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"clip" what will those canuckleheads think of next

QUESTION

Well-known member
Sand H i was wrong and appoligize. I am not up on the history of alaska as i should be.
OT thanks for staightening that out. But like anything legal it is all in the wording if it were named a free trade treaty there would be no problems. But this is a conunderum that has to be figured out as it has huge ramifications for trade between canada and the US. If it truley is not legal in the US the whole NAFTA deal is null and void. I can't say that i feel it is a bad thing. As we would have to go back to pre NAFTA trade laws and it would cause many US companies lose their holdings in canada, as prior NAFTA Us companies were not allowed to own more than 50% of any company or busienss. In essence canada's natural resorce sector would be up for grabs to the highest bidders in canada. would someone down there hurry up and prove NAFTA is a treaty.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
QUESTION said:
Sand H i was wrong and appoligize. I am not up on the history of alaska as i should be.
OT thanks for staightening that out. But like anything legal it is all in the wording if it were named a free trade treaty there would be no problems. But this is a conunderum that has to be figured out as it has huge ramifications for trade between canada and the US. If it truley is not legal in the US the whole NAFTA deal is null and void. I can't say that i feel it is a bad thing. As we would have to go back to pre NAFTA trade laws and it would cause many US companies lose their holdings in canada, as prior NAFTA Us companies were not allowed to own more than 50% of any company or busienss. In essence canada's natural resorce sector would be up for grabs to the highest bidders in canada. would someone down there hurry up and prove NAFTA is a treaty.

No problem. This NAFTA and WTO deals need to be brought out for inspection. Neither is any good for either one of us.
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
So even though Canadian meat might do well with U.S. consumers, Canadian livestock producers will face lower prices for their animals," says Hugh Lynch-Staunton, president of the CCA."
Isn't the reason we're in this industry is to make as good a living as we can....what part of this statement makes you guys think Canadian producers "should " support this :???: :???:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mrs.Greg said:
Sandhusker said:
So even though Canadian meat might do well with U.S. consumers, Canadian livestock producers will face lower prices for their animals," says Hugh Lynch-Staunton, president of the CCA."
Isn't the reason we're in this industry is to make as good a living as we can....what part of this statement makes you guys think Canadian producers "should " support this :???: :???:

Whats new Mrs. Greg-- Until Canadians wean themselves of the US hind teat and the US multinational Corporations that took your industry over -- and go develop some other export markets it will stay the same, COOL or no COOL..

AMI/Tyson/Cargil are just using CCA as their stooges now instead of NCBA since NCBA promised they wouldn't fight the M-COOL compromise anymore......Nothing new---CCA has been in the packers pockets for years.....
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Mrs.Greg said:
Sandhusker said:
So even though Canadian meat might do well with U.S. consumers, Canadian livestock producers will face lower prices for their animals," says Hugh Lynch-Staunton, president of the CCA."
Isn't the reason we're in this industry is to make as good a living as we can....what part of this statement makes you guys think Canadian producers "should " support this :???: :???:

Whats new Mrs. Greg-- Canadian animals have historically been lower priced...Until Canadians wean themselves of the US hind teat and the US multinational Corporations that took your industry over -- and go develop some other export markets it will stay the same, COOL or no COOL..

AMI/Tyson/Cargil are just using CCA as their stooges now instead of NCBA since NCBA promised they wouldn't fight the M-COOL compromise anymore......Nothing new---CCA has been in the packers pockets for years.....
You kind of skirted the issue OT,why should we support this? I'm sorry but supporting something that will lower our cattle prices even more sure doesn't seem to make sence to me.I don't want to hear your crap about us riding the US's skirt tails anymore,whos riding who's truly...look at the oil industry if it wasn't for Canadian oil where would you guys be?Your not in Kandahar alone,I don't get you guys arrogant attitudes at all,if it wasn't for Canadian support your country would almost be standing alone,for whatever the reason your country is THE least liked country in the world.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Remember Mrs. Greg-- for 12+ years we had to follow Canadian rules for shipping cattle into Canada and how they were to be handled...We didn't like it- and it negatively affected the price of our cattle.... But it was your country and your law made by your lawmakers...No different now- when we have rules on live cattle coming out of Canada and how they are to be handled- if you want to ship cattle into our country-- then be prepared to follow the laws made by our lawmakers....

No where does it say in NAFTA that you are forced to ship your cattle to the US--If you don't like our laws-- ship them to Europe- Australia- Japan- China--- you have a whole world out there......
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
So even though Canadian meat might do well with U.S. consumers, Canadian livestock producers will face lower prices for their animals," says Hugh Lynch-Staunton, president of the CCA."

Kato, Mrs.Greg...please explain to me how you can have increased demand for your finished product, but reduced demand for the raw product?

The ridiculousness of this thread is that Canadian beef crosses the border identified as Canadian beef...MCOOL requires that importers pass that information on to consumers. This is done by most of the countries around the world, but is illegal when the USA citizens want the same????
 

Kato

Well-known member
It's like this. I'll try and type slowly so you can understand it.

1. Increased demand comes from consumers in the U.S. discovering just how good Canadian beef is. Note: they pay their money to the grocery store who pays the packers.

Result: More money in Cargill's bank account. :!:

2. Decreased demand for the live cattle that make this beef happen. Make it difficult to process live Canadian cattle in the U.S. because of segregation and tracking the processed beef. (Porker, you can insert a commercial here... :wink: )

Solution: Build in a discount on the live cattle to cover the trouble, or as an alternative, buy them and process them in Canada where you have the slaughter facilities already, and have managed to just about drive your competition into the ground. You can get them cheaper either way.

result: More money in Cargill's bank account. :!:

result: More power to the big boys. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Just what R-Calf and friends have always worked so hard to achieve. :?

MCOOL is not illegal when you want to do it according to law. The question here is which law has precedence? Until we settle that, then it should wait. If it turns out to be prohibitive to ship live Canadian cattle south, then they will come in boxes. Of that you can be sure. The packers will make sure it happens, to the detriment of all of us.

Once it does become a fact, it will be impossible to put that genie back in the bottle.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker said:
Solution: Don't sell to Cargill or Tyson. Ever hear of a guy called Cam Ostercamp?

Yep-- Kato- How about killing them in all those new Canadian slaughter plants that you're talking about on Agriville as already closing....
Or is the old status quo riding on the US teat all the more ambitious Canadians can get..... :roll: :(
 

QUESTION

Well-known member
OT what plants are closing? :???: One proposed in MB never got built but the guts are ready to be setup in MB. is my understanding. As well alot of closed plants were up graded and reopened. The new plants i know of all are multispecies. The reasoning is long term viablity. You seem to think CLIP COOL is a beef thing it is pork,sheep, goat producers as well. Currently those other species have more at stake than beef. So they are pushing hard but you seem to put it out there that this is only a beef issue.
Could you please list the canadian packing plants that are shutting their doors and ceasing operations. As I looked on agriville and couldn't find any mention of a packing plants ceasing operations and closing. As for the canadian industry if US buyers didn't come up here and run canadian plants out of business years ago canadian cattle wouldn't have gone south. The main reason then was the devaluation of the canadian dollar, but now with the canadian dollar expected to go on par by the new year the US won't have the advantage. If you haven't noticed alot more Canadian visitors in the nothern states and the US has doubled the amount of goods that can leave the US to canada duty free it is the US government that asked canada for the help.
 

mwj

Well-known member
QUESTION said:
OT what plants are closing? :???: One proposed in MB never got built but the guts are ready to be setup in MB. is my understanding. As well alot of closed plants were up graded and reopened. The new plants i know of all are multispecies. The reasoning is long term viablity. You seem to think CLIP COOL is a beef thing it is pork,sheep, goat producers as well. Currently those other species have more at stake than beef. So they are pushing hard but you seem to put it out there that this is only a beef issue.
Could you please list the canadian packing plants that are shutting their doors and ceasing operations. As I looked on agriville and couldn't find any mention of a packing plants ceasing operations and closing. As for the canadian industry if US buyers didn't come up here and run canadian plants out of business years ago canadian cattle wouldn't have gone south. The main reason then was the devaluation of the canadian dollar, but now with the canadian dollar expected to go on par by the new year the US won't have the advantage. If you haven't noticed alot more Canadian visitors in the nothern states and the US has doubled the amount of goods that can leave the US to canada duty free it is the US government that asked canada for the help.

For crying out loud, don't bother OT by asking for ''facts'', those pesky things get in the way of telling a good story :lol:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
You couldn't have looked very hard- it is the number one thread :lol: :lol:
Here is the link:

http://www.agri-ville.com/cgi-bin/forums/viewThread.cgi?1186515738

Do you need help wiping too :???: :shock: :wink: :lol: :lol:

Here are the Slaughter Plants mentioned:

rkaiser
Looks likely that Ranchers Beef will be up for sale by receivers in the near future.

redcountry
FOR SALE
New beef plant, complete with $30 million debt,
Only two years old, hardly used.
apply ATLANTIC BEEF PRODUCTS P.E.I.

The gov has given until first of sept and than the plug is pulled!
anyone want to buy some shares cheep?
regards redcountry

Question Mark-- Looks like you should maybe spend more time looking at whats happening in your country than all your worries about what we in the US are doing :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Kato

Well-known member
:D :D :D ScoringAg? :D :D :D :wink: :wink: :wink:

Yes I have heard of Cam Ostercamp. I've been to hear him speak, and joined BIGC. 8) Also invested in the plant in Manitoba.

As for selling to Cargill or Tyson, I don't do that. I sell mostly feeders, and you can check my quote as to my opinion on what happens to them. You guys talk about packer concentration down there. You have no idea just what real concentration is. :!: We've been seeing it for years now. Here is how it worked in Manitoba. At one time we had three very large packers in our province. Burns in Brandon, Swifts and Canada Packers in Winnipeg. They were well established and had been there for many many years. Cattle prices were in a big down cycle at the time, and we were paying loan shark rates on our operating loans. Our bank was gouging us to the tune of a 20 percent interest rate. :shock: Farms were going under at an alarming rate, so the cattle had to go where the money was. To top it off, we had drought to make things really interesting.

Along comes Cargill to set up shop in High River.

For the first how ever many years it took to get the job done, they outbid the Manitoba plants on cattle. How it paid more to ship them to Alberta than kill them here, was the subject of much debate at the time. It actually did not pay, but Cargill wanted the competition out of the way, so they took a cut in order to do it.

It worked. One by one, our plants closed. Pretty soon Lakeside Packers in Brooks went under American control too, which had the cattle processing industry locked down nice and tight in Western Canada. That's the way they like it, and that's the way they are intending to keep it. They are doing their best to put the lid on local initiatives in the same way they got established here. They can outspend and outwait just about anyone they take a mind to.

This is not an easy fight to win, but we haven't given it up yet, not by a long shot. If it's so easy to tell us not to deal with them, then why are American cattlemen doing it? :? You have more alternate processers than we do. :shock: :shock:

They will find a way to work COOL in their favour too. It won't involve paying more for Canadian cattle, and it certainly won't involve paying more for American cattle. :!:

You can take that to the bank.
 

PORKER

Well-known member
ScoringAg? This would give Canadians a leg up on COOL...

As for COOL causing the big boys to leave Canada, I think it's going to have the opposite effect. It will be so much easier to kill here and ship in labelled boxes than try and segregate live cattle at a U.S. plant. If anything they'll get stronger here. It's the live cattle exports that will suffer, and with them, the live cattle prices, which will make it even more profitable for them to be killed here. And less profitable for us, since we'll be back to a captive supply situation.

On a brighter note, COOL could actually help a Canadian producer owned plant if they were smart enough to market well in the U.S. There are opportunities to be had for those who are willing to go after them.

ScoringAg?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
This article makes it sound like Canadians have NO confidence in their product :roll: Makes it sound like unless they can continue to use fraud to pass it off to consumers as a US product it won't sell...Old status quo of riding on the US cattlemans shirttails.... :( :mad:

Its hard to believe the outright arrogance of Canadian farmers/ranchers that think they should be able to tell US consumers how their meat products they buy in their own country should be labeled-- or what or how our US Congress can make laws in our country... :mad: :mad: :mad:

When 90+% of US consumers are asking for this labeling (partly because of the Canadian BSE issue)- so that they can have an honest informed choice on the meat products they buy-- this CCA (AMI/Packer Puppets) move may create a backlash that creates much more harm and damage to the Canadian beef and cattle industry.....

He also said he has been talking with the big chain grocery stores to have more local and Canadian products on the shelves to try to help Canadian producers of all types.

"I understand that they're willing to provide it," said Mr. Norlock. "But customers have to keep encouraging them to buy local - and the customers always get what they want."

Sounds like what the CCA and Pork folks should be doing is working for their own Canadian M-COOL-- because no matter how loyal your customers are they can't buy what isn't labeled and they can't identify....



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Country of Origin Labelling under fire
Joyce Cassin

Local News - Monday, August 13, 2007

Northumberland Today - Ontario, Canada



Country Of Origin Labelling (COOL) isn't likely to help Canada's beef, pork and lamb industries with sales south of the border if the provision, part of the U.S. Farm Bill, gets congressional approval.



"And if this is proposed it will violate NAFTA and WTO agreements already in place," said Lianne Appleby, communications manager for the Ontario Cattlemen's Association.



Currently, Canadian livestock shipped to the U.S. and slaughtered there is marked as U.S. origin. But under COOL, which could take effect September 30, 2008, only animals born, raised and slaughtered in the U.S. would be considered of U.S. origin. All others would be labelled according to their true country of origin, regardless of where they are slaughtered.



"Beef products of Canada will be labelled as such, and that presents marketing challenges for Canadian beef," Ms. Appleby said.



As currently enacted, COOL would dramatically reduce U.S. market access for Canadian pork and beef producers, stated a release from the Canadian Cattlemen's Association (CCA), which is actively lobbying Ottawa to take action against COOL.



"COOL proposes that cattle must be born and raised in the U.S. to be labelled U.S.," said Ms. Appleby. "That creates cost problems for U.S. retailers/packers who are currently sourcing Canadian beef, as COOL may make it more expensive for them to continue sourcing cattle from here. The U.S. government has previously acknowledged COOL's benefits are small and it has no relation to either human or animal safety."



Canadian producers anticipate significant difficulties selling hogs and cattle to U.S. slaughterhouses that would seek to minimize the cost of tracking meat from foreign animals. Loss of the U.S. market would trigger an adjustment period in which hogs and cattle intended for U.S. export would instead be sold in the Canadian market, driving down Canadian prices to the detriment of all producers here, the CCA stated.



Ms. Appleby also said the law contravenes U.S. obligations to avoid unnecessary obstacles to international trade, to avoid materially reducing the value of imported products, to administer its laws uniformly and reasonably, and not to nullify or impair benefits that accrue to other parties under the World Trade Organization.



The cattlemen want Ottawa to issue a public statement on COOL's potential to violate both NAFTA and WTO agreements, begin expressing concerns with trade legislators in Congress, as well as with the U.S. Department of Agriculture, and American trade representative.



Northumberland-Quinte West MP Rick Norlock said he is disappointed the U.S. is continuing on this track.



"It's my personal belief that this is just one more step in trying to close the border to Canadian beef and increase the price of their beef," he said.



Mr. Norlock said it's a "small minor roadblock" and they plan to work with the Canadian industry and other allies who would be negatively affected, if COOL passes.



He also said he has been talking with the big chain grocery stores to have more local and Canadian products on the shelves to try to help Canadian producers of all types.



"I understand that they're willing to provide it," said Mr. Norlock. "But customers have to keep encouraging them to buy local - and the customers always get what they want."



northumberlandtoday.com
 

QUESTION

Well-known member
OT check the facts Atlanic beef has restructured and is not going anywhere, the problem was they wanted more money from the PEI government and did not get it. But since the restructuring they do not need more money and expect to turn a profit in the new year.
As for ranchers beef in Ab. the partners include Cor Van Ray. NUff said they won't be going under any time soon. They may be bought out a big US packer. But they won't be closing the doors anytime soon. :roll:
There was also mention on the same thread of Lakside and Cargill closing their plants :roll: . I don't see that happening either. As that would mean big US packers giving up huge profits. And we all know US packers hate huge profits. :roll: :lol:
Nice try though. But next time deal in facts not rumors. I asked for where plants closed and ceased operations not rumors.
I know facts aren't your strong suit. :roll:
 

cedardell

Well-known member
China labels all their products, why can't the canucks label theirs? Will one of you canucks explain why you can't label your beef? Are you trying to disguise it?
 

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