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Canada to Ban Handguns

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Mike

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Liberals to ban handguns (Canada)
National Post ^ | December 08, 2005 | Anne Dawson

Posted on 12/09/2005 7:07:59 AM PST by neverdem

CanWest News Service

Plan makes exceptions for police, collectors

MONTREAL - Paul Martin will today propose a ban on most handguns in Canada, CanWest News Service has learned.

Sources say the Prime Minister will make the election campaign announcement this morning in Toronto, where deaths due to gun violence have jumped significantly this year.

There will be some exemptions, including maintaining the right for police to carry handguns. The Prime Minister is also expected to announce a significant increase in resources for police to deal with the ban.

The Liberals say the thinking behind this crime strategy is that if no one is allowed to have a handgun in Canada, policing authorities will be in a better position to act on anyone who has a handgun or attempts to transport or sell a handgun.

The announcement will include the banning of all registered handguns in Canada. However, sources say special arrangements will be made for gun collectors.

This crime prevention strategy will be announced as a key plank in the Liberal election campaign today.

Yesterday, the Prime Minister focused on the environment, telling a UN conference in Montreal that human behaviour needs to be changed to combat climate change.

The Conservatives used a stop in Saint John, N.B., to roll out another campaign promise. Leader Stephen Harper targeted small and medium-sized businesses, announcing he would cut their taxes.

He noted that small businesses employ six out of 10 Canadian workers and make up half of the country's economic engine.

NDP leader Jack Layton outlined his plans for national unity yesterday, telling a Montreal audience he has changed positions on an 18-month-old suggestion that the Clarity Act should be scrapped.

"We would not repeal the Clarity Act," Mr. Layton said yesterday "It follows directly from the principles laid out by the Supreme Court, and has been broadly accepted across the spectrum as a basis for proceeding."

The legislation specifies that any vote on Quebec sovereignty must be based on a clear question and obtain a clear majority. The power to decide whether or not those conditions have been met rests with the federal government.

None of the parties has unveiled initiatives on violent crime so far in in the two-week-old election campaign, so the proposal to ban handguns would mark the first time the Liberals set the agenda on a particular issue.

The handgun ban would seem to have similarities with the national firearms registry, a Liberal initiative under former Prime Minister Jean Chretien. The firearms registry is supported by residents and police forces in urban centres, where illegal weapons are a serious concern, but it has been harshly criticized in rural areas and other places where recreational gun use is common. Critics charge that forcing law-abiding citizens to register their hunting rifles does little to remove illegal handguns from urban streets.

And while sources say the Liberals will present the handgun ban as an attempt to stifle the supply of handguns in Canada -- particularly guns brought into the country illegally and those sold on the black market -- critics will say the guns used in most violent crimes are already illegal, so a ban would do little.

Handgun violence has been a particular issue in Toronto this year. Police say downtown and suburban gangs involved in the drug trade are responsible for most of the gun-related deaths, which peaked during the summer when at least one person was shot and killed most weekends. Of Toronto's 70 homicides in 2005, 48 have been committed with guns.
 

mp.freelance

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stevec said:
Fear is spreading in Canada.

More people are violent, so the response is to sanction more State control. Everybody runs to the State when they are afraid.

Those who fear having their guns being taken away will resist. They have guns because they are already afraid, so this just increases their level of fear.

Fear feeds on fear, until eventually the whole society is paranoid, and the people are victims of the State they thought was going to protect them.

An unarmed man walks into a sea of battle and says "peace." The people on both sides call him crazy.

It isn't just Liberals that are pro-gun control, Conservatives are pro-State, too. (The other side of the equation.) You can see that in the exemptions offered. Only the crazy "libertarians" realize the real problem: The problem isn't that criminals have guns, the problem is that the State has guns. People are enslaved by the fear of death, and so are willing to be slaves to the State and/or seeking comfort in a piece of iron.

If they stay on this course, soon they will have a Patriot Act, too. There is usually a conservative available to make a stupid liberal idea worse.

Some of the stuff you say I agree with stevec, but you're being unrealistic. There's a nobility to the man who walks into battle unarmed and says "peace." Nonetheless, that man's going to get his ass shot, nobility or not. What you're talking about is changing the way human beings are rigged, and I don't think a set of ideas can ever accomplish that. Out only hope is trial and error. The paths this leads us down are often horrific, but I don't think God intended to make it easy on us, eh?
 

Jinglebob

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If a person is armed, they don't need any government to protect them against fellow citizens.

I carry a handgun as a tool. It doesn't make me feel stronger or gentler or anything. If something needs to be killed a handgun is an efficient tool.

Try arguing with someone who is bigger, meaner and tougher than you. If you have a weapon that they fear, you might be able to get them to understand your point of view. If not, at least you can keep them from killing you.
 

Steve

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Critics charge that forcing law-abiding citizens to register their hunting rifles does little to remove illegal handguns from urban streets.

But it makes it easier for the liberals to go get them when they ban them.....

Why make more laws taking more freedom from law abiding citizens when the real failure is in not enforcing existing laws and allowing criminals to run panpant in the streets,
 

Jinglebob

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Steve said:
Critics charge that forcing law-abiding citizens to register their hunting rifles does little to remove illegal handguns from urban streets.

But it makes it easier for the liberals to go get them when they ban them.....

Why make more laws taking more freedom from law abiding citizens when the real failure is in not enforcing existing laws and allowing criminals to run panpant in the streets,

Yup. It's a lot easier to win the argument if you are the only one armed. Might not be the way it SHOULD be, but sure is the way it really is.
 

Big Muddy rancher

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The real kicker is that hand guns have been registered in Canada since 1938. They still don't have a handle on the criminals that have them and they won't with this new law. When guns are outlawed, only Outlaws will have guns.
 

TimH

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Chalk this "handgun ban" thing up to the liberals pandering to the voters in the urban east. End of story.
Martin and his crew are running scared. The liberals have been caught lieing and stealing so many times, over the past 12 years that they have been in power, that even the urban eastern voters ,who elected the SOB's, are starting to wake up. Martin realizes that his only hope is to tell the east whatever they want to hear(as usual).
It has been one scandal after another with these clowns for far too long.
I only hope that the voters in the east finally grab a brain and stop re-electing these A-holes! :mad:
 

Jinglebob

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stevec said:
Jinglebob said:
If a person is armed, they don't need any government to protect them against fellow citizens.

I carry a handgun as a tool. It doesn't make me feel stronger or gentler or anything. If something needs to be killed a handgun is an efficient tool.

Try arguing with someone who is bigger, meaner and tougher than you. If you have a weapon that they fear, you might be able to get them to understand your point of view. If not, at least you can keep them from killing you.

I agree. The liberals are confused. In one breath they ask for more community policing, and in the next they are complaining about police brutality. (Doublethink)

But the conservatives are confused too, as the re-election of Bush clearly demonstrates. Conservatives are always wanting big government expenditures on defense, but then they talk about "small government."

The reason we have economic problems (poverty, etc) is not because people don't work hard, but because the defense budget makes everyone poor. However, some people are getting very rich on that defense budget, too. (Universities, DOD contractors, suppliers to the military-industrial complex.) Even the name Uncle Sam cam from shipping provisions to the government. Sell to the government is a gravy job. Nobody cares if it is done right, priced fair, etc. Everybody involved takes the check and turns a blind eye.

But what do criminals want? Besides crimes of passion and drunkedness, many of them have to do with stealing in desperation.

The bottom line is that the government is already more powerful than the people. The right to bear arms, from the political view of protecting us from tyranny, has already come and gone. The people are overpowered by the government, and gun manufacturers have their sites on selling to the government. If that doesn't work, then they encourage people to be afraid, because fear is good for their business.

Take a look at this ad selling the Tommy Gun to people in the country. Has anyone here ever had the experience of shooting like that? I doubt it.

http://www.behappyandfree.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=35&Itemid=40

A gun-control ban heats up the partisan rhetoric on both sides, and the bigger problems get ignored.

A great essay to read is War is a Rackett by General Smedley Butler. He predicted the attack on Pearl Harbor in his essay. (Yet FDR described it as a unprovoked surprise attack.) It really shows how when it comes to weapons we have a case of the tail wagging the dog. The general admits that he was clueless until he retired. (I keep waiting for Wesley Clark to wake up.) Ike's warning about the military-industrial complex is an echo of what Butler said 25 years earlier. WWII was avoidable. We had a lot to do with starting it.

War is a Racket: http://www.behappyandfree.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=42

Guns, and their use by government, is a pretty basic way of understanding society. Personal liberty is taken by the government, but the government cannot "give" it. We give liberty to each other in how we treat one another.

Just like the colonists resisted paying for their own supression by the Redcoats, we should be making the same complaint today. Government installations exist to protect other government installations. The needs of the people are an afterthought. (see New Orleans) Neither the liberals nor the conservatives have framed the issue in a way that makes sense.

You seem to have the questions, whats the answer?
 
A

Anonymous

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stevec- your Tommy gun ad dates from World War I times....

And if police and gangsters hadn't shown how well it worked during the 20's it may not have made it into active production for the military- where it proved to be an excellent weapon- both in the jungles of the Pacific and in Europe...Captured Germans claimed they feared the Tommy gun and the potent .45 ACP cartridge more than any other US weapon......

Guns don't kill- People kill......
 

Steve

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The reason we have economic problems (poverty, etc) is not because people don't work hard, but because the defense budget makes everyone poor.

first it is an accusation you could never prove, as it is a liberal biased position that is drummed into your head.......must be the air up there in Ma..

Kennedy (owner of Major defence stock) has zero employees in defence?

yet iF he votes for a bill thousands keep thier jobs, who wins Kennedy, and all the voteres and employees so he is still in office......

yet the other half, poverty is not brought on from the availability of good jobs.......

poor people come in tow classes if you may, working poor, and non-working poor,

the goverment does damn little for the working poor,,,and even the liberals would be hard pressed to show how the goverment has helped lift the working poor to a better life,,,,

then you have the non working poor, there is help for those that lost thier jobs, unemployment insurance, ect....

but in the same line there is better help for those who don't want to work..
welfare, medicare, SSI, Rental assistance, TANF,,, in New Jeresy being on the cronic welfare roles gets you about $23,000 to $29,000, so why work???

Ther is some things that should be religated to the feds, But most goverment should go back to the States hands....
 

greg

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The ONLY reason OUR CANADIAN government is doing this now is because we're in the middle of an election,and the govering liberals are grabbing at any straw to get the eastern liberal vote that been running our country for years.HOPEFULLY the fact billions of dollars went missing while liberals in power,may have enough effect to get the city lovin eastern liberals to take time to find thier brains and vote sencibly this TIME.Don't really believe it will happen but have heard of miracles
 

Denny

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Jinglebob said:
If a person is armed, they don't need any government to protect them against fellow citizens.

I carry a handgun as a tool. It doesn't make me feel stronger or gentler or anything. If something needs to be killed a handgun is an efficient tool.

Try arguing with someone who is bigger, meaner and tougher than you. If you have a weapon that they fear, you might be able to get them to understand your point of view. If not, at least you can keep them from killing you.

Atool for what ya going to pound nails with it a tool now thats funny.

If I need a gun to win an arguement I let the other party win it's the

John Wayne mentality that causes these laws.
 

Mike

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Denny said:
Jinglebob said:
If a person is armed, they don't need any government to protect them against fellow citizens.

I carry a handgun as a tool. It doesn't make me feel stronger or gentler or anything. If something needs to be killed a handgun is an efficient tool.

Try arguing with someone who is bigger, meaner and tougher than you. If you have a weapon that they fear, you might be able to get them to understand your point of view. If not, at least you can keep them from killing you.

Atool for what ya going to pound nails with it a tool now thats funny.

If I need a gun to win an arguement I let the other party win it's the

John Wayne mentality that causes these laws.

Denny, I have two very close friends and neighbors who lost arguments in the past two months to another "Crackhead/Methhead". Each for less than $20. One is still in the hospital with his left shoulder totally screwed up, and the other will never be the same either.

You might be safe in your neighborhood, but not in the majority. This mentality of crooks feed off the "unprotected" and will NOT attempt to rob people who might have access to a gun.

I promise you......you do not want to argue with these scums....you will lose everytime. Your family will lose too.

I'm not in the city either. In fact, my sheriff just had a meeting with the folks in my area and admitted that those in the rural areas are at more of a risk because the crooks know the closest law enforcement officer could be as far as 20 miles away.

John Wayne Mentality my ass.
 

MsSage

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John Wayne mentality that causes these laws.
No the mentality that causes these laws is the self righouse we know whats good for you.
You need to look at how many deaths are due to registered gun and the number of guns unregistered. It is not the lawabiding citizens who goes out and shoots someone for thier shoes.
When peopel realize its the crimanal NOT the gun or the lawabiding citizen who pose a threat.
During election years they will use every topic that causes an uproar. Gun control is a hot topic....peopel in the city tired of the thugs shooting innoccent people BUT they fail to see its the CRIMINAL NOT the gun.[/quote]
 

greg

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Right you are Sage! In Canada our guns are registered yet shootings STILL happening! Apparently this is happening in Toronto alot....where the largest Liberal population is, so to get thier vote lets BAN these registered guns!! Silly AND an election ploy.... and they wonder why the west votes mostly conservative.Problam is even before they get to the west votes the east has won.
 

Steve

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What was so important about the $20 dollars?

If you give them the twenty, chances are they will still attempt to hurt or kill you,,,,but guaranteed they will attempt to get another $20 from some one else real soon,,,,,,,and either hurt or kill them. ...so it is not so much about $20 dollors as it is about our life, liberty and ability to have happiness......free from a scumbag taking what we have worked for..........

Just another time you seem to be defending the dregs who do not want to work over those that are working...........why?

As for farm subsidies, and food stamps, I am all for helping a person that is working towards a better future, and am against a person sitting on thier ass waiting for a handout........
 

Denny

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I am not for gun ban's I am agaist vocal statement's that State

(I use a gun as a tool in arguement's) to me statement's like that do more harm than good.Wonder how many people are dead cause someone brought there tool along.Insecure people need gun's to feel secure...
 

Jinglebob

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Denny said:
I am not for gun ban's I am agaist vocal statement's that State

(I use a gun as a tool in arguement's) to me statement's like that do more harm than good.Wonder how many people are dead cause someone brought there tool along.Insecure people need gun's to feel secure...
You got any guns Denny? :wink:
 

Mike

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Sometimes insecurity PAYS!!!!!!!!!!

'Do not come in! I have a gun! Leave!'
Self-defense training paid off for one woman alone in a Florida hotel room

Tom Stienstra

Monday, December 12, 2005


Tom Stienstra
Archive
'Do not come in! I have a gun! Leave!' - Self-defense training p...
12/12/2005
In threatening situations, self-defense expert Il Ling New said that there is a little voice in the back of most people's heads that blares, "Warning! Warning! You are in danger!"

Kat Needham, a biotechnology researcher in the Bay Area with a degree with molecular biology, said she was getting the message loud and clear.

"I used to go into work by myself in South San Francisco and I'd be there late at night, on the weekends or very early, and nobody friendly would be around for hours," Needham said. "Sometimes it would be eerie and scary along the railroad tracks. Being there by myself, I wanted to make sure I could protect myself."

That led her to Gunsite, where she met New. Needham took a handgun course for self-protection, and later returned to take several other courses.

"It's rare to find a woman who has a mind-set like that," Needham said. "The two of us are on the same wavelength. We talk about situations about self-defense all the time. Watching Il Ling instructing, it gives me more confidence in myself."

In class, New lectured that you have no control of the time or place when you might face a surprise showdown. In Needham's case, it came on a business trip to Florida, where she had checked into a hotel room, chained the door and set her pistol on the bedside.

"I was relaxing for a moment when somebody suddenly opened the door," Needham said. "They were coming into the room. The chain stopped them. I grabbed my pistol and racked a round so they could hear the action and know I had a gun."

Needham remembers shouting: "Stop! Do not come in! Who are you?"

The guy yelled back, deep and menacing, 'I'm coming in,' Needham recalled.

"Do not come in!" she shouted back. "I have a gun! Leave!"

The intruder wedged his arm past the door and wrestled to try to unhook the safety chain. The arm was "huge and hairy and it scared me," Needham said.

Her training kicked in. She positioned herself around a corner, pointing her .45 Colt semi-automatic pistol at point-blank range and again shouted a warning: "Do not come in. I have a gun. If you come in, I will shoot you."

For the intruder, logic apparently set in -- and the man ran off down the hall. Needham said hotel security did not find him. "Nobody knew anything."

Later, she reviewed the episode with New. "The first thing she asked me was, 'Did he follow you to the room?'

"I wasn't sure," Needham said. "I was in a place I'd never been before. I was by myself. I didn't know what to expect. If he had come in, I would have been in fear of my life, and I would have shot him.

"If I hadn't had the training, I wouldn't have had the confidence to know I could take care of myself."
 

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