Canadian beef) is limited in scale! :eek: :shock: :eek: I'm all for Canadian producers selling their beef some place other than the USA, but you are going to have to take a route other than Cargill and Tyson. :wink:
 

mrj

Well-known member
RobertMac said:
Manitoba_Rancher said:
RobertMac said:
OR..........................................................................


Segregate and let each countries beef stand on its own merit. You Canadians could corner the Japanese market...........I forgot, you don't have a processing industry. :?

Last time I checked we were only running at about 65% capacity up here, and thats even with US cattle being shipped into Ontario to be killed :eek:

The point was that Cargill and Tyson have the processing industry in Canada...a Canadian processing industry that would be aggressively trying to export Canadian beef (as Canadian beef) is limited in scale! :eek: :shock: :eek: I'm all for Canadian producers selling their beef some place other than the USA, but you are going to have to take a route other than Cargill and Tyson. :wink:


RobertMac, are you saying that management at those companies is too stupid to separate, and verify/prove that separation, if they could export beef from either the USA or Canada to Japan?

There surely must be more to the Japanese refusing to accept US beef than meets the public eye, and I believe it is the politics in Japan holding up the works.

MRJ
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
MRJ, we're talking about Korea here, not Japan. They aren't accepting Canadian beef. It only makes sense that they wouldn't want to buy from somebody who might give them Canadian beef. I don't understand why some are looking for hidden agendas when the obvious makes perfect sense.

As far as Japan, we're getting just what we asked for. We've insulted them by "explaining" that their food-safety laws made no sense, we've bullied them by demanding they change their laws exclusively for us, we've got in their face by threatening trade sanctions - all because we refused them a little $20 test that they even offered to pay for. Now tell me, if you were Japanese, would you feel like doing business with someone who has just treated you like that? Wouldn't you also walk away at the slightest problem? You can thank the USDA and the organizations that backed them for this mess.
 

greg

Well-known member
RobertMac said:
Mike said:
Manitoba_Rancher said:
Start testing a little harder and you will find them..


OR...........................................................................


Simply use the correct test to begin with.


OR..........................................................................


Segregate and let each country's beef stand on its own merit. You Canadians could corner the Japanese market...........I forgot, you don't have a processing industry. :?
:D We do now-new plant opened yesterday-nother one on line.Look out,maybe was good thing
 

CattleRMe

Well-known member
I think we need to keep the American beef seperate. With the recent confirmation of yet another mad cow in Canada and the ones in the past it's leading to Canada beef making the consumer think mad cow I don't feel it's something we want our beef associated with.
 

Silver

Well-known member
CattleRMe said:
I think we need to keep the American beef seperate. With the recent confirmation of yet another mad cow in Canada and the ones in the past it's leading to Canada beef making the consumer think mad cow I don't feel it's something we want our beef associated with.

I know the feeling. I'm at the point now where I don't want our safe Canadian beef with all it's working safeguards being associated with beef from the obviously inferior and unsafe system in the US. I think the faster we can disassociate ourselves the better. Label it I say.
 

don

Well-known member
i guess it depends where and what you read and who you want to believe. this from an article in the western producer july 6, 2006. the same issue has an article on rachers' beef at balzac, ab which is exporting to japan now and talking to an italian importer but europe demands individual animal id (which canada can do) for certification of hormone free.


NEUDORF, Sask. - If all goes well, Natural Valley Farms' slaughter facility in the Qu'Appelle Valley just south of here will be open for business July 17.

Construction is still under way, but at least one potential offshore customer was looking for profit during recent tours and the official opening ceremony.

Brett Juong, a beef and pork importer from South Korea, said his country has a high demand for grain-fed natural beef. Because his country's border has been closed to Canadian beef since BSE was found in May 2003, filling that demand has become a challenge.

"What we have now is only from Australia and New Zealand, which is basically grass fed," Juong said. "I came here to see the opportunities for the future because the border will be open soon, at least within this year or maybe the beginning of next year for Canadian beef, so I'm looking for my supplier."

South Korea imported about 350,000 tonnes from North America before BSE, he said. Canadian exports totalled only about four percent of that. Juong said that's because Americans handled most of the trade.

But BSE has customers thinking more about their food supply and producers thinking more about their product. He estimated Canada could fill more than 10 percent of the South Korean market by 2015.

Once that border opens, he expects to buy between 40 and 60 tonnes of beef from Natural Valley.

Juong said the closed border is a political issue. He said the Canadian government should be more aggressive about getting back into the South Korean market.
 

Tommy

Well-known member
Silver...I know the feeling. I'm at the point now where I don't want our safe Canadian beef with all it's working safeguards being associated with beef from the obviously inferior and unsafe system in the US. I think the faster we can disassociate ourselves the better. Label it I say.

Go for it Silver! I'd like nothing better than to have your beef labeled and not riding on the back of the USA. Are you working towards that or just giving lip service?
 

greg

Well-known member
Test properly is true.But more importantly-how long can the U.S. eat holsteins.Yu guys can not raise em fast enough.Admit it and get over it!
Manitoba_Rancher said:
Start testing a little harder and you will find them..
:shock:
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
MRJ said:
RobertMac said:
The point was that Cargill and Tyson have the processing industry in Canada...a Canadian processing industry that would be aggressively trying to export Canadian beef (as Canadian beef) is limited in scale! :eek: :shock: :eek: I'm all for Canadian producers selling their beef some place other than the USA, but you are going to have to take a route other than Cargill and Tyson. :wink:


RobertMac, are you saying that management at those companies is too stupid to separate, and verify/prove that separation, if they could export beef from either the USA or Canada to Japan?

There surely must be more to the Japanese refusing to accept US beef than meets the public eye, and I believe it is the politics in Japan holding up the works.

MRJ

The only thing that is stupid is to assume stupidity...you may assume someone to be stupid, I don't!

Let's look at the big picture...
The USA consumes over 12.5M metric tons(carcass weight equivalent) of beef yearly. Add in Canada, 13.5M[13,500,000 metric tons]. Japans total beef consumption approaches 1.2M and the amount supplied by the USA/Canadian beef cartel would be a very small percentage of that. But, what effect would opening the Asian markets have on the price of live cattle? I think most would say that it would help maintain high prices...yes?

Now answer me this...if you were in the business of selling beef, would you want to open a very small market that would have the effect of raising your cost of procurement for a very large market??? Opening the Asian markets would be good for the producer...but what is good for the producer, is bad for the processor!!!! Do you really have to wonder why a backbone showed up in a beef shipment to Japan? Until the supply of cattle exceeds demand to the point of reducing the price of live cattle in the USA, don't look for any significant exports!

Just my opinion, but one I happen to agree with.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
RobertMac said:
MRJ said:
RobertMac said:
The point was that Cargill and Tyson have the processing industry in Canada...a Canadian processing industry that would be aggressively trying to export Canadian beef (as Canadian beef) is limited in scale! :eek: :shock: :eek: I'm all for Canadian producers selling their beef some place other than the USA, but you are going to have to take a route other than Cargill and Tyson. :wink:


RobertMac, are you saying that management at those companies is too stupid to separate, and verify/prove that separation, if they could export beef from either the USA or Canada to Japan?

There surely must be more to the Japanese refusing to accept US beef than meets the public eye, and I believe it is the politics in Japan holding up the works.

MRJ

The only thing that is stupid is to assume stupidity...you may assume someone to be stupid, I don't!

Let's look at the big picture...
The USA consumes over 12.5M metric tons(carcass weight equivalent) of beef yearly. Add in Canada, 13.5M[13,500,000 metric tons]. Japans total beef consumption approaches 1.2M and the amount supplied by the USA/Canadian beef cartel would be a very small percentage of that. But, what effect would opening the Asian markets have on the price of live cattle? I think most would say that it would help maintain high prices...yes?

Now answer me this...if you were in the business of selling beef, would you want to open a very small market that would have the effect of raising your cost of procurement for a very large market??? Opening the Asian markets would be good for the producer...but what is good for the producer, is bad for the processor!!!! Do you really have to wonder why a backbone showed up in a beef shipment to Japan? Until the supply of cattle exceeds demand to the point of reducing the price of live cattle in the USA, don't look for any significant exports!

Just my opinion, but one I happen to agree with.

RobertMac!!! Your scenario assumes that the US international beef trade policy is influenced by the large packers instead of more independent variables like sound science!!!

That is probably too much for MRJ to think about.
 

Jason

Well-known member
Your numbers don't add up right Robert. Maybe it was a typo.

Let's look at the big picture...
The USA consumes over 12.5M metric tons(carcass weight equivalent) of beef yearly. Add in Canada, 13.5M[13,500,000 metric tons]. Japans total beef consumption approaches 1.2M and the amount supplied by the USA/Canadian beef cartel would be a very small percentage of that. But, what effect would opening the Asian markets have on the price of live cattle? I think most would say that it would help maintain high prices...yes?

Now answer me this...if you were in the business of selling beef, would you want to open a very small market that would have the effect of raising your cost of procurement for a very large market??? Opening the Asian markets would be good for the producer...but what is good for the producer, is bad for the processor!!!! Do you really have to wonder why a backbone showed up in a beef shipment to Japan? Until the supply of cattle exceeds demand to the point of reducing the price of live cattle in the USA, don't look for any significant exports!

For the US to consume 12.5 MMT , that's about 40 pounds per person per year. Pretty close, but the US only produces 11.46 MMT and traditionally exports 10% of that.

Canada only produces 1.07 MMT as total production. We eat about 51 pounds per person or about 0.7 MMT

Total world exports are only 7.1 MMT and Japan has to import nearly all their consumption, so 1.2 MMT is significant in that light.

Put it in a different light, the US consumes 10 times what Japan does, but Japan consumes more than Canada's entire production.

Since Japan is a market that yields better prices for beef than domestic markets, how does it follow that processors don't want the market opened? Even if it means higher prices for cattle, it means more dollars in revenue, good for producers and processors.
 
Top