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Consumers and Antibiotics

Ben H

Well-known member
I'd like to find some real data on consumer demand for antibiotic use. There are some folks raising without the use of any antibiotics and then there are some that do what I do and only use them for treatment. I'm under the impression this all got started because of direct fed antibiotics, not treatments.
Sure you can remove treated cattle from the program, but this also leads some producers to not treat an animal that normaly would.

Again, I'd like to see some polls if they exist on demand between direct fed and therapeutic.
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Ben, I'm not sure if you'll find any hard data, but if you do I'd like to see it as well. There are some companies who swear that "fully organic" (or pick whatever term they want to use this week) is worth its weight in gold, while others swear there isn't enough demand to make it worthwhile.

What I do know is that I don't have an all natural beef packer anywhere near me that would pay sufficient dividends to make it worth my while to skip Ivomec or vaccinations (which some packers allow, and others do not).

Rod
 

John SD

Well-known member
I've always been under the impression that "all natural" and "drug free" meant that the cattle were raised with no antibiotics, no implants, and no ionophores like Rumensin or Bovatec in their feed. I'm not sure about urea if it disqualifies the cattle or not.

Parasite control and vaccinations are not only allowed but strongly encouraged. Any time I am at the sale barn when a batch of calves go through the ring the auctioneer goes through the list of vaccinations on the "shot sheet" and then announces the cattle are "drug free"!

My calves never had any implants, a scour pill or an antibiotic shot. I gave them Vision 7 at birth, Vision 7 Somnus at branding time, and another 7 way along with the complete spectrum of mlv vaccines in the fall shots.

The only thing about my calves that might not be considered "all natural" is they did have access to 22% protein lick barrels that contained 10% urea.
 

Jason

Well-known member
This a tough one.

Normally I would say it is possible to never touch a needle at weaning, but I have sure been tempted with the calves from the trader type cows I have this year.

My blacks get the small snotty nose but never miss a beat at the feed bunk. These other calves are looking tough and I have almost treated them...but the weather has turned nice and I am waiting it out. So far so good.

I am keeping them without drugs just in case there is a better market for them, but they can still go traditionally.

In my opinion the plethera of vaccines that calves get isn't helping beef quality. That is one of the few differences I can see between ranch raised and feedlot calves. I wish I knew for sure.
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Unfortunately, in this day and age, as long as a herd remains open to outside animals, I can't imagine being able to get away without at least 7 way vaccinations. Even with a closed herd, you'll lose a couple to blackleg (depending on your area of course) or to something like Anthrax. If a business venture wanted completely natural beef, with absolutely no vaccinations, they'd have to pay me a very large premium.

Rod
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Antibiotic use in itself is not that bad, I don't think. The theraputic (continuous) use of antibiotics because of the stress of large numbers of factory farmed cattle or chickens is the problem.

Occasional use of antibiotics does not necessarily breed antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria. Normally the competition from other pathogens and even bacteria in the same group will take care of the really bad bacteria. If you suppress these pathogens with antibiotics, you leave room for the "bad bugs" to flourish. Occasional use will not do this. Over use will.

Vaccines are altogether different and have no effect on the bacterial balance. Therefore vaccines, which are primarily used to get the animal's own system to identify and attack the bad pathogen or virus, does not have the same affect as theraputic use of antibiotics when it comes to tipping the balance in the favor of the "bad" bugs.

Some people have probably over reacted to the occasional use of antibiotics because they just don't trust that it is occasional. They are worried about the effects that come with theraputic (continuous) use of low level antibiotics in the food supply.

They have a point.

There are cattlemen who do nothing to their cattle as far as vaccines go. They rely on the animal's own system to take care of bad pathogens instead of unnatural help from humans. I don't know if this system would work where bangs or other strains of infection were prevalent in the environment.
 

Ben H

Well-known member
I started this discussion in response to the cover article in the newest The Stockman Grass Famer titled Whole Fods Market Wants orth American RaisedGrassfed Beef In Their Stores Now.
Sounds good to me, there is a store in Portland, ME 25-30 minutes away. I checked their website and they advertise no antiobiotics, ever. The same goes with another brand from this area, Wolfneck Farm. Both markets would prohibit the use of any antibiotics as well as your hormones, ionophores and direct fed antibiotics.
I've never heard of anyone not allowing vaccinations, it just doesn't make sense.
You have two issues with antibiotics that aren't an issue with vaccines.
1. Residues and allergic reactions by the consumer
2. No using them correcty, overusing and letting the resistant bugs prevail.[/list]
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
I've never comprehended the no vaccine rule either, unless some groups are concerned by certain carriers within the vaccines. No antibiotic use is easy to attain, as 99% of my animals never need to be touched with antibiotics of any type, and those that are, are recorded. Unfortunately, I don't have a reliable market for the natural beef, so my "natural" calves usually just end up at the barn.

Rod
 

Jason

Well-known member
I just try to raise calves that I would eat.

I use the 8 way vaccine on calves but nothing else.

Some of my wondering comes from reading I have done with human vaccines, their benefits vs drawbacks.

I have no scientific evidence that says they should be banned from natural production, nor would I suggest anyone else just dump the program they are using.

I have always experimented a bit with my own experience, seeing what is and isn't needed. I believe a strong healthy immune system in cattle and people is most important.

I know I am not alone in my wondering about vaccines, I have talked with others that have annecdotal evidence similar to mine.

I think all producers just need to be sure they are getting the benefits they think they are out of any treatment they give.
 

PORKER

Well-known member
Here is a link to grassfed; http://www.eatwild.com/products/index.html

Whole Foods Market Wants American Raised Grassfed Beef In Their Stores Now.
There are some folks raising without the use of any antibiotics and then there are some that do what I do and only use them for treatment. BenH
 

William Kanitz

Well-known member
Story Comment;
Congress needs to create a single food-safety agency, and to invest that agency with greater authority (such as the ability to recall food from the market and to penalize companies that produce contaminated products) than existing regulatory agencies have. Senator Richard Durbin, D-Ill., Representative Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn., and CSPI have long pushed for legislation which would create a single food safety agency and give that agency greater powers. The Safe Food Act of 2005 would consolidate the activities of the dozen or so agencies concerned with food safety, labeling, and ingredient approvals.
With a Majority in Congress changes will happen fast.
 
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