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cattle dealers

peacecountry

Well-known member
It wrong to think about being a dealer these people sit at the local auction they seem to pray on others hardships. short on grass whatever take those animals home get looking good take back 3 weeks later make a hundred bucks and do it again.as acow calf man it seems criminal but they seem to make money .what happens if cattle ever go up in price.
 

Kato

Well-known member
I don't think they always make money. Lots of times they do, but not all the time. About three quarters of the long time buyers we know have gone broke at one time or another. They gamble for a living, and it's not always a win.

The way I see it, no matter how low a price you get, the guy who bought the animal bid higher than anyone else. As long as the bidding was honest, and the first and second bidder weren't working together, there's not much to do about it. If you're selling at an auction where there's only one buyer, or the buyers don't honestly compete, then get out of that place and find a better market.

If they're making money rerunning cattle, then whoever is selling them needs to take away the option to improve them and gain from it. The best way to get a good price at any auction is to bring cattle that don't need improving. Do that at home, and get paid for it yourself.

We buy calves to background. The ones that make us the best money are the well bred calves who haven't had their homework done. They've got horns, or they are bulls, or they haven't had ivomec, and have poor coats, and they are small. We clean them up, castrate them, grow them big enough for a big feedlot to want, and a lot of the profit comes from the cleaning up that we did. Whoever sold those calves to us gave away that extra money. 99.9% of the calves we buy, if they were our own home raised calves, would never have seen the auction at the size we buy them.

The bottom line on these calves is that we will only pay one bid more than the next bidder. That's just how it works. Even if we think they are worth more, if no one else bids against us, that's as high as the price gets.
 

flyingS

Well-known member
It seems as though it is always easy to blame the buyer, but like the Kato said the seller has options too. They can no sale cattle or market them privately, switch selling strategies (barn vs. video). Sell your cattle before they get in poor condition. A person needs to be accountable for their own actions instead of always looking for someone or something else to blame. After all the buyer didn't put the seller in the situation he or she is in.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
peacecountry said:
It wrong to think about being a dealer these people sit at the local auction they seem to pray on others hardships. short on grass whatever take those animals home get looking good take back 3 weeks later make a hundred bucks and do it again.as acow calf man it seems criminal but they seem to make money .what happens if cattle ever go up in price.

If they "sit at the local auction" and have the highest bid on someone's cattle, for whatever reason, they have done the seller a favor by giving him or her the most money on that day. If they take the animal home, clean it up, fatten it up, or whatever, what is wrong with making a profit on it a few weeks later? It seems like an honorable way to make a living as far as I am concerned. If that buyer had not been at the sale the first time when the cattle came through, the seller would have received less money than they did. The cattle were there on sale day, and someone was going to buy those cattle.

What I do have a real problem with though, are the sale barn sharpies who take bids out of the air and pull other less-than-honest fast buck procedures. It is a real pet peeve of mine, and is a great big reason I don't attend hardly any high-falutin' bull sales.
 

PATB

Well-known member
AS long as the auction is run fair and above the board all bidders are welcomed. It is the sellers fault for not improving his cattle to receive a higher price.
 

burnt

Well-known member
I tend to agree with Soap on this one. Even a dealer is adding a bit of value as long as the sale is above board.

Sometimes there are calves that are worth far more than their selling price, but the owner doesn't have the option of growing them out or improving their condition to maximize their value.

A few weeks ago. I went (which is very rare) to a sale and saw some almost 3 wgt Charolais heifer calves sell for around 85 cents. About $250!!!!!!

But they were the tail end of a big group of calves that was being sold and the owner didn't want them around for some reason, I guess.

So if I could have bought those calves (I don't have room :( ) and fed them until grass time, would that make me a dealer?
 

Justin

Well-known member
Soapweed said:
peacecountry said:
It wrong to think about being a dealer these people sit at the local auction they seem to pray on others hardships. short on grass whatever take those animals home get looking good take back 3 weeks later make a hundred bucks and do it again.as acow calf man it seems criminal but they seem to make money .what happens if cattle ever go up in price.

If they "sit at the local auction" and have the highest bid on someone's cattle, for whatever reason, they have done the seller a favor by giving him or her the most money on that day. If they take the animal home, clean it up, fatten it up, or whatever, what is wrong with making a profit on it a few weeks later? It seems like an honorable way to make a living as far as I am concerned. If that buyer had not been at the sale the first time when the cattle came through, the seller would have received less money than they did. The cattle were there on sale day, and someone was going to buy those cattle.

What I do have a real problem with though, are the sale barn sharpies who take bids out of the air and pull other less-than-honest fast buck procedures. It is a real pet peeve of mine, and is a great big reason I don't attend hardly any high-falutin' bull sales.

i agree, well said
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
lazy ace said:
Hey Soapweed how do you market your calves in the fall?

have a good one

lazy ace

I market them through a sale barn. On regular feeder sales, there is very little hanky-panky, but at bull sales and Black Hills Stock Show horse sales it runs rampant. Another pet peeve of mine when it gets down to the end on selling a bull, is when the auctioneer will only take a $250 bid and nothing else. That is a full $500 from the bidder's last bid. To the big name bull purveyors that doesn't sound like much. To a commercial cattleman, that is the price of one calf, or far more than what is costs to travel to the bull sale in the first place.

Just my humble thoughts, for what they are worth. :wink:
 

lazy ace

Well-known member
Soapweed said:
lazy ace said:
Hey Soapweed how do you market your calves in the fall?

have a good one

lazy ace

I market them through a sale barn. On regular feeder sales, there is very little hanky-panky, but at bull sales and Black Hills Stock Show horse sales it runs rampant. Another pet peeve of mine when it gets down to the end on selling a bull, is when the auctioneer will only take a $250 bid and nothing else. That is a full $500 from the bidder's last bid. To the big name bull purveyors that doesn't sound like much. To a commercial cattleman, that is the price of one calf, or far more than what is costs to travel to the bull sale in the first place.

Just my humble thoughts, for what they are worth. :wink:


:lol: :lol: :lol: Those auctioneers at the Black Hills Stock Show are just rotten :roll: especially when they sell at every major auction market in the fall selling feeder cattle.

have a good one

lazy ace
 

DejaVu

Well-known member
Okay. Here's the story from the other side. I buy those calves. I buy mainly over the internet. I get them home and must have GOOD pens. These calves might weigh 600lbs and are right off the cow. No shots, never have seen a feed bunk. Absolutely no health program behind them. Some are still bulls, some have had an idiot cut them and leave one nut, some have had the nuts shoved up in them and then banded. :mad: So I spend the money on shots, worming, and probably antibiotics. I damn near live with these calves for weeks. Out of 100, I'll probably lose 2. That's my average. I have them bunk broke, hot wire broke, all vaccinations up to date, and more tame than they came in. They get salt and mineral. Fresh clean water. I do the work that someone is too lazy to do. You have issues with that? I see no reason to reward anyone with high prices for his calves when he didn't do anything to earn it. That's the government's job, it's called welfare. We don't need it when it comes to our cattle. My opinion is, animal cruelty starts with the person too lazy, too indifferent to provide herd health. He/she is selling those calves with no regard to their future.
 

Grassfarmer

Well-known member
peacecountry said:
It wrong to think about being a dealer these people sit at the local auction they seem to pray on others hardships. short on grass whatever take those animals home get looking good take back 3 weeks later make a hundred bucks and do it again.as acow calf man it seems criminal but they seem to make money .what happens if cattle ever go up in price.

I might be misreading you post but are you suggesting it might be a good thing to become a dealer rather than you are running down dealers? I think buying as Kato suggested is one of the safest ways to be in the cattle business at the moment. We've started to add a few every winter to our own calves that we will take to grass - they might be horned, bulls or off sizes on the day but with a bit of management they can become good cattle that sell in a group down the road. I like this little sideline and I think it will work well in times of higher prices too - as long as there continue to be a lot of ranchers that are poor marketers.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
lazy ace said:
Soapweed said:
lazy ace said:
Hey Soapweed how do you market your calves in the fall?

have a good one

lazy ace

I market them through a sale barn. On regular feeder sales, there is very little hanky-panky, but at bull sales and Black Hills Stock Show horse sales it runs rampant. Another pet peeve of mine when it gets down to the end on selling a bull, is when the auctioneer will only take a $250 bid and nothing else. That is a full $500 from the bidder's last bid. To the big name bull purveyors that doesn't sound like much. To a commercial cattleman, that is the price of one calf, or far more than what is costs to travel to the bull sale in the first place.

Just my humble thoughts, for what they are worth. :wink:


:lol: :lol: :lol: Those auctioneers at the Black Hills Stock Show are just rotten :roll: especially when they sell at every major auction market in the fall selling feeder cattle.

have a good one

lazy ace

They do a good job--sometimes it is just too good a job, and way beyond the call of duty. :wink: :) And the fieldmen can be just as guilty.

In my dad's first Hereford bull auction at the ranch in 1973, some of the ringmen got a bit carried away. When the sale was over, a Ron Wall supposedly from Chadron, Nebraska, had "bought" three bulls. There was no such person, and Dad got hung with those three bulls. The following year, my dad had a little visit with the auctioneer and sales crew before the sale started. He told them he wanted an honest sale run, and if nobody bid to not act like someone did. Well, about three bulls into the sale, they hung up on a rafter bid. Dad stopped the sale, and told those guys in a little firmer tone of voice that he meant what he said. The mob frenzy was no longer part of the deal, but the rest of the sale was on the up-and-up.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Soapweed said:
lazy ace said:
Soapweed said:
I market them through a sale barn. On regular feeder sales, there is very little hanky-panky, but at bull sales and Black Hills Stock Show horse sales it runs rampant. Another pet peeve of mine when it gets down to the end on selling a bull, is when the auctioneer will only take a $250 bid and nothing else. That is a full $500 from the bidder's last bid. To the big name bull purveyors that doesn't sound like much. To a commercial cattleman, that is the price of one calf, or far more than what is costs to travel to the bull sale in the first place.

Just my humble thoughts, for what they are worth. :wink:


:lol: :lol: :lol: Those auctioneers at the Black Hills Stock Show are just rotten :roll: especially when they sell at every major auction market in the fall selling feeder cattle.

have a good one

lazy ace

They do a good job--sometimes it is just too good a job, and way beyond the call of duty. :wink: :) And the fieldmen can be just as guilty.

In my dad's first Hereford bull auction at the ranch in 1973, some of the ringmen got a bit carried away. When the sale was over, a Ron Wall supposedly from Chadron, Nebraska, had "bought" three bulls. There was no such person, and Dad got hung with those three bulls. The following year, my dad had a little visit with the auctioneer and sales crew before the sale started. He told them he wanted an honest sale run, and if nobody bid to not act like someone did. Well, about three bulls into the sale, they hung up on a rafter bid. Dad stopped the sale, and told those guys in a little firmer tone of voice that he meant what he said. The mob frenzy was no longer part of the deal, but the rest of the sale was on the up-and-up.

Must be Joe Rafters relative :???: :wink:
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Soapweed said:
lazy ace said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Those auctioneers at the Black Hills Stock Show are just rotten :roll: especially when they sell at every major auction market in the fall selling feeder cattle.

have a good one

lazy ace

They do a good job--sometimes it is just too good a job, and way beyond the call of duty. :wink: :) And the fieldmen can be just as guilty.

In my dad's first Hereford bull auction at the ranch in 1973, some of the ringmen got a bit carried away. When the sale was over, a Ron Wall supposedly from Chadron, Nebraska, had "bought" three bulls. There was no such person, and Dad got hung with those three bulls. The following year, my dad had a little visit with the auctioneer and sales crew before the sale started. He told them he wanted an honest sale run, and if nobody bid to not act like someone did. Well, about three bulls into the sale, they hung up on a rafter bid. Dad stopped the sale, and told those guys in a little firmer tone of voice that he meant what he said. The mob frenzy was no longer part of the deal, but the rest of the sale was on the up-and-up.

Must be Joe Rafters relative :???: :wink:

And a cousin to Ralph Roof and Sally Ceiling. :)
 

Justin

Well-known member
Soapweed said:
lazy ace said:
Soapweed said:
I market them through a sale barn. On regular feeder sales, there is very little hanky-panky, but at bull sales and Black Hills Stock Show horse sales it runs rampant. Another pet peeve of mine when it gets down to the end on selling a bull, is when the auctioneer will only take a $250 bid and nothing else. That is a full $500 from the bidder's last bid. To the big name bull purveyors that doesn't sound like much. To a commercial cattleman, that is the price of one calf, or far more than what is costs to travel to the bull sale in the first place.

Just my humble thoughts, for what they are worth. :wink:


:lol: :lol: :lol: Those auctioneers at the Black Hills Stock Show are just rotten :roll: especially when they sell at every major auction market in the fall selling feeder cattle.

have a good one

lazy ace

They do a good job--sometimes it is just too good a job, and way beyond the call of duty. :wink: :) And the fieldmen can be just as guilty.

In my dad's first Hereford bull auction at the ranch in 1973, some of the ringmen got a bit carried away. When the sale was over, a Ron Wall supposedly from Chadron, Nebraska, had "bought" three bulls. There was no such person, and Dad got hung with those three bulls. The following year, my dad had a little visit with the auctioneer and sales crew before the sale started. He told them he wanted an honest sale run, and if nobody bid to not act like someone did. Well, about three bulls into the sale, they hung up on a rafter bid. Dad stopped the sale, and told those guys in a little firmer tone of voice that he meant what he said. The mob frenzy was no longer part of the deal, but the rest of the sale was on the up-and-up.


:clap: :clap:
 

jingo2

Well-known member
DejaVu said:
Okay. Here's the story from the other side. I buy those calves. I buy mainly over the internet. I get them home and must have GOOD pens. These calves might weigh 600lbs and are right off the cow. No shots, never have seen a feed bunk. Absolutely no health program behind them. Some are still bulls, some have had an idiot cut them and leave one nut, some have had the nuts shoved up in them and then banded. :mad: So I spend the money on shots, worming, and probably antibiotics. I damn near live with these calves for weeks. Out of 100, I'll probably lose 2. That's my average. I have them bunk broke, hot wire broke, all vaccinations up to date, and more tame than they came in. They get salt and mineral. Fresh clean water. I do the work that someone is too lazy to do. You have issues with that? I see no reason to reward anyone with high prices for his calves when he didn't do anything to earn it. That's the government's job, it's called welfare. We don't need it when it comes to our cattle. My opinion is, animal cruelty starts with the person too lazy, too indifferent to provide herd health. He/she is selling those calves with no regard to their future.



:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
 

lazy ace

Well-known member
Soapweed I applaud your father for his great honesty and integrity. My family is also a purebred operation, holding our 32nd annual sale and being in the purebred business since the early sixties. Grandpa and dad have worked there butts off to have a good honest reputation backing it up with sound cattle. I can honestly say what happened at your dad's sale has never happened here that I can recall. I am really surprised that the same crew that hung your dad for three bulls got a second chance :oops: No second chances here for that kind of crap.

We have known our ring staff and auctioneer for years and left them money and have had them buy cattle for us at numerous sales. We have had them call people for us sale day and represent cattle for us. We have had the ring men talk people out of certain bulls because that animal would not work for the potential buyers situation. Our no sale bulls are announced as they walk out the ring.

I have no grievance with the way you buy bulls but am just tired of every purebred breeder that has an auction being the scoundrels of the earth and accused of taking all the funny money and rafter bidding.

I have read 14 pages on how CAB is a well oiled machine and is helping the industry by selling more beef. It is definitely true it is all about marketing the product you raise and being proud of it. Selling bulls for a purebred outfit is no different. The average reader takes roughly three seconds on every picture they see in an advertisement. When you are paying for advertising you are going to put the best picture you can possibly take to draw attention.

Now I am not sure why auctioneers only take $250 bids. We gladly take $100 bids. You are right that is a lot of money for both buyer and seller. What would you say if the auction market sold your calves without trying to get that last dime out of them? I have witnessed plenty of feeder sales that they backed up and started over at a lower price and on the other hand have seen cattle start above market and go from there.

Now on a lighter note sale barns is a common name for livestock auction markets but some owners don't appreciate being called sale barns. It would be the same thing if an auction market owner came into Cherry County Nebraska and told you that you had a good looking farm. Some like the respect and courtesy.

have a good one

lazy ace :wink:
 

Hay Feeder

Well-known member
Cherry County is normal cattle country. Got a great herd bull at Valentine he lasted here 9 years.

Where I live almost every sale barn is owned by cattle traders. Those guys have to buy everything sold that day for a price. That day they have to feed, haul and do there own vet work on them. So many people just make stupid mistakes in marketing their cattle and thats when the cattle trader makes his money. Just this week someone sold black cows with new born babys on them, because they did not have to worry those calves in the winter.. Those cow calf pairs were dumped next door for three days and then loaded to another sale barn and resold again in 4 days. The kid that hauls the cattle had to take individual sale barns tags off the cows and calves for his boss so they would look farm fresh.
BTW that was our local vet that bought and resold these. Sale barn trader and vet all in one package.
He also does the preg and semen checks at two not so popular sale barns.

Cattle dealer in Cherry County and Vet cattle trader here are two differnt slices of the pie.
 

BlackCattleRancher

Well-known member
Hayfeeder, you are correct. There are cattle dealers in cattle country, and there are cattle dealers in the Corn Belt, and other places I'm sure. Seller and buyer beware when you wander into salebarns around here.
 
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