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Contaminated US Feed

Bill

Well-known member
Huge feed recall due to mammalian protein

by Pete Hisey on 8/8/2006 for Meatingplace.com

The Food and Drug Administration announced two recalls, one for 27 million pounds of feed produced in Michigan and the other an unknown amount of feed produced in Kentucky. Both were suspected of being adulterated with ruminant or mammalian protein, including ruminant meat and bone meal in the second recall.

Vita Plus Corp., Gagetown, Mich., has recalled 27,694,240 pounds of dairy feed produced between February of 2005 and June 16, 2006, because it is believed it was contaminated with mammalian protein. The feed was distributed in Michigan and the recall is complete.

Burkmann Feeds LLC, Glasgow, Ky., has recalled an unknown amount of custom feed because it contains an ingredient called Pro-Lak, which may contain ruminant-derived meat and bone meal. The Burkmann feed was distributed in Kentucky.

Well Oldtimer, here's an example of the US's stellar feed ban. I wouldn't bring it up but you and your R-Laff cronies continually point at Canada's failings in an attempt to further bury Canadian producers so I want to make sure you have the opportunity to do the same to your fellow US ranchers. R-Calf being a "national org" genuinely concerned with food safety and all. :roll:

Notice the date goes back to feed produced in Februrary '05 so we know damned well they won't get it back. That is pobably why that recall is now mysteriosly complete. :lol: :lol: :lol:

In the Kentucky recall they don't even know how much was contaminated feed was produced.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Strange how when a BSE case if found in Canada, we all get told how the system is working, but when we find bad feed and recall it, it's a different story. :roll:

You need to read the story again. It didn't say they didn't know how much feed was produced - the author of the story didn't know how much was recalled. The words "recalled" and "produced" have different meanings down here.
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
What I find interesting is how RCalf swears that US beef is definitely safer than Canadian, all the while you have massive feed ban violations going on. As Bill mentioned, these violations occured last year, so much of that feed will already be in the food chain. I wish the USDA would at least follow the same testing protocols, including percentage tested as Canada does, just so we could answer the question of whether US beef truly is safer.

Rod
 

Bill

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Strange how when a BSE case if found in Canada, we all get told how the system is working, but when we find bad feed and recall it, it's a different story. :roll:

You need to read the story again. It didn't say they didn't know how much feed was produced - the author of the story didn't know how much was recalled. The words "recalled" and "produced" have different meanings down here.

Do you think R-Clan will issue an OFFICIAL press release on this huge amount of contaminated US feed like they did about everything Canada has done wrong? Just so we make sure we understand their true position on it.

After all isn't it aLL about food safety and herd health to the R-Clan folks so I don't see why not.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Bill said:
Sandhusker said:
Strange how when a BSE case if found in Canada, we all get told how the system is working, but when we find bad feed and recall it, it's a different story. :roll:

You need to read the story again. It didn't say they didn't know how much feed was produced - the author of the story didn't know how much was recalled. The words "recalled" and "produced" have different meanings down here.

Do you think R-Clan will issue an OFFICIAL press release on this huge amount of contaminated US feed like they did about everything Canada has done wrong? Just so we make sure we understand their true position on it.

After all isn't it aLL about food safety and herd health to the R-Clan folks so I don't see why not.

Once again, Bill, if you've been paying attention, you would already understand R-CALF's position on feed.

Maybe R-CALF needs to put out a release warning of Canadians who go to idiotic lengths to try to undermine R-CALF?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Bill said:
Sandhusker said:
Strange how when a BSE case if found in Canada, we all get told how the system is working, but when we find bad feed and recall it, it's a different story. :roll:

You need to read the story again. It didn't say they didn't know how much feed was produced - the author of the story didn't know how much was recalled. The words "recalled" and "produced" have different meanings down here.

Do you think R-Clan will issue an OFFICIAL press release on this huge amount of contaminated US feed like they did about everything Canada has done wrong? Just so we make sure we understand their true position on it.

After all isn't it aLL about food safety and herd health to the R-Clan folks so I don't see why not.

Bill-Rod- Jason-- What has the Canuck cattlemans groups done? Have they asked CFIA to clarify and be open with the BC and Alberta investigations...

A couple months ago CFIA comes out with a statement that they believe a contracted trucking firms' failure to clean trucks may be the cause of some of the connected BSE cases-- then along with the investigation they issue a statement that "more cases are now expected to be found in all of the western provinces"- but give no details...And as of yet I've seen them issue no details...Is this being open and transparent :???:

But what really bothers me is I've yet to hear a Canadian cattle group or a Canadian producer that asks why and what info the investigation revealed to lead them to the assumption that it was more widespread and more extended...Doesn't anyone up their care? Are you so overwhelmed by the monthly new positive that you lost track? Or do you just blindly follow what the government tells you- damn the safety as long as we can get our precious border reopened?

I laugh when I watch how Canucks think USDA is a flawed organization- condemn and chastise everything they do-- except when they are making decisions favorable to Canuck producers reopening the border & being allowed to again shirttail on the US producer .... :wink: :lol:
 

Bill

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Bill said:
Sandhusker said:
Strange how when a BSE case if found in Canada, we all get told how the system is working, but when we find bad feed and recall it, it's a different story. :roll:

You need to read the story again. It didn't say they didn't know how much feed was produced - the author of the story didn't know how much was recalled. The words "recalled" and "produced" have different meanings down here.

Do you think R-Clan will issue an OFFICIAL press release on this huge amount of contaminated US feed like they did about everything Canada has done wrong? Just so we make sure we understand their true position on it.

After all isn't it aLL about food safety and herd health to the R-Clan folks so I don't see why not.

Bill-Rod- Jason-- What has the Canuck cattlemans groups done? Have they asked CFIA to clarify and be open with the BC and Alberta investigations...

A couple months ago CFIA comes out with a statement that they believe a contracted trucking firms' failure to clean trucks may be the cause of some of the connected BSE cases-- then along with the investigation they issue a statement that "more cases are now expected to be found in all of the western provinces"- but give no details...And as of yet I've seen them issue no details...Is this being open and transparent :???:

But what really bothers me is I've yet to hear a Canadian cattle group or a Canadian producer that asks why and what info the investigation revealed to lead them to the assumption that it was more widespread and more extended...Doesn't anyone up their care? Are you so overwhelmed by the monthly new positive that you lost track? Or do you just blindly follow what the government tells you- damn the safety as long as we can get our precious border reopened?

I laugh when I watch how Canucks think USDA is a flawed organization- condemn and chastise everything they do-- except when they are making decisions favorable to Canuck producers reopening the border & being allowed to again shirttail on the US producer .... :wink: :lol:
So typical Oldtimer. Turn a post of US inadequacy into something against Canadians and then later in your post it's alright for you to pick and choose moments to fall in and out of favour with USDA but no one else?

damn the safety as long as we can get our precious border reopened?

How about changing that to "damn the facts as long as we can keep our precious border closed?"
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
A couple months ago CFIA comes out with a statement that they believe a contracted trucking firms' failure to clean trucks may be the cause of some of the connected BSE cases-- then along with the investigation they issue a statement that "more cases are now expected to be found in all of the western provinces"- but give no details...And as of yet I've seen them issue no details...Is this being open and transparent :???:

Ummmm, OT, if you had read the report closer, your questions were answered in it. The CFIA believes there will be additional cases based on the number of locations that the contracted trucking company shipped feed to. There was no further action to be taken, except a decision on what penalties to assess, and of course that will fall into the hands of an overworked court system.

And as Bill mentioned, you're diverting from intial post. And I notice that no-one answered my implied question in my post: How can anyone believe that the US herd is safer overall than the Canadian herd when you have massive feedban violations occuring on the scale in which it occured?

Rod
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Oldtimer said:
A couple months ago CFIA comes out with a statement that they believe a contracted trucking firms' failure to clean trucks may be the cause of some of the connected BSE cases-- then along with the investigation they issue a statement that "more cases are now expected to be found in all of the western provinces"- but give no details...And as of yet I've seen them issue no details...Is this being open and transparent :???:

Ummmm, OT, if you had read the report closer, your questions were answered in it. The CFIA believes there will be additional cases based on the number of locations that the contracted trucking company shipped feed to. There was no further action to be taken, except a decision on what penalties to assess, and of course that will fall into the hands of an overworked court system.

And as Bill mentioned, you're diverting from intial post. And I notice that no-one answered my implied question in my post: How can anyone believe that the US herd is safer overall than the Canadian herd when you have massive feedban violations occuring on the scale in which it occured?

Rod

Rod- Did they really answer? I have not seen any details of how far that trucking firm operated, for how many feed companies, for how many years, and when did they quit...Were they hauling contaminated feed to the 4 or 5 western provinces (which ones) still up to the day they were discovered :???: To me there is a lot missing in not having the details....
And it appears to me Canadians don't care- which bothers me- wondering why we would want to export from a country who's own producers don't want answers.....I would think a worthwhile Canadian cattlemans group would be asking questions- demanding answers-- but I don't see it happening....Canada just wants it to all silently go away- but it isn't going to.......

The reason the US feedban may have worked much better is that the US was not importing in European cows to the extent Canada was- thereby not getting the massive contamination Canada did, like from the 93 Saler and all its herdmates that mostly went to slaughter... I remember back in my AI days that most of the continentals (simmi, limmi) I was looking at to breed to were all in Canada- because the US would not allow them into the US...

I agree our feedban- and Canadas- is not strict enough....Canada has already admitted theirs is flawed, altho they still refuse to tighten it any for a year :roll: -- I think we should be following the feedban proposed by the independent scientists and the rules now accepted by most of the world on importing, exporting, and SRM's whereby the magic number is 20 months and not 30....Canada's last positive was getting dangerously close to that magic 30 number....

And we should maintain what our own (USDA's) TSE committee said was our strongest safeguard-- Not importing beef or cattle from known BSE countries....At least until they have a better handle on what we are facing...
 

Murgen

Well-known member
And we should maintain what our own (USDA's) TSE committee said was our strongest safeguard-- Not importing beef or cattle from known BSE countries....At least until they have a better handle on what we are facing...

Great idea, use your own rules for importations and then negotiate on export trade using world standards. How's that been working for your exports so far?

Talk about switching horses!
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Rod- Did they really answer? I have not seen any details of how far that trucking firm operated, for how many feed companies, for how many years, and when did they quit...Were they hauling contaminated feed to the 4 or 5 western provinces (which ones) still up to the day they were discovered :???: To me there is a lot missing in not having the details....

The report which was posted on here was a summary report, and it also said that the investigation was ongoing. You say that Canadians aren't concerned, yet various cattle groups have lambasted the government about our feed ban and have sited this specific example when wanting stricter measurements taken. Just because you have haven't seen the reports posted on the internet, doesn't mean its not happening.

And when they say western provinces, there are only four and from the summary article I saw, I'd believe the feed was delivered into ALL FOUR. And does it really matter to which mills? There is live animal testing protocol. If the cattle have contracted BSE, we'll catch it at testing time since we have superior testing protocols than the USDAs. Or should we simply slaughter all the animals who ate that infected feed?

Oldtimer said:
The reason the US feedban may have worked much better is that the US was not importing in European cows to the extent Canada was- thereby not getting the massive contamination Canada did, like from the 93 Saler and all its herdmates that mostly went to slaughter... I remember back in my AI days that most of the continentals (simmi, limmi) I was looking at to breed to were all in Canada- because the US would not allow them into the US...

Horseshit. 10 - 15 years ago the US was importing large numbers of exotic animals from all over the globe. The very breeds you mention (Simm, Limo plus a whole host of British stock) were first imported into the US long before they ever made their way into Canada.

Oldtimer said:
already admitted theirs is flawed, altho they still refuse to tighten it any for a year :roll:

Why roll your eyes? Your USDA hasn't even admitted that your feedban is inadequate yet. :roll:

Oldtimer said:
And we should maintain what our own (USDA's) TSE committee said was our strongest safeguard-- Not importing beef or cattle from known BSE countries....At least until they have a better handle on what we are facing...

Do you not understand how hypocritical the above statement is? You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If you truly feel that exports should stop until a firmer handle on BSE/TSEs is established, then please, contact your government and ask them to quit exporting your beef. If anyone doesn't have a decent handle on BSE, its the USA. You don't even know what the true extent of your infection is. Until then, if you want to export, then quit with the hyprocrisy and realize that you also must also allow imports.

As an aside, I likely wouldn't have much to say on these topics had the RCalf head guy not made comments about unsafe Canadian beef. If he would have kept his trap shut, or at the very least, apologized for his completely inaccurate statement, I likely would have let the politicians battle it out.

Rod
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Rod, "As an aside, I likely wouldn't have much to say on these topics had the RCalf head guy not made comments about unsafe Canadian beef. If he would have kept his trap shut, or at the very least, apologized for his completely inaccurate statement, I likely would have let the politicians battle it out."

I don't think the statement was inaccurate and any apology needed. I mean, look at the big picture. Half of your cases are post ban, and your last case was a 4 year old - you're not supposed to be finding 4 year olds with BSE up there if you've got a handle on the disease. How many cattle 4 years and older are slaughtered up there? If you've cattle that young showing enough symptoms to be tested, how many that age and older are being processed without testing?

Also, I'm not convinced that SRM removal totally eliminates BSE from the carcass. To say that the disease enters the body orally and then is transmitted via the blood stream to SRMs but not not muscle tissue doesn't make sense.

There ARE legitimate safety concerns about your beef. (In all honesty, there are concerns about our beef, too.) There are just too many questions that need to be answered with your beef. We don't need it, we need more answers, and US producers stand a potentially devestating loss if we import problems - there's no reason for US producers to be in favor of taking your beef and a list of reasons not to.
 

S.S.A.P.

Well-known member
Oldtimer:
"The reason the US feedban may have worked much better is that the US was not importing in European cows to the extent Canada was- thereby not getting the massive contamination Canada did, "

"DEPARTMENT OF FOOD AND AGRICULTURE
1220 N Street, Suite 409
Sacramento, CA 95814
BACKGROUND SHEET
Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy Management Plan
March 2001

-BSE emerged in the United Kingdom (UK) in 1986
-496 UK cattle imported into the US between 1981 and 1989, and 38 German and two Belgium cattle imported before 1997.

For further information, please contact the CDFA Office of Public Affairs at (916) 654-0462.

------------------------------

USA AND CANADA IMPORTS OF UK CATTLE BETWEEN 1981 - 1989

USA = 496

CANADA = 198

*add 14 to 198 as last UK import to Canada, 14 in 1990

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/sci/ahra/bseris/bserise.pdf


...... So if Canada imported 1 million UK cattle ... the US could have imported 7 million UK cattle and still have been "okay" (still less on a percentage/ratio basis). :roll: :wink:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
What would you Canadians do if the shoe was on the other foot- and you believed the US cattle were a much higher risk of disease?

Shucky darn- thats right, we know what Canucks would do-- on diseases that aren't even a human health concern they slap a 10+ year test and quarantine restriction on the border and cry "ALL US CATTLE ARE DISEASED"..... :wink:


Now that they have a much higher risk of a disease that not only is dangerous to the US herd, and US beef industry, but is also a human health issue- they yell foul when we in the US ask for some guarantees, answers, and proof.....Laughable :lol: :lol:
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Shucky darn- thats right, we know what Canucks would do-- on diseases that aren't even a human health concern they slap a 10+ year test and quarantine restriction on the border and cry "ALL US CATTLE ARE DISEASED"..... :wink:

Big difference between blue tongue and BSE restrictions OT. We quarantined the one SMALL area of Canada that was proven to have it and never allowed their animals to move outside the quarantine zone. On the other hand, the US refused to quarantine the few zones that it had, potentially putting the entire US herd at risk, and by extension, Canada's herd.

BSE on the other hand is in both the US AND Canada, and even though you won't admit it, the US herd has every bit as much of it as Canada does. The only problem is that you guys won't test for it so we can have hard evidence to show you.

Rod
 

Bill

Well-known member
Uh oh !!!!!! SSAP came up with facts that proved you were wrong once again huh Oldtimer so time to spin and divert and try and laugh your way out of it?

It makes one wonder if you just don't know any better or are intentionally trying to mislead anyone who will listen. I think most of us know the answer.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Oldtimer said:
Shucky darn- thats right, we know what Canucks would do-- on diseases that aren't even a human health concern they slap a 10+ year test and quarantine restriction on the border and cry "ALL US CATTLE ARE DISEASED"..... :wink:

Big difference between blue tongue and BSE restrictions OT. We quarantined the one SMALL area of Canada that was proven to have it and never allowed their animals to move outside the quarantine zone. On the other hand, the US refused to quarantine the few zones that it had, potentially putting the entire US herd at risk, and by extension, Canada's herd.

BSE on the other hand is in both the US AND Canada, and even though you won't admit it, the US herd has every bit as much of it as Canada does. The only problem is that you guys won't test for it so we can have hard evidence to show you.

Rod

Yep Rod -Big difference...Anaplas/Bluetongue is found in only a small part of the US- affects only cattle and sheep- and does not kill humans...BSE is a danger to cripple an entire industry- is being shown to be spread thruout western Canada- and is a danger to human life...And you scream that we want to keep anymore risk of such a disease out :???:

Rod- I will never forget that Canadians said that cows running fenceline apart from Canuck cows were ALL DISEASED- and even after millions $ in testing showed Canada was wrong, they refused to drop the barrier- until their teat was in a wringer and it was costing them bucks and they need to kiss hinny- then the seriousness of/and the disease seems to magically disappear :wink: .....

If the US cattle herd is now so diseased with BSE-- why did CFIA just open the border for all US cattle- seedstock and all?....They must accept the USDA's evaluation that we have virtually no BSE--Or is Canada so full of BSE it won't make any matter? Or did the packers/AMI tell them to accept the evalutation and open it?.....

And Canucks won't question the CFIA's opening because it might hold up the Canadians ability to get back on the US gravy train again....

Canucks not questioning that border opening- especially since the US just found out about the "atypical" BSE, that they have no idea why is caused or how is transmitted, causes me wonder.....

Sounds to me like the science of economics is again overriding true science, herd health , and consumer safety...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Bill said:
Uh oh !!!!!! SSAP came up with facts that proved you were wrong once again huh Oldtimer so time to spin and divert and try and laugh your way out of it?

It makes one wonder if you just don't know any better or are intentionally trying to mislead anyone who will listen. I think most of us know the answer.

Bill- I don't buy those figures...I'd like to see all imports of all live cattle from every country...I know that when we in the states could not get access to live imported breeds, and were having to breed up to purebreds--- Canada was bringing them in from somewhere...Almost all the semen I used for several years (60's- early 70's) when AIing for people were Canadian because the breeds were not available in the US....

Altho its been so long ago that I can't remember how and thru what country they were bringing them in...I do remember I believe it was the Charolais that came into Mexico- and then thru the next generation was allowed to be imported to the US- but was later shut off because of FMD...Almost all the Char's and other continentals being used for years for AI were in Canada...

This is from a Charolais website:

Until the mid-1960s, all the Charolais in Mexico, the United States and Canada were descendants of this initial Pugibet herd. Due to the limited number of original animals and the import restrictions which were in place, they have been crossed on other cattle in an upgrading process. Because of the use of the upgrading process few of the Charolais cattle currently found in the United State are of pure French breeding. With the lightening of the import restrictions in Canada in the mid-1960's fullblood Charolais were again imported from France. This allowed for the importation of new bloodlines from France. This meant new genetic material for tightly-bred Charolais pedigrees of the time. Several breeding herds were estabilished in Canada, as well as the island of Eleuthera, in the Bahamas. Japan, England and Ireland also imported purebred Charolais directly from France. Offspring from these herds were later imported to the United States.
 

Murgen

Well-known member
What would you Canadians do if the shoe was on the other foot- and you believed the US cattle were a much higher risk of disease?

Canada and the world already believes that. How do we deal with it? We negotiate trade in an upfront and honest manner, based on proven science, by Global standards.

How does the US deal with it? Hiding the truth, hypocricy regarding trade negotiations, and building on the level of trust that the rest of the world has for the US.

How's that working out for ya?
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
I think what OT is pointing out is that many of you Canadians have been very vocal on the US BSE situation - and very critical condemning our testing and voicing extreme doubt that we were being truthful, testing correctly, hiding cases, etc.... Now you're taking our beef - this same beef that you were questioning yesterday - without a squak. What changed your minds?
 
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