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Chavez/Bin Laden kids, elligible to be President?

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
If you let Obama's situation define/interpret "Natural Born Citizen", then Chavez and Osama bin Laden, Putin, whoever could be the father of a future President of the US.

Is that what the Founders meant by "Natural Born Citizen",

Really think about this Alice, Reader and OT. Is this not what you are saying?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
If you let Obama's situation define/interpret "Natural Born Citizen", then Chavez and Osama bin Laden, Putin, whoever could be the father of a future President of the US.

Is that what the Founders meant by "Natural Born Citizen",

Really think about this Alice, Reader and OT. Is this not what you are saying?

If I thought you really cared about the Constitution- you would be preaching out about NAFTA- an unconstitutional treaty- or any of the other FTO's that were never ratified by a 2/3 majority of the Senate-but have been allowed to stand-- or the Constitutional sovereignty and states rights that were given up by these agreements...
Or Bush's throwing out of habeas corpus- and breaches of the division of power between our 3 branches of government- that sat legal precedent that now Obama has, if he chooses to follow it....

But since you're not- I know all you want to do is Fearmonger and Hatemonger- and stir sh*t ...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
If NAFTA is unconstitutional, then we should take a look at it?

Do you think the courts will listen? "We the People" no longer have "Standing"

Can't let a good crisis go to waste you know, take in FTA's, Global Warming, Finance etc. all at once!

And now children of anybody in the world can be President of the US. We have now changed the definition of "Natural Born Citizen". Wasn't it "precedent", you called it OT?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
If NAFTA is unconstitutional, then we should take a look at it?

Do you think the courts will listen? "We the People" no longer have "Standing"

Can't let a good crisis go to waste you know, take in FTA's, Global Warming, Finance etc. all at once!

And now children of anybody in the world can be President of the US. We have now changed the definition of "Natural Born Citizen". Wasn't it "precedent", you called it OT?

Many Repubs a couple years ago were calling for a Constitutional Amendment to allow AHRNOLD to run..
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Many Repubs a couple years ago were calling for a Constitutional Amendment to allow AHRNOLD to run..

Isn't that a great thing about the Constitution!, if you want to make an amendment, it is up to the people.

The Thirteenth Amendment, & Fourteenth Amendments are great examples of these.

Little bit ironic, that a Kenyan-American is refusing to answer to the very Constitution, that made it possible for sons of slaves and African Americans the right to vote for him.

If you want the President to be eligible, even if he is the son/daughter of a foreigner, then pass an amendment, until then it is Unconstitutional.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
If NAFTA is unconstitutional, then we should take a look at it?

Do you think the courts will listen? "We the People" no longer have "Standing"

Can't let a good crisis go to waste you know, take in FTA's, Global Warming, Finance etc. all at once!

And now children of anybody in the world can be President of the US. We have now changed the definition of "Natural Born Citizen". Wasn't it "precedent", you called it OT?

Many Repubs a couple years ago were calling for a Constitutional Amendment to allow AHRNOLD to run..

can you name one on here that called for that?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Steve said:
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
If NAFTA is unconstitutional, then we should take a look at it?

Do you think the courts will listen? "We the People" no longer have "Standing"

Can't let a good crisis go to waste you know, take in FTA's, Global Warming, Finance etc. all at once!

And now children of anybody in the world can be President of the US. We have now changed the definition of "Natural Born Citizen". Wasn't it "precedent", you called it OT?

Many Repubs a couple years ago were calling for a Constitutional Amendment to allow AHRNOLD to run..

can you name one on here that called for that?

Senator Orrin Hatch, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, and GHW Bush come to mind first...Some of the movement has been because of Senator Mel Martinez too...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
But no Amendment yet, right?

Obama hasn't slipped one in from the left, while he faked us right, with a Collectors DVD set, or a set of Steak Knives, has he?

Good, then he's still not eligible!, unless Castro's son born to the American waitress, who conceived while visiting Cuba, is!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
But no Amendment yet, right?

Obama hasn't slipped one in from the left, while he faked us right, with a Collectors DVD set, or a set of Steak Knives, has he?

Good, then he's still not eligible!, unless Castro's son born to the American waitress, who conceived while visiting Cuba, is!

Actually the way I read the law- and the way its been interpreted for some time now is that if an American citizen waitress was visiting Cuba- and conceived Castro's son, which was born in the US after she returned- he would be considered "Natural Born" and just as eligible to be President as GW was....
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
you are wrong OT, unless the mother lies about the father.

If the kid is shown to have dual citizenship, or ever having dual, then the kid is not Natural Born, but it should be heard by the Supreme Court, don't yuo think?

Just so we don't get little "Castro's" running the country. Or worse someone who is the child of Osama Bin Laden
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
you are wrong OT, unless the mother lies about the father.

If the kid is shown to have dual citizenship, or ever having dual, then the kid is not Natural Born, but it should be heard by the Supreme Court, don't yuo think?

Just so we don't get little "Castro's" running the country. Or worse someone who is the child of Osama Bin Laden

By this interpretation- which is identical to the interpretation Reader 2 posted a while back- and I thank Steve for doing so again-- the child- conceived in a foreign country- born in the US to a US citizen mother would be considered natural born and eligible... No matter if she knew who the father was or not- or put that on the birth certificate....Or are you now saying illegitimate born children should not be eligible for citizenship :???: To be President :???: What are you planning- requiring DNA parentage testing of all candidates now :???: :roll:

This child definitely has more standing than the child of two illegal Mexican aliens that enter the country only to give birth to their child- but the courts have already ruled these children are considered natural born citizens do to being born in the US...

* Anyone born inside the United States *

Natural-born citizen

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

* Anyone born inside the United States *
* Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
* Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
* Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
* Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
* A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

* There is an exception in the law - the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Read it again slowly, this time, it says Citizens!

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Here's the mistake, who wrote this?

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

We've been through this before, there would have been no need to say Natural Born citizen, if it was the same as "citizen"
 
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Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
Read it again slowly, this time, it says Citizens!

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Here's the mistake, who wrote this?

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

We've been through this before, there would have been no need to say Natural Born citizen, if it was the same as "citizen"

The law only recognizes two classifications- naturalized and natural born...These children born of illegals don't have to be naturalized- they are considered natural born- at time of birth....

Answer my questions on what if she doesn't know who the father is :???: Or she puts no father on the birth certificate :???: Don't you think illegitimate children of a US citizen should be citizens :???: Should be allowed to be President :???:
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Citizens are different than Natural Born Citizens.

You cannot prove me wrong! The only way to change it, is to Amend it, which has not been done.

Arnold is a citizen, a "Naturalized" citizen, he will never be President, unless the Constitution is Amended.

Obama, is a citizen, a "Dual" citizen, he will never be President, unless the Constitution is Amended.

Any time you or Reader quote anything from wikipedia, you forget this part:


One possible source of the natural born citizen clause can be traced to a letter of July 25, 1787, from John Jay (who was born in New York) to George Washington (who was born in Virginia), presiding officer of the Constitutional Convention. John Jay wrote: "Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen." (Underlining in the original)[7] There was no debate, and this qualification for the office of the Presidency was introduced by the drafting Committee of Eleven, and then adopted without discussion by the Constitutional Convention.


Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1874): "The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [p168] parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first."


Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939): The U.S. Supreme Court concluded that Marie Elizabeth Elg, who was born in the United States of Swedish parents naturalized in the United States, had not lost her birthright U.S. citizenship because of her removal during minority to Sweden and was entitled to all the rights and privileges of that U.S. citizenship. In this case, the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed the decree that declared Elg "to be a natural born citizen of the United States."

Please read this article that is used as a reference in the Wikipedia definition;

^ Definition of Natural Born Citizen Discussion by Mitchell Langbert

http://mitchell-langbert.blogspot.com/2008/08/definition-of-natural-born-citizen.html
 
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Anonymous

Guest
So you disagree with Steve then- and think his son should never have the ability to be President... :???:
 
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Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
right, unless his mother is Naturalized, check Arthur, that was the situation with him.

And while his father was Irish-who lived for some time in Canada before coming to the US-- and the conspiracy nuts went wild about Arthur being born in Canada or Ireland- he served as President.....
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
If I remember correctly, his father was Naturalized, some same fraudlently, but that was never proven.

Would you like to see the naturalization papers?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/11067180/William-Arthur-father-of-President-Chester-Arthur-Naturalization-certificate-1843-Congress
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
With Steve's son, there could be some debate, due to the fact that the Father (Steve) is American, and the child follows that citizenship.

But if you use that argument, it doesn't help out Barry Soetoro/Obama much.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
If I remember correctly, his father was Naturalized, some same fraudlently, but that was never proven.

14 years after Chesters birth :???:
 
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