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Canadian Winos affected by Trade Sanctions?

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Trade war may hit billions in U.S. imports


Canadian Press


Wednesday, August 24, 2005




OTTAWA -- Canadians could be faced with soaring prices for their favourite Napa Valley merlot, Florida orange juice or fresh vegetables from southern California if a trade war with the United States overheats.

Such a scenario could unfold on grocery shelves and kitchen tables if the federal government follows through on threats to retaliate against Washington for snubbing a major NAFTA ruling that favoured Canada in the softwood lumber dispute.

Several Liberal cabinet ministers say they're prepared to fight back with trade sanctions to force Washington to recognize Canada's victory and end the longrunning dispute that has so far cost this country's lumber industry more than $5 billion in penalties.

At national Liberal caucus meetings this week in Regina, ministers suggested Canadians are outraged at the idea the U.S. isn't following trade rules and want tough action to bring it into line.

But some trade experts warn that Ottawa could be biting off more than it can chew if it follows through on threats against the country's biggest customer.

"Retaliation is a mug's game," warns Ottawa-based trade lawyer Peter Clark.

"It's going to be very difficult to find things that we could do to them that are not going to hurt us."

Slapping duties on U.S. exports to make them more expensive and therefore hurt producers south of the border could drive up Canadians' grocery bills or hurt domestic businesses that use American materials in their products.

Besides, added Clark, it's a long, complicated process that could take the federal Trade department as long as two years to finalize a list of target products.

And it's expensive - Ottawa has already asked the World Trade Organization for permission to retaliate in the same amount as Washington's duties on softwood - $5 billion and rising daily.

That would means either targeting a lot of Florida fruit or California wine - or an export tax on energy sales south of border, said Clark.

"That would certainly get their attention."

But sideswiping Canada's oilpatch would also be playing with fire at home, putting a major industry at risk, warned Nancy Hughes Anthony, president of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce.

"We have to be very careful not to make a bad situation worse."

Federal officials have quickly ruled out any limits on energy exports, suggesting it would hurt the domestic oilpatch.

But as preliminary lists of possible targets are being drafted, some other consumers items are definitely on the table.

Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew suggested earlier this week that California wines could be a possible target.

"I do believe that we should do it in a way that will not go to the detriment of other Canadian interests," said Pettigrew, a former trade minister who dealt with the softwood dispute.

"We have to do it in a way that some U.S. interests will ring their senators and congressmen in Washington."

Trade lawyer Barry Appleton says Ottawa should fight the powerful American lumber industry on its home turf by challenging its softwood case in U.S. courts - the only arbiter the Americans will heed, he says.

"When you retaliate, who does that really help? You're just making goods more expensive at home," said the Toronto lawyer.

"They're holding our softwood industry ransom so we've got to think creatively."

The potential cost of retaliation to Canadian consumers is part of the reason Ottawa so rarely takes that step - especially against the mighty United States.

It took a small but similar step earlier this year, however, after the World Trade Organization authorized Ottawa to slap duties worth about $14 million on a handful of U.S. products including live swine, oysters and specialty fish.

That was part of a multination protest against a U.S. trade law.

Clark suggested much of the Liberal government's noise is mere posturing in the hopes of convincing the U.S. to resume negotiating a better softwood trade arrangement.

"The (Liberal cabinet) ministers hope it's possible to use the fuss and the pressure to do a deal."
 

Kathy

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Interesting how this article concentrates on the retaliation by Canada, and not the guilt of the USA.

Give the Canadian lumber industry back their 5 billion, and there won't be any problem.

If you don't, to hell with retaliation; scrap NAFTA!
 
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Kathy said:
to hell with retaliation; scrap NAFTA!

AMEN But I was just reading where when your Prime Minister met with President Fox and President Bush in March they adopted a plan called NAFTA Plus-- which according to the analysts fasttracks NAFTA and makes Mexico and Canada much more dependent on the US- plus giving up much more of each countries sovereignty...

Trade Agreements- Such wonderful things :wink: :???: :cry: :mad:
 

Bill

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The only solution is to put a 8 billion dollar surcharge on E N E R G Y destined for the US market over the next year.

No use in putting food costs up for Canadians, pass it on to the good 'ol USA where it belongs. That only amounts to approx. $22.86 more per American.

It should be worth that to keep the lights on in the mid-west.
 
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Bill said:
The only solution is to put a 8 billion dollar surcharge on E N E R G Y destined for the US market over the next year.

Won't happen Bill- Isn't it true that the majority of Alberta oil interests are owned or leased by US based companies- Companies that financed, developed, built, and run the industry in Canada...Companies that our current President and Vice President have tight ties to...Face it the US is slowly taking over your country....
 

HAY MAKER

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Say old Timer,taking over canada dont sound all bad,build me a big house with a big front porch,sit up there all day sipping that canadian whiskey with a couple french hussies,have ole Bill patching fence for me,dont sound all bad :D :D :D .............good luck
 

Bill

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Oldtimer said:
Bill said:
The only solution is to put a 8 billion dollar surcharge on E N E R G Y destined for the US market over the next year.

Won't happen Bill- Isn't it true that the majority of Alberta oil interests are owned or leased by US based companies- Companies that financed, developed, built, and run the industry in Canada...Companies that our current President and Vice President have tight ties to...Face it the US is slowly taking over your country....
The next time you have a power outage OT just imagine mid Janurary and that it may not come back on for a month.
 
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Bill said:
Oldtimer said:
Bill said:
The only solution is to put a 8 billion dollar surcharge on E N E R G Y destined for the US market over the next year.

Won't happen Bill- Isn't it true that the majority of Alberta oil interests are owned or leased by US based companies- Companies that financed, developed, built, and run the industry in Canada...Companies that our current President and Vice President have tight ties to...Face it the US is slowly taking over your country....
The next time you have a power outage OT just imagine mid Janurary and that it may not come back on for a month.

The US living shareholders that now control the biggest share of Canadian industry won't let a power outage occur- would screw up their air conditioning in Dallas or Miami :wink:
 

Bill

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Oldtimer said:
Bill said:
Oldtimer said:
Won't happen Bill- Isn't it true that the majority of Alberta oil interests are owned or leased by US based companies- Companies that financed, developed, built, and run the industry in Canada...Companies that our current President and Vice President have tight ties to...Face it the US is slowly taking over your country....
The next time you have a power outage OT just imagine mid Janurary and that it may not come back on for a month.

The US living shareholders that now control the biggest share of Canadian industry won't let a power outage occur- would screw up their air conditioning in Dallas or Miami :wink:
Less and less of those shareholders are individuals living in the US.

The biggest fear many Canadians have is being a terrorist target because of our energy supply to the US. Pipelines and generation plants targeted in this country would cripple us both without giving a rip as to who owns who.
 
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Bill said:
Oldtimer said:
Bill said:
The next time you have a power outage OT just imagine mid Janurary and that it may not come back on for a month.

The US living shareholders that now control the biggest share of Canadian industry won't let a power outage occur- would screw up their air conditioning in Dallas or Miami :wink:
Less and less of those shareholders are individuals living in the US.

The biggest fear many Canadians have is being a terrorist target because of our energy supply to the US. Pipelines and generation plants targeted in this country would cripple us both without giving a rip as to who owns who.

Bill- I will agree with you on that-- that is a worry we both should have...In my previous career I was involved quite a bit with what we worried most about then- domestic terrorism- mostly the militias and internal militant groups- (only a few ever thought that the foreign groups would ever attack within the country)... I became privy to a lot of info on how to attack our power systems since we have a major power plant in our county- and it scares the hell out of you...If you know the right locations you can shut down half of both countries from just one attack on one location.
 

Tam

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HAY MAKER said:
Say old Timer,taking over canada dont sound all bad,build me a big house with a big front porch,sit up there all day sipping that canadian whiskey with a couple french hussies,have ole Bill patching fence for me,dont sound all bad :D :D :D .............good luck

Yes Haymaker you would probably be tucked into your nice warm feather bed with those french hussies sipping Hot Toddies while Bill is out doing your winter chores too. As the cow would starve waiting for your skinny little but to venture out in the Cold of a Canadian winter. :wink:
 

HAY MAKER

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Tam said:
HAY MAKER said:
Say old Timer,taking over canada dont sound all bad,build me a big house with a big front porch,sit up there all day sipping that canadian whiskey with a couple french hussies,have ole Bill patching fence for me,dont sound all bad :D :D :D .............good luck

Yes Haymaker you would probably be tucked into your nice warm feather bed with those french hussies sipping Hot Toddies while Bill is out doing your winter chores too. As the cow would starve waiting for your skinny little but to venture out in the Cold of a Canad :D ian winter. :wink:

I dont like cold weather,and neither does Mr Tam,thats why he is always lookin for woolies,and having you shovel snow :D .........good luck
 

Tam

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HAY MAKER said:
Tam said:
HAY MAKER said:
Say old Timer,taking over canada dont sound all bad,build me a big house with a big front porch,sit up there all day sipping that canadian whiskey with a couple french hussies,have ole Bill patching fence for me,dont sound all bad :D :D :D .............good luck

Yes Haymaker you would probably be tucked into your nice warm feather bed with those french hussies sipping Hot Toddies while Bill is out doing your winter chores too. As the cow would starve waiting for your skinny little butt to venture out in the Cold of a Canad :D ian winter. :wink:

I dont like cold weather,and neither does Mr Tam,thats why he is always lookin for woolies,and having you shovel snow :D .........good luck

I guess it is best you just stay in Texas and let Mr Tam and I worry about who shovels the snow in Canada, Haymaker. As I see it you would just become an absentee, in mind and or body, slumlord taking all the profits and spending them for your enjoyment in the warmer climates of Mexico while poor old cold Bill did all your hard work for you. :wink:
 

Bill

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Oldtimer said:
Bill said:
Oldtimer said:
The US living shareholders that now control the biggest share of Canadian industry won't let a power outage occur- would screw up their air conditioning in Dallas or Miami :wink:
Less and less of those shareholders are individuals living in the US.

The biggest fear many Canadians have is being a terrorist target because of our energy supply to the US. Pipelines and generation plants targeted in this country would cripple us both without giving a rip as to who owns who.

Bill- I will agree with you on that-- that is a worry we both should have...In my previous career I was involved quite a bit with what we worried most about then- domestic terrorism- mostly the militias and internal militant groups- (only a few ever thought that the foreign groups would ever attack within the country)... I became privy to a lot of info on how to attack our power systems since we have a major power plant in our county- and it scares the hell out of you...If you know the right locations you can shut down half of both countries from just one attack on one location.
Yep OT we agree on that. Better put a mark on the wall :!: :lol:
 

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Just so you know, Prime Minister Martin is an @@@[email protected]@@@, no I can't say that on here.

He doesn't speak for Canadians. He speaks for greed. He speeks for those who financially support the Liberal party, and his shipping company. Nothing but a talking head that can't see the people of Canada are fed up with this governments' squandering of their tax dollars.

Today a radio host said "there is no reason for Canada to be in debt", and by God, he is absolutely right. He further stated, "with a country as rich in resources as Canada, and with such a small population, we should all be enjoying the good life". I agree with him, wholeheartedly. Our centralized government is no longer needed in western Canada. It is time to get rid of our shackles, and give birth to a new independent Western Canada. If the Liberals get re-elected next time, the clock will start its countdown. Easterners will laugh, but the west has had all it can take.

The USA collected the 5 billion off the backs of the Forestry Industry. Unfortunately, that to is saturated with American Companies. Hey, maybe they got some of that money back, below the 49th, already and the money is not held in trust as it should be?
 

redriver

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Oldtimer said:
Bill said:
The only solution is to put a 8 billion dollar surcharge on E N E R G Y destined for the US market over the next year.

Won't happen Bill- Isn't it true that the majority of Alberta oil interests are owned or leased by US based companies- Companies that financed, developed, built, and run the industry in Canada...Companies that our current President and Vice President have tight ties to...Face it the US is slowly taking over your country....

Boy, that's a major display of ignorance, and arrogance. There are very few US companies operating in Alberta. Another "american myth". You assholes don't own everything.
 
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