• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Canada: Who pays for Medicare, and How much?

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Thought this was an interesting article. And it brings up some questions.

If the taxes were lowered for the higher income earners, and private medical clinics were available in Canada, would it take the pressure (waiting times, financial, etc) off the public system?

What would the financial breakeven point be.

The true cost of Medicare for individuals and families in Canada is often misunderstood, with many thinking health care is either free or covered by what we pay for our respective provincial health insurance coverage. It is critically important, however, that Canadians understand the true cost of Medicare. Armed with a more meaningful estimate, Canadians will be able to better assess whether or not they are receiving value for their health care dollars.

snip...

A more informative measure of the cost of our health care system is health expenditures per person. The $115 billion presented above works out to approximately $3,498 per Canadian. This would be the cost of the public health care insurance plan if every Canadian resident paid an equal share. But some Canadians are children and dependents and thus are not taxpayers, and Canadians certainly do not pay equal amounts.

So how much do we really pay as individuals and families for our Medicare system?

In order to determine a more precise estimate of the cost of public health care insurance for the average Canadian family in 2008, we must determine how much an average family is expected to contribute in taxes to all three levels of government. The percentage of the family's total tax bill that pays for public health insurance is then assumed to match the share of total government tax revenues (including natural resource revenues) dedicated to health care (22.6 per cent in 2007/2008).

Breaking down the Canadian population into 10 income groups (income figures are pre-tax) makes it possible to show what families from various income brackets will pay for public health care insurance in 2008:

* Average cash income of $11,309; $389 paid for public health care insurance.

* Average cash income of $24,271; $1,076 paid.

* Average cash income of $32,866; $2,214 paid.

* Average cash income of $41,637; $3,449 paid.

* Average cash income of $51,298; $4,862 paid.

* Average cash income of $64,415; $6,245 paid.

* Average cash income of $78,430; $7,750 paid.

* Average cash income of $96,217; $9,873 paid.

* Average cash income of $122,321; $12,877 paid.

* Average cash income of $232,739; $29,575 paid for public health care insurance.

Looking by common family types, this calculation finds that the estimated average payment for public health care insurance in 2008 was:

* $9,572 for the average two-adult family;

* $9,855 for the average two-adult, one-child family;

* $10,191 for the average two-adult, two-child family; and

* $3,484 for the average unattached (single) individual.

It is critical to recognize that these estimates count only the direct costs of Medicare. They do not count administrative costs subsumed by other government departments that support health care through activities such as tax collection, or other privately borne costs related to the financing and operation of Medicare, such as tax compliance, or the private burden of waiting for health care.

Nadeem Esmail is the Fraser Institute's Director of Health System Performance Studies.

http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/opinion/article/777863
 

hillsdown

Well-known member
In a real world this would work, but when you have greed and apathy, it will never work.

Because I do not make a million dollars a year and am not on TV or the big screen ??? I should not receive top care. What I do in life is not appreciated or needed as someone rich and famous.. :?

Change this and we will have proper health care.. :wink:
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
Wellall I know is I'm receiving excellant care during this cancer deal. I'll keep you posted on how it's going trying to collect on disability insurance that I've paid a premiumon for 27 years.I shudder at the thought of entrusting my health and my families to a run for PROFIT health insurance provider.Now you can commence with the slander and labelling.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
FE_PR_072809_CanadianWaitTimes2008_.jpg
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Island MRIs to be cut by 20 per cent

Health authority plans to do 4,400 fewer scans to ease cash shortfall

By Lindsay Kines and Richard Watts, Times ColonistSeptember 4, 2009

MRI scans that are used to detect tumours, fractures and other ailments will be cut by 20 per cent this year, the Vancouver Island Health Authority has confirmed.

The health authority plans to do 4,400 fewer of the magnetic resonance imaging scans to help cover a $45-million budget shortfall, figures released yesterday show.

The cuts likely mean patients will wait in pain even longer for treatment and surgery -- and already they are waiting twice as long as last year.

VIHA spokeswoman Shannon Marshall said patients are being booked for March, six months away, for elective MRI scans. Last year, wait times for MRI scans were only three months.

Marshall said emergency scans will be performed immediately.

http://www.timescolonist.com/health/Island+MRIs+cent/1961333/story.html
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Northern Rancher said:
Wellall I know is I'm receiving excellant care during this cancer deal. I'll keep you posted on how it's going trying to collect on disability insurance that I've paid a premiumon for 27 years.I shudder at the thought of entrusting my health and my families to a run for PROFIT health insurance provider.Now you can commence with the slander and labelling.

I wouldn't shudder at it, Americans entrust themselves to this very thing and they have a higher survival rate with Cancer than Canadians do. So just maybe your future would have a brighter light with a for profit system at least that's what the facts show! Either way I am glad you are having success with your treatment!
 

Silver

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Northern Rancher said:
Wellall I know is I'm receiving excellant care during this cancer deal. I'll keep you posted on how it's going trying to collect on disability insurance that I've paid a premiumon for 27 years.I shudder at the thought of entrusting my health and my families to a run for PROFIT health insurance provider.Now you can commence with the slander and labelling.

I wouldn't shudder at it, Americans entrust themselves to this very thing and they have a higher survival rate with Cancer than Canadians do. So just maybe your future would have a brighter light with a for profit system at least that's what the facts show! Either way I am glad you are having success with your treatment!

You may want to get a real good understanding of what 'cancer survival rates' mean and how they are derived before you put too much stock in them.
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
You got that right Silver-private insurance either cuts services or raises premiums to ensure a profit-like I've said before I wouldn't trsade health care systems for a bit.i find Americans in conversation to be more fearful of their futures health and financially wise than Canadians are-kind of food for thought I think.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Northern Rancher said:
You got that right Silver-private insurance either cuts services or raises premiums to ensure a profit-like I've said before I wouldn't trsade health care systems for a bit.i find Americans in conversation to be more fearful of their futures health and financially wise than Canadians are-kind of food for thought I think.

Here is some food for thought also

Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:16 PM

As government revenues plunge, B.C. taxpayers should brace themselves for a "very, very difficult" budget in two weeks, Finance Minister Colin Hansen is warning.

The government is desperately trying to maintain key services, but a $3-billion shortfall is making that a real challenge, Hansen said.


"We are desperately trying to maintain the critical services in health care and education and the social services. So it's definitely been a challenging summer," the finance minister said Wednesday.


In the last three months, British Columbia has faced a financial whipsaw, he said, including:


Hansen didn't say how he plans to address the shortfall in two weeks when he introduces the first provincial budget since the government was re-elected in May, but it could translate into a larger deficit, higher taxes or more program cuts.
BC Health authority plans to do 4,400 fewer MRI scans to ease cash shortfall
Dix said a Vancouver Coastal Health Authority document shows it is considering chopping more than 6,000 surgeries in an effort to make up for a dramatic budgetary shortfall that could reach $200 million.
Alberta Health Services Board faces $1.1-billion shortfall
Provided by: The Canadian Press
Written by: Bill Graveland, THE CANADIAN PRESS
Jun. 30, 2009

CALGARY - Alberta's health-care board continues to bleed red ink and faces a $1.1-billion budget shortfall this fiscal year.

And as the board passed its $10.8-billion budget Tuesday - which includes a 13 per cent increase - its CEO openly questioned if taxpayers are getting value for their money.
And what is Alberta planning to do about their shortfall
CALGARY - The Alberta health superboard's plan to cut staff by enticing nurses and other professionals into early retirement will likely do the opposite of the board's goal to lower wait times and bolster patient care, medical groups and observers said Wednesday.

Trying to further ease the system's $1.3-billion deficit, Alberta Health Services CEO Stephen Duckett announced the retirement packages along with a plan to reduce overall costs by three per cent, and an order for long-term care facilities and other suppliers to cut by that same amount by December.

Duckett insisted those staff and cost cuts can be achieved at the same time as his goals to substantially cut wait times.

He offered a proverb as his explanation.

"Working smarter, rather than working harder. And that's what we've got to do."

His ambitious statements were dismissed by other health-care players as overly optimistic at best, or misleading.

"It's just going to be more work for those people who are still there," said Dr. Linda Slocombe, president of the Calgary and Area Physicians' Association.

"The complexity and the number of patients are not going down, but it appears the number of staff is . . . I think it's going to increase wait times and general stress levels, so we may see more people quitting."


In Sask we have hospital closures and bed closures in the hospitals that stay open. Hospitals refusing to deliver babies and many other restrictions. We have some of the longest waiting list in Canada according to the Fraser Institute.


Please explain what the difference is between what we have Ie cuts in service and tax hikes and Private insurance cuts in service and premium increases?
 

hillsdown

Well-known member
Tam something needs to be done with our system ,but what is the best answer. My FIL who lives in the Netherlands thinks that we have a better system than theirs. Where you pay a premium every month and everything is covered from dental to meds to optical. He pays 300 Euros every three months. Wait times are minimal.

We have only medical coverage here no optical, dental or meds, that you must have private insurance for and half the time they tell you you are not covered.

We already have a two tiered system , I am just tired of paying for insurance and them saying "that is not covered so you are SOL."

Fix the private insurance and the public plans and we will have a perfect system.

NR sounds like you are getting top notch care, which is what I hear more to be the norm than not.

ONE other thing is these people that feel they need to go to the doctor for a hang nail or every time their kids get the sniffles should have to pay the bill themselves. The doctors that make you come in for just a reg prescription (not BP or something the like) every five months for a 2 minute visit where they just print out the refill don;t even take your BP, need to lose their license. What happened to getting a 1 yr prescription and over the phone as well.
 

Tam

Well-known member
hillsdown said:
Tam something needs to be done with our system ,but what is the best answer. My FIL who lives in the Netherlands thinks that we have a better system than theirs. Where you pay a premium every month and everything is covered from dental to meds to optical. He pays 300 Euros every three months. Wait times are minimal.

We have only medical coverage here no optical, dental or meds, that you must have private insurance for and half the time they tell you you are not covered.

We already have a two tiered system , I am just tired of paying for insurance and them saying "that is not covered so you are SOL."

Fix the private insurance and the public plans and we will have a perfect system.

NR sounds like you are getting top notch care, which is what I hear more to be the norm than not.

ONE other thing is these people that feel they need to go to the doctor for a hang nail or every time their kids get the sniffles should have to pay the bill themselves. The doctors that make you come in for just a reg prescription (not BP or something the like) every five months for a 2 minute visit where they just print out the refill don;t even take your BP, need to lose their license. What happened to getting a 1 yr prescription and over the phone as well.

I believe some of these Insurance companies need to be taken to the wood shed. Insurance reform is a must in just about any system. When they are allowed to make up the rules after the fact you can guarantee that they will be revised to their advantage. That is where the government needs to step in and pass some regulations on them that would stop the refusal of coverage. I, like most everyone else, can't stand paying for something only to find out that when it is needed the coverage is no good or not available, that goes for Insurance companies AND Government. I pay my taxes and expect to get treatment when I need it not in 6 months, a year or maybe never while I'm forced to live on pain killers that cause further problems with my health.

I'm with you on the hangnail sniffles gang. If there was a user fee I doubt it would stop anyone that really needed to see the Doctor but it would stop those that are wasting the Doctors time on frivolous visits. And if the Doctors knew part of their fee was coming from their patients then maybe they would think twice about the 2 min. office visit to refill a prescription. As long as they (doctors and patients) know it all comes from one source all bets are off.
 
Top