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Castration

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Mike

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Lawmakers debate castration as punishment for sex offeners
Last Update: 7/23/2005 2:47:57 PM

MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) - Some members of the Alabama House say that violent sex offenders who prey on children should be forced to undergo surgical castration to ensure that they do not hurt another child.

In an effort to strengthen a bill toughening the state's laws against sex offenders, the House added an amendment Thursday by Rep. Steve Hurst, D-Munford, that would require those convicted of violent sex crimes against children under 12 to undergo the operation to remove their sex drive.

"Someone 12 or under can't defend themselves. I don't believe they should ever be back in society. But if they are going to be back in society, it should be in a reformed way where they can't become a repeat offender," Hurst said.

The amendment sparked a heated debate in the Legislature, with some lawmakers saying that no punishment is too tough if it protects children, while others said talk of extreme punishments like castration was political rhetoric aimed at helping legislators get re-elected next year.

At one point the discussion became so graphic that Speaker Seth Hammett, D-Andalusia, stopped the debate and reminded lawmakers that there were "citizens of all ages" observing in the House gallery.

The bill, as originally introduced in the Legislature, provides tougher sentences for sex offenders, removes the possibility of probation or parole from sex offenders and requires some to wear electronic monitoring devices after they are released from prison. The original bill is being supported by Gov. Bob Riley and Attorney General Troy King.

The Senate voted Thursday to approve the original bill and send it to the House to consider. The House, meanwhile, passed the amended version with castration and sent it to the Senate, where it has not been considered by a committee.

When the House Judiciary Committee took up the Senate-passed bill Friday, King told the committee that he feared the legislation would be unconstitutional if it included the castration provision, citing a 1940s Supreme Court ruling that said sterilization was an unconstitutional punishment.

"I would hate to see us invite a constitutional challenge that I feel we can't win," King said. The committee approved a Senate-passed version that does not include the castration amendment, but an attempt to add the language is expected when the bill comes up for final passage in the House Tuesday.

The sponsor of the House bill, Rep. Neal Morrison, D-Cullman, said most lawmakers agree that castration is not too harsh of a sentence for people who prey on young children.

"I don't think you'll find anyone who is not in favor of doing that to those who harm children under 12. However, we believe the courts have ruled that you can't do that," Morrison said.

During his administration, former Gov. Don Siegelman proposed legislation to require chemical castration of sex offenders against children. He said Friday that the electronic monitoring devices would not prevent offenders from attacking children and said the House should put the castration language back in the bill.

"An ankle bracelet is not going to stop a predator from doing anything," Siegelman said. "They need to protect children from predators who need to be castrated or killed."

During Thursday's debate, before passing the mandatory castration amendment, the House first added an amendment by Rep. Jeremy Oden, R-Eva, that allowed convicted sex offenders to volunteer to undergo surgical castration before being released from prison.

"It will prevent these people from committing these types of crimes ever again," Oden said.

University of Alabama Criminal Justice Professor Robert Sigler said castration has not proven to be an effective way to stop sex offenders from repeating their crimes.

"Research indicates that sexual abuse is not necessarily sexual. These people are mentally ill and sexual castration often does not solve the problem," Sigler said.

He said a program where convicted sex offenders are required to take polygraph tests once a month is being used in some parts of Alabama and has proved more effective than castration.

"The fact that they know they are going to be polygraphed helps them control the urges that they have," Sigler said.

He said he also feels that adding the castration language would make the bill unconstitutional.

"I would suggest that any law requiring castration would be overturned," Sigler said.

Several legislators said they understand the sentiment to get as tough as possible with sex offenders, but don't want to do anything that would cause the bill to be overturned in court.

Sen. Rodger Smitherman, D-Birmingham, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said he believes the castration amendment was added in the House because lawmakers are very concerned about the issue.

"It's an alarming issue. But we want to make sure we don't pass something that doesn't meet constitutional review," Smitherman said.

©
 

DOC HARRIS

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This subject is as complex as a Gordian knot! On the one hand, I feel that probably everyone on this Board feels exactly the same way upon reading the news announcements as I do! At least I would hope that everyone reacts with a vile repulsion to these repetitive sex-offending acts which occur almost daily and appear in the news broadcasts and telecasts. My first reaction and impulse to these acts is emotional rage and anger and instant acceptance of the idea of castration! One can reiterate all the reasons and justifications for doing so - and go on and on and on. But then we need to think about the ramifications of doing that deed - - - - -and I still agree that it should be done - to eliminate the CAUSE of the problem and not just treat the SYMPTOMS................ BUT.....would that SOLVE the problem?? Or....would the perpetrator merely direct his sickness in another direction - - if for retaliatory and revengeful reasons alone and NOT necessarily because of the primary psychological etiologies. The ramifications and complexities could be enormous - and involve damage to not only people but personal property as well. It could very well result in "sowing the wind and reaping the whirlwind."

The solution to this problem - and it is a problem which is not going to just disappear by new laws or edicts or decrees - must involve long and careful thought - NOT by legislators - or lawers - or Psychiatrists - or Psychologists - or compassionate and "understanding" social workers - or humanitarians - or do-gooders. No,.... the resolution of the dillema, IN MY OPINION, involves a combination of actions to be totally effective - to wit: Castration - however achieved (and I have several suggestions!) AND Lifetime Incarceration in prison with NO option of parole. That would eliminate the "urges" (as 'they' say) and preclude reprisal and vengeance to the public at large on the part of the CRIMINAL. The people who do these deeds are CRIMINALS and do not merit our "Being fair" or understanding or compassionate. "We" were all those things when they were growing up, and the 'school systems' did all the WONDERFUL things for our 'children'. Now, we are "Reaping the Whirlwind!"

Those are my thoughts.........DON'T GET ME STARTED! DOC HARRIS
 

mp.freelance

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Doc,

Very insightful post. I believe there's evil in every human, but that's not a reason to justify out negative actions. When our society considers the reasons someone may molest children, rob banks, or even shoplift, oftentimes the reasons they did it are put above and separated from the individual himself. This isn't right - we're all accountable for what we do. Whatever proclivities a person may have, we still need to do the right thing and be held responsible for them. Is castration for sex offenders the answer? It would probably be effective. But in a culture in which the sin is divorced from the sinner, we can hardly expect that the most effective approach will actually be used. Makes one feel powerless, to a degree.

MP
 

jrmckee

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Instead of us tax payers paying to have their balls surgically removed, get the ropes and blade from the vet bag. Tie him up and wack, wack, pull, pull and your done. Make him suffer a little, then this will be a lesson to others.
 

Brad S

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Nice long prison stints, real time 40 years, will send a message that we won't tolerate bad behavior. Its time we deal with such destructive crime in a sensible way.

I don't care much about castration, I want them to stay in the men's club
 

DOC HARRIS

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Maple Leaf Angus said:
Does anyone remember the term 'corporal punishment'? Whatever became of it?
Why......for Heaven's Sakes, Maple Leaf Angus................we can't do THAT! :shock: :shock: .Why....that would destroy their incentives- - - and - - damage their little ego's and .....oh my Goodness......just..SHATTER their .......tsk....tsk.....oh what is it?.....oh ..yes....their...SELF ESTEEM! :( and, Gracious Sakes.........we just can't do THAT! ....why- - -it wouldn't be FAIR! :roll: :roll:

DON'T GET ME STARTED! :mad:
 

ranchwife

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DOC HARRIS said:
Maple Leaf Angus said:
Does anyone remember the term 'corporal punishment'? Whatever became of it?
Why......for Heaven's Sakes, Maple Leaf Angus................we can't do THAT! :shock: :shock: .Why....that would destroy their incentives- - - and - - damage their little ego's and .....oh my Goodness......just..SHATTER their .......tsk....tsk.....oh what is it?.....oh ..yes....their...SELF ESTEEM! :( and, Gracious Sakes.........we just can't do THAT! ....why- - -it wouldn't be FAIR! :roll: :roll:

DON'T GET ME STARTED! :mad:

I worked in the correction system of 2 states (montana and wyoming) as a nurse of a total of 3 years and in those years I had my eyes opened...wide!!!! I had one serial child molester ( his last victim was a 4 year old boy whose pelvis was SHATTERED in the attack and is now wheel chair bound for life because of this monster) tell me (to my face, no less) that there "is no cure for what we(molesters) do...they can make us go through all the phases of therapy there are, but we WILL GET OUT AND WE WILL RE-OFFEND!!"....made me go home and hold my own kids as though my life depended on it!!! In my own honest opinion, there is no worse crime in this world than the crime against an innocent, defenseless child!! Prison is too good....castration is too good.....living and breathing is wayyyyy toooo gooood!!!!
 

mp.freelance

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The ACLU, which a lot of folks don't know, started out as little more than a front group for communists. Now that I think about it, it hasn't evolved much.

By the way: the organization that Planned Parenthood came from was started by a woman who believed abortion was an excellent method for social engineering. Her goal was to reduce the population of African Americans and other "undesirables."

How the hell did these groups ever become considered "mainstream?"
 

DOC HARRIS

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mp.freelance said:
The ACLU, which a lot of folks don't know, started out as little more than a front group for communists. Now that I think about it, it hasn't evolved much.

By the way: the organization that Planned Parenthood came from was started by a woman who believed abortion was an excellent method for social engineering. Her goal was to reduce the population of African Americans and other "undesirables."

How the hell did these groups ever become considered "mainstream?"
Because of a consenting, willing, lazy, ignorant of facts, pacifistic, non-aggressive, non-combative voting public who have been convinced that "being nice" and "doing unto others" and "being sweet" and practicing propitiation and appeasement by the Left-wing Liberals in our midst, in our government and in our schools for the last 70 years has turned too many of our younger citizens into groveling wimps - particularly our men! Jesus Christ was NOT a groveling wimp when he threw the crooks and money-changers and so-called 'Leaders' out of the Temple! This Republic MUST get the courage, determination, self-assertion and steadfastness that our Founding Father's expressed or we will continue to say, "How the Hell did this ever happen!"

DON'T GET ME STARTED!

DOC HARRIS
 

TXTibbs

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mlsfarms said:
Castration is just plumb too good for those individuals.

Maybe if they use a dull butter knife, or a rusty soup spoon to scoop them out it would make things worse. And just squirt a little lysol in there and let them up.....they can fight off their own flies!!!
 

Cal

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Listened to Dr. Dean Adel (sp?) on the radio yesterday. He said that castration wouldn't deter sex offenders because if they took testosterone supplements that could be bought in some health food stores they would still be able to carry out their crime. Actually, I think Loreena Bobbit had the right idea, just don't sew it back on.
 

Cal

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Faster horses said:
Personally, I think Dr. Dean Adell is another one of the LIBERALS. Ever listened to him very long?

I agree with you, actually. Radio reception was bad, and I was in the Sandhills, so had to settle on listening to him for a while.
 

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