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HAY MAKER

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U.S. cattle producers trying to reclose border to beef
By JOHN COTTER

Saturday, September 10, 2005 Page A15

Canadian Press




A group representing 18,000 U.S. cattle producers has petitioned a U.S. court for a rehearing in a bid to close the border again to Canadian beef.

R-CALF USA has requested that a group of 11 judges who sit on the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals review a ruling made by a three-judge panel on July 14 that overturned a temporary ban on young Canadian cattle imports.

"The three-judge panel . . . missed or misunderstood numerous key aspects of this case," Bill Bullard, chief executive officer of R-CALF, said from Billings, Mont.

"We are dealing with a disease that has devastated the cattle industries in other countries and that has already cost the U.S. cattle industry billions of dollars in lost beef exports."

Since trade in live cattle resumed on July 18, Canadian producers have shipped more than 89,000 animals under 30 months of age to the U.S.

While there is no guarantee the appeals court will grant the rehearing, a favourable ruling for R-CALF would again cast a pall of uncertainty over the Canadian beef industry.

It has already suffered $7-billion in losses since a cow with bovine spongiform encephalitis -- BSE or mad cow disease -- was found in Alberta in May of 2003.

Stan Eby, president of the Canadian Cattlemen's Association, urged producers not to worry too much about R-CALF's latest move.

"Our legal counsel have told us that rehearings are very rarely granted," Mr. Eby said yesterday from his farm in Kincardine, Ont.

"My sense is there will not be a rehearing and trade will continue. But we have to be watching all the time."

Last March, District Court Judge Richard Cebull in Montana ruled that the U.S. Department of Agriculture was wrong to allow trade in live Canadian cattle to resume.

He said USDA import rules did not adequately protect American consumers and herds from BSE.

A three-judge appeal court panel overturned that ruling on July 14 saying Judge Cebull should have respected the expertise of the USDA about the risks of Canadian beef.

In its petition for review filed Thursday, R-CALF contends the panel ruling does not reflect USDA policy that prohibiting imports is the most important way to prevent the introduction and spread of BSE.

Heather Smith, a spokeswoman with Agriculture Canada, said the federal government does not believe the U.S. Court of Appeals ruling will be overturned.

"The border remains open and cattle continue to go across the border into the United States," Ms. Smith said from Ottawa.

"It is largely procedural manoeuvring by R-CALF."

Russell Frye, R-CALF's chief lawyer, said if the appeal court agrees to review the case, and then rules in their favour, the border would close again to live Canadian beef.

"Probably the effect would be [that] the preliminary injunction that had kept the USDA rule from coming into effect in March would be reinstated," Mr. Frye said.

If that happens, he said R-CALF's next step would be to proceed with an application before Judge Cebull for a ban on all Canadian beef.

Mr. Eby said R-CALF's legal manoeuvres will have no effect on Canada's push for a complete resumption of the beef trade with the U.S.

On Tuesday, Mr. Eby is to meet with USDA officials in Washington to lobby for trade to resume in live cattle over 30 months of age and Canadian breeding stock.

A proposal for rules that would govern such trade could be released by the U.S. before the end of the year.

"This will be another concerted effort to push this matter forward," he said. "Until we have full trade in all classes of livestock and beef products we will not rest easy."

The continued ban has cost Canada's beef and dairy breeding industry more than $500-million in lost sales and hurt the industry's ability to improve the genetics of beef herds.

It is estimated there more than six million beef and dairy cattle in Canadian herds that are over 30 months of age.
 

Tam

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If that happens, he said R-CALF's next step would be to proceed with an application before Judge Cebull for a ban on all Canadian beef.

Just how do you R-CALFers think you are going to get your borders open to the Asian markets and keep your border to Mexico open if you get Canadian UTM beef ban because it is a genuine risk of death. Or have you forgotten that the US HAS BSE IN THEIR NATIVE HERD. If the courts agree to close the border to all beef then what will that be telling your consumers Haymaker. THAT ALL US BEEF IS ALSO UNSAFE FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. You guys are so stupid you would cut your own nose off to spite your face. :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

Sandhusker

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Tam said:
If that happens, he said R-CALF's next step would be to proceed with an application before Judge Cebull for a ban on all Canadian beef.

Just how do you R-CALFers think you are going to get your borders open to the Asian markets and keep your border to Mexico open if you get Canadian UTM beef ban because it is a genuine risk of death. Or have you forgotten that the US HAS BSE IN THEIR NATIVE HERD. If the courts agree to close the border to all beef then what will that be telling your consumers Haymaker. THAT ALL US BEEF IS ALSO UNSAFE FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. You guys are so stupid you would cut your own nose off to spite your face. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Japan and Korea are going to do whatever they want regardless of what the US does with Canada. They have even said as much. I can't believe you brought that up again.

Closing our borders to Canada will tell our consumers that the suppliers of the raw product (ranchers) are concerned enough about the safety of beef they will do what it takes to make the USDA do their job - that of protecting the US food supply. To allow the USDA the habit of putting the entire industry at risk in the name of trade would be the foolish course of action/inaction.
 
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Tam said:
If that happens, he said R-CALF's next step would be to proceed with an application before Judge Cebull for a ban on all Canadian beef.

Just how do you R-CALFers think you are going to get your borders open to the Asian markets and keep your border to Mexico open if you get Canadian UTM beef ban because it is a genuine risk of death. Or have you forgotten that the US HAS BSE IN THEIR NATIVE HERD. If the courts agree to close the border to all beef then what will that be telling your consumers Haymaker. THAT ALL US BEEF IS ALSO UNSAFE FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. You guys are so stupid you would cut your own nose off to spite your face. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Tam- Canadian beef is already negatively affecting out export trade- countries that we are exporting to are demanding US ONLY beef- and that is the reason the USDA has had to set up the BEV program and those packers participating in that program have to go thru the extra rules and efforts to guarantee a US product....Still too bad USDA won't do that for US customers......
 

Murgen

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Japan and Korea are going to do whatever they want regardless of what the US does with Canada. They have even said as much. I can't believe you brought that up again.

Closing our borders to Canada will tell our consumers that the suppliers of the raw product (ranchers) are concerned enough about the safety of beef they will do what it takes to make the USDA do their job - that of protecting the US food supply. To allow the USDA the habit of putting the entire industry at risk in the name of trade would be the foolish course of action/inaction.

So Sandhucker, with this logic, you believe the US will gain these markets back b4 Canada? We'll see, but in the words of Haymaker, good luck!

I will project that Japan etc. will open for Canada b4 the US, or at the same time.
 

Sandhusker

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Murgen said:
Japan and Korea are going to do whatever they want regardless of what the US does with Canada. They have even said as much. I can't believe you brought that up again.

Closing our borders to Canada will tell our consumers that the suppliers of the raw product (ranchers) are concerned enough about the safety of beef they will do what it takes to make the USDA do their job - that of protecting the US food supply. To allow the USDA the habit of putting the entire industry at risk in the name of trade would be the foolish course of action/inaction.

So Sandhucker, with this logic, you believe the US will gain these markets back b4 Canada? We'll see, but in the words of Haymaker, good luck!

I will project that Japan etc. will open for Canada b4 the US, or at the same time.

I'm just telling you, as Japan has said very simply, what we do with you will have no bearing on what they do with us.

Oldtimer makes a good point about the BEV program. You should ask yourself why this was created. It was done for a reason.
 

Murgen

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Could it be that the USDA's BEV program is to appease the COOL crowd?, to somewhat of a degree?

Hey, did you hear that we (Canada) are shipping product to some countries, that are still not taking US beef? What's up with that?
 

Sandhusker

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Murgen said:
Could it be that the USDA's BEV program is to appease the COOL crowd?, to somewhat of a degree?

Hey, did you hear that we (Canada) are shipping product to some countries, that are still not taking US beef? What's up with that?

I'm in tune with the COOL crowd and hear of nobody being appeased.

I didn't know anybody was taking your beef and not ours. Who are they?
 

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Sorry boys but if you think you can make our beef look unsafe in the eyes of the consumer and that not affect your beef you are kidding yourselves. R-CALF said all along that beef coming from a country that is affected by BSE is tainted. If this court action succeeds you will be proving to the consumer that your beef is also TAINTED. Just what do you think the consumers will think about taking a chance on eating your beef then.

Consumer in Japan and Korea are looking at the US and saying well if the meat from an affected country is not safe to eat in the US then why do we want to import US beef as it is also affected by BSE. How many times do you guys have to be told that the Japanese consumers are the ones putting preasure on their government not to lift the restrictions on US beef. Everytime R-CALF opens their mouth and tries to prove in court our beef is not save they are telling your foreign and domestic customers that YOURS ISN"T EITHER. You can't have it both ways, either the beef is safe because of the precautionary measure we have in place or it's not. And those precautionary measure have been proven time after time to be stricter in Canada. And I'm with Murgen Japan is looking in favor of Canada to import because we have a system that you don't and that is trace back and age verification on a NATIONAL level.

And About the BEV program has that really been a issue in the negotiations since the US found their OWN NATIVE BSE CASE. Most importing countries realize that the US beef was/is in the same risk catagory as Canada's even before you found BSE IN YOUR NATIVE HERD.
 

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Do you think the multinationals know something we don't, why would they be setting up shop in Canada, to the tune of what they used to export from the US?

Record of imports for the US last year, no exports, hmmmm?

Exports of 50% for Canada, pre BSE, which amounted to about the same amount as the US exported. COOL increasing expenses if the US packers were to use Canadian beef for the market, the quality deems?

Just a guess, but I think the Multinationals are giving up on importing Canadian product to the US and re-exporting it, and will export it direct to Japan from Canada.

Our markets will be expanded! And the US's will be domestic. Just as RCALF wanted.
 

Bill

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Oldtimer said:
Tam said:
If that happens, he said R-CALF's next step would be to proceed with an application before Judge Cebull for a ban on all Canadian beef.

Just how do you R-CALFers think you are going to get your borders open to the Asian markets and keep your border to Mexico open if you get Canadian UTM beef ban because it is a genuine risk of death. Or have you forgotten that the US HAS BSE IN THEIR NATIVE HERD. If the courts agree to close the border to all beef then what will that be telling your consumers Haymaker. THAT ALL US BEEF IS ALSO UNSAFE FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. You guys are so stupid you would cut your own nose off to spite your face. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Tam- Canadian beef is already negatively affecting out export trade- countries that we are exporting to are demanding US ONLY beef- and that is the reason the USDA has had to set up the BEV program and those packers participating in that program have to go thru the extra rules and efforts to guarantee a US product....Still too bad USDA won't do that for US customers......
What countries would that be?
 

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Sandhusker said:
Closing our borders to Canada will tell our consumers that the suppliers of the raw product (ranchers) are concerned enough about the safety of beef they will do what it takes to make the USDA do their job - that of protecting the US food supply. To allow the USDA the habit of putting the entire industry at risk in the name of trade would be the foolish course of action/inaction.

Sandhusker thats BS BS BS BS and you damn well know it. You know as well as I that the name of the game is protecting prices. If safety was the issue the Canadian border would be closed to American beef, it's that simple. Why do you continue to insult our intelligence with your 'safety' song and dance routine?
 

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Silver, I can't help it if you can't see the big picture. You see, we have a little problem down here called "agency capture". The USDA is dancing to the fiddle of the big packers. These are the guys who tell us they need us, but then follow a long-term strategy of making buying US beef strictly an option. They are the same guys who want to bring in beef from all over the world, and not let anybody know where it came from. These are the same guys who will fight any small packer from getting a niche they want to protect. Their plans are potentially catastrophic to the US producer, and the have the agency in charge of policing them in their pocket. And guess what, you have the same dang problem up there.

Why do you need the US market so bad? Asia is a very lucrative market, why isn't Canada doing all they can to take that market? The answer is that your government wont buck the big packers/USDA and they don't want you to do it. Your industry is being led on a leash by the US packers and Randy Kaiser is about the only Canadian on this board who is making any waves about it. They have 80% of the packing capacity up there, you think that doesn't give them any power? Obviously that is enough to tell your own parliament what they could do with a contempt charge. I would be incensed if a company tried to pull that on Congress, but I didn't hear much from up North except that R-CALF was the problem.

"R-CALF is short sided, they're protectionist" is what I hear. We're actually trying to fix a serious problem down here, the same problem that is hurting you folks up there and all we get is static. Maybe if some of you folks up there opened your eyes and saw who was actually the threat, we could get more done. But no, the US packers have your collar on so tight you can't see straight. Maybe you like your destiny being controlled by those who profit by your weakness, we don't and are actually doing something about it.
 

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"Maybe if some of you folks up there opened your eyes and saw who was actually the threat, we could get more done."

Funny you should say that. It's exactly what people up here are saying about R-Calf. R-Calf doesn't realize that they have a very large group of potential allies up here, who would love to take the time to help make things better for primary producers in both countries. If they could just get their short-sighted vision off that border, and realize that the whole world sees us as ONE cattle herd, maybe they could even come in from the fringes and leave their PETA buddies behind.

People up here are fed up, totally fed up with getting the short end of the stick from the big packers, and not having any control over our beef. We'd love to concentrate on our REAL problem, which is the situation we live in as price takers rather than price makers. We'd love to concentrate on overseas markets. We'd love to see ranchers everywhere make a good living from their cattle. We'd love to do all those things, and help you guys out too, except that we spend so much time and energy fighting off the shackles put on us that your little bunch of protectionists make their primary focus in life.

We are not the enemy. :!: Canadian ranchers are not the problem. :!: Why do they insist on using us in their so called campaign for a better U.S. system? Because we are an easier target? Is it our fault that your system isn't keeping up? Beef leaves this country with a Canadian label on it. Don't blame us if you guys take it off. We'd rather it was left on if we had a choice.

If the USDA is the real problem, then R-Calf should take the fight to the USDA, and quit using us as the scapegoat. This whole thing is getting very old.
 

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Sandhusker look at it this way. Not only are we disadvantaged by the control the US packers have in Canada, we also have to endure R-Calf targeting our product. You can spout off all you want about R-Calf not going after Canadian producers but it is total BS and you know it.

If R-Calf is so concerned about USDA, SUE THEM for the billions you claim to have lost due to their inadequacies with the feed ban. I don't agree with that approach but at least then we may be able to believe that Canada isn't their target. Until they focus on something other than closing the Canadian border closed it is impossible to see them as anything less than an anti-Canadian lobby group that twists the knife in our backs every chance you get.
 

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Kato said:
"Maybe if some of you folks up there opened your eyes and saw who was actually the threat, we could get more done."

Funny you should say that. It's exactly what people up here are saying about R-Calf. R-Calf doesn't realize that they have a very large group of potential allies up here, who would love to take the time to help make things better for primary producers in both countries. If they could just get their short-sighted vision off that border, and realize that the whole world sees us as ONE cattle herd, maybe they could even come in from the fringes and leave their PETA buddies behind.

People up here are fed up, totally fed up with getting the short end of the stick from the big packers, and not having any control over our beef. We'd love to concentrate on our REAL problem, which is the situation we live in as price takers rather than price makers. We'd love to concentrate on overseas markets. We'd love to see ranchers everywhere make a good living from their cattle. We'd love to do all those things, and help you guys out too, except that we spend so much time and energy fighting off the shackles put on us that your little bunch of protectionists make their primary focus in life.

We are not the enemy. :!: Canadian ranchers are not the problem. :!: Why do they insist on using us in their so called campaign for a better U.S. system? Because we are an easier target? Is it our fault that your system isn't keeping up? Beef leaves this country with a Canadian label on it. Don't blame us if you guys take it off. We'd rather it was left on if we had a choice.

If the USDA is the real problem, then R-Calf should take the fight to the USDA, and quit using us as the scapegoat. This whole thing is getting very old.


Well written Kato.

Some of the ppl that use the words" see the big picture "don't know what the words mean. Close the border again because we have BSE unlike the US and the what was it uh yes 12 year old cow. If it is the USDA that rcalf is saying needs to be addressed then do so. But to start up again with shut down the borders cause the beef coming through is a danger to ours is BULLSHIT. Both countries have it.All this finger pointing no you did first...no you did first. YUp it's not a Canadian thing for some rcalf. rrrriiiiiiigggghhhhttt :roll:
 

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We know you're not the enemy. Bill Bullard has said, "This is not about Canada". I'm glad we agree on that now and we can move on. R-CALF would be taking the same stand against the USDA if this was over Mexico, Brazil, whatever.

You're getting hurt on this deal, well what are we supposed to do? Allow the packers/USDA to continue their joint actions? What is next? Kato, we're not the only market in the world to sell your beef. You wouldn't be getting hurt so bad if you concentrated on somebody else. However, we both know the powers that be wont' allow that to happen. That is not R-CALF's fault. You're mad at them for closing one door but what about the folks that are holding shut 10 doors?

Just looking at the border is the short-sided vision. If R-CALF doesn't try to break the packers/USDA party, what will they do when Brazil is on the agenda? That's the outfit that can sink us. What about if another disease crops up? There's a lot coming down the pike that will be greatly affected by how this border issue is settled. I don't see how anybody from either side of the line can't see that. Yet, to say R-CALF is short-sighted on the border deal just floors me.
 

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Bill said:
Sandhusker look at it this way. Not only are we disadvantaged by the control the US packers have in Canada, we also have to endure R-Calf targeting our product. You can spout off all you want about R-Calf not going after Canadian producers but it is total BS and you know it.

If R-Calf is so concerned about USDA, SUE THEM for the billions you claim to have lost due to their inadequacies with the feed ban. I don't agree with that approach but at least then we may be able to believe that Canada isn't their target. Until they focus on something other than closing the Canadian border closed it is impossible to see them as anything less than an anti-Canadian lobby group that twists the knife in our backs every chance you get.

Bill, why don't you sell your beef to somebody else, like Japan and Korea?
 
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One of the issues many are missing is that R-CALF almost needs to challenge this apellate action in order to keep Big Government from getting bigger and more powerful...The appeals panel looked at no evidence addressing the issues and issued their ruling only on the fact giving USDA the power to make such discretionary decisions- without a way for consumers, producers or US citizens to challenge their facts or reasoning ....More power to the bureacratic system...Several other groups are requesting R-CALF to and may join in the appeal....

Should make SH.. happy- another ruling giving more power to his big government.......

This is truly scarey when you see whats happening with USDA, and even have many high level former employees and political leaders coming out and acknowledging that USDA is totally bought and controlled by the big money multinational packers and their support groups.
 

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Sandhusker said:
We know you're not the enemy. Bill Bullard has said, "This is not about Canada". I'm glad we agree on that now and we can move on. R-CALF would be taking the same stand against the USDA if this was over Mexico, Brazil, whatever.

You're getting hurt on this deal, well what are we supposed to do? Allow the packers/USDA to continue their joint actions? What is next? Kato, we're not the only market in the world to sell your beef. You wouldn't be getting hurt so bad if you concentrated on somebody else. However, we both know the powers that be wont' allow that to happen. That is not R-CALF's fault. You're mad at them for closing one door but what about the folks that are holding shut 10 doors?

Just looking at the border is the short-sided vision. If R-CALF doesn't try to break the packers/USDA party, what will they do when Brazil is on the agenda? That's the outfit that can sink us. What about if another disease crops up? There's a lot coming down the pike that will be greatly affected by how this border issue is settled. I don't see how anybody from either side of the line can't see that. Yet, to say R-CALF is short-sighted on the border deal just floors me.

I'm so sick of hearing Bill and Leo and YOU say this is not about Canada out of one side of your mouth then lie about the safety of our beef out of the other to protect your cattle prices. :mad:
I asked before what does lying about the safety of our beef do to your fight against the USDA? To me all it does is p**s Canadians off and make it look as if the USDA is doing a better job. R-CALF then turns around and claims the USDA and FDA are failing. Great credibility builder there. :roll:
Sandhusker you expect help from the Canadian Producers that are left after R-CALF has lied about our beef for over two years. :shock: If anyone has added to the power of the big packers in Canada it is R-CALF, by giving them a captive supply of cattle. If this border would have openned in a timely manner those packers would have had some competition for our cattle but NO R-CALF had to protect your cattle prices while we were swinging on the end of a weak rope. Now you think we should help you reverse the damage you are causing. :roll:
 

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