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Contaminated US Feed

Tam

Well-known member
ranch hand said:
It goes into effect July 12, 2007 and then they will give the feed mills another six months after that to comply. So in all reality it is a year and a half until it is law.

WHEN will the US expanded feed ban be put into effect ranch hand?????? and How long will it take for the US system to comply? Please remember this thread is about feed being made in the US from a product that was ban 8 years ago. :wink:
 

Tam

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
Tam said:
ranch hand said:
Tam your feed ban doesn't take effect for another year.

Like Murgen said alot of feed mills already comply but I have to ask you, ours will be manditory in a year
when do you expect the US will have a manditory feed ban including those things Canada has now? and when do you think your industry will comply?

How many cattle will be infected in that year ? Canada needs to have the feed ban in place "NOW"!!!.................good luck

How many in the US will be infected by this contaminated feed that was made and shipped? AND how many more will be infected before you close your loopholes? The USDA and FDA announced the closing of the chicken litter loophole in Jan. 2004 but have they done anything about actually closing it? And how long will it take to get the US industry to comply if they are still making feed from a product, 8 years after it was ban?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam- How can you complain about the US's feedban when it seems to have worked/be working-- Its Canada that is finding the Mad Cow of the Month.......I'd think you would start worrying about who's stinking up your own back yard first- and cleaning up your own mess- before you try to lecture people on what they should or should not do.... :wink: :lol: :lol:
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Tam- How can you complain about the US's feedban when it seems to have worked/be working-- Its Canada that is finding the Mad Cow of the Month.......I'd think you would start worrying about who's stinking up your own back yard first- and cleaning up your own mess- before you try to lecture people on what they should or should not do.... :wink: :lol: :lol:

WE TEST TO FIND OLDTIMER :wink:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam said:
Oldtimer said:
Tam- How can you complain about the US's feedban when it seems to have worked/be working-- Its Canada that is finding the Mad Cow of the Month.......I'd think you would start worrying about who's stinking up your own back yard first- and cleaning up your own mess- before you try to lecture people on what they should or should not do.... :wink: :lol: :lol:

WE TEST TO FIND OLDTIMER :wink:

Should be about due to again-eh :???: I think I went long and took 73 months old in this months pool... :wink:
 

don

Well-known member
so ot you believe nothing of what usda says except when they say there is really no bse in the american herd when all logic and objective evidence says the opposite and your testing program has no respect throughout the rest of the world? i expected with you being an ex-lawman, etc. that you would have had more respect for facts and evidence. slipping?????
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
don said:
so ot you believe nothing of what usda says except when they say there is really no bse in the american herd when all logic and objective evidence says the opposite and your testing program has no respect throughout the rest of the world? i expected with you being an ex-lawman, etc. that you would have had more respect for facts and evidence. slipping?????

don- Thats not what I said.....

Apparently you don't believe or trust the USDA... Then you must agree that R-CALF was correct in filing suit against USDA asking for them to prove their BSE facts and BSE policy- eh?
 

don

Well-known member
i think you've got usda pretty well pegged but then you should be asking them to run an honest testing program (not just lots of rigged ineffective testing). you like to give them credibility on those numbers but nothing else. you're just as selective as anybody. thought you'd want to dig up all the facts.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
don said:
i think you've got usda pretty well pegged but then you should be asking them to run an honest testing program (not just lots of rigged ineffective testing). you like to give them credibility on those numbers but nothing else. you're just as selective as anybody. thought you'd want to dig up all the facts.

We been asking don- they just aren't listening...

And when arguing with people that are selective ( Tam )- everythings on the table-- she doesn't go with facts much... Sad thing is that there is very little about this whole BSE issue that is based on sound fact...

Too bad the court case couldn't have continued and we could have seen an objective independent ruling on the evidence and facts related to the whole BSE issue...But for some reason USDA/NCBA/AMI/CFIA etal did not want that evidence reviewed....
 

Tam

Well-known member
Can you please explain to us how the CFIA stopped the evidence being heard in a US Federal court room in Montana. From what is really known the CFIA asked to testify but were denied that right.

And facts according to you and R-CALF Oldtimer only matter when it comes to Canadian BSE what about the facts we are asking for. What is the true pevalence of BSE in your herd and where did all the contaminated feed that was recalled over the last month go? Come on Oldtimer we want facts where did over 800 truck loads of Contaminated feed go? No name calling JUST GOOD OLD US FACTS. :wink:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam said:
Can you please explain to us how the CFIA stopped the evidence being heard in a US Federal court room in Montana. From what is really known the CFIA asked to testify but were denied that right.

Tam- I guess I should have just said Canucks (altho it appears as tho CFIA/USDA are feeding out of the same trough ) as it was Canadian producer groups that filed the briefs supporting the USDA and fighting to keep it from going to trial and the evidence to be examined....

And facts according to you and R-CALF Oldtimer only matter when it comes to Canadian BSE what about the facts we are asking for. What is the true pevalence of BSE in your herd and where did all the contaminated feed that was recalled over the last month go? Come on Oldtimer we want facts where did over 800 truck loads of Contaminated feed go? No name calling JUST GOOD OLD US FACTS. :wink:

Looks to me like Canada already made their decision and bought everything the USDA said since they opened the border to all US cattle/beef (including seedstock)...Have you questioned CFIA on that move Tam?

The only quantatative and qualitative facts available are those that have been supplied by USDA- but on the same note, Canucks fight tooth and nail against us, when some down here have asked USDA to prove those facts-- just because it might upset the timetable for your ability to get back on the gravy train- so don't go telling me you want to see facts...

One fact that is quite apparent is that almost monthly lately Canada has shown that they have a bigger and bigger problem.....
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer were any Canadians (that is C-A-N-A-D-I-A-N-S) allowed to testify to present our side of the side story? or we all DENIED access to those court procegures by Cebull? Who really didn't care to hear all the evidence and who wrote his ruling word for word from R-CALF briefs? Which was later appealed on EVERY COUNT. So how could any CANADIAN have stopped the Montana court if there really was a case?

And YES oldtimer I have emailed the CFIA about the new rules several times but not because I think we are unsafe from excepting your cattle and beef as I believe our system will catch anything that crosses that border. But I did contact them as I think the Canadian border should open only to those things that the US is willing to except from Canada as we are in the same risk catagory and if they expect to sell your cattle to us then they should have to prove they BELIEVE in the science you are using to sell it to us. :? But by not openning to ours they are saying they don't believe the science so WHY SHOULD WE,OR JAPAN OR KOREA?

And again we have shown only one thing that being we are willing to do the proper testing no matter what we find Oldtimer. The US industry has proved the opposite, what are you hiding and what will you be hiding in about 4 years when the effects of this contaminated feed start showing up???? :wink:
 

ranch hand

Well-known member
Tam said:
ranch hand said:
Tam said:
We trust our system to catch them Oldtimer. UNLIKE YOU with the US system. :wink: If you had confidence in YOUR SYSTEM you would trust it to catch any and all BSE.even US ones.

What you have to remember is our trucking company violations were four to five years ago showing up now (before we know we had BSE). Canada closed that loophole as we now have rules that ban this stuff in ALL feed. Your feed manufacturers violations were, oh gee Oldtimer, LAST YEAR THROUGH THIS JUNE 2006 (after you knew you have BSE in your native herd). What is the chances of finding a few post feed ban positives in say about 4 to 5 years. Don't worry though, You are probably safe Oldtimer as the new testing quota the USDA announced will not likely find them. Deny, and Don't look Don't Find is the way you survive. :roll:
You DENY the problems in your system while pointing fingers at Canada and the USDA doesn't look for the result of your problems, while threatening other countries to take your beef. Nice system but it may have something to do with the credibility problem your industry has. Deny that problem too Oldtimer :wink:
And personally I would rather they tell consumers there MAY be more found at least then they know we ARE LOOKING and there will be no surprizes as there would be if we told them we will never find BSE again. Only leading one to believe that WE WON"T BE LOOKING LIKE THE US.

Tam your feed ban doesn't take effect for another year.

Like Murgen said alot of feed mills already comply but I have to ask you, ours will be manditory in a year when do you expect the US will have a manditory feed ban including those things Canada has now? and when do you think your industry will comply?

Tam...R-calf is working on getting this bans in place. Another cattle org, seems to be slowing it up with the packers. It needs to be done yesterday. Why are you guys waiting a year and a half to make it law. I say both need to do it right away.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam said:
Oldtimer were any Canadians (that is C-A-N-A-D-I-A-N-S) allowed to testify to present our side of the side story? or we all DENIED access to those court procegures by Cebull? Who really didn't care to hear all the evidence and who wrote his ruling word for word from R-CALF briefs? Which was later appealed on EVERY COUNT. So how could any CANADIAN have stopped the Montana court if there really was a case?

Tam- very little direct evidence was presented...The offer of evidence presented in the briefs and the request for a TRO convinced the Judge that there was a valid issue and that USDA's rule may be endangering the US cattle herd and US consumer- so he issued the TRO until it could come to trial and all evidence presented....They never got to the point of listening to all evidence....The 9th Circuit then issued a very dangerous ruling that US government agencies are above qualatative oversight by the US citizenry- and threw the case out only on that reasoning...

It was my understanding that the Plaintiffs were going to call some Canadian witness(s) to help prove the lack of effectiveness and/or enforcement of your feedban....But if it ever gets to court again that part has pretty much now been proven by the 4 POST feedbans that includes a 4 year old cow.....


And YES oldtimer I have emailed the CFIA about the new rules several times but not because I think we are unsafe from excepting your cattle and beef as I believe our system will catch anything that crosses that border. But I did contact them as I think the Canadian border should open only to those things that the US is willing to except from Canada as we are in the same risk catagory and if they expect to sell your cattle to us then they should have to prove they BELIEVE in the science you are using to sell it to us. :? But by not openning to ours they are saying they don't believe the science so WHY SHOULD WE,OR JAPAN OR KOREA?

Tam- You need to start the Saskatchewan chapter of R-CALF...I'm sure Leo will give you advice on setting one up.... :wink:

And again we have shown only one thing that being we are willing to do the proper testing no matter what we find Oldtimer. The US industry has proved the opposite, what are you hiding and what will you be hiding in about 4 years when the effects of this contaminated feed start showing up???? :wink:

I have not had great faith in USDA's handling of the BSE issue from the first foul up they made on day one...My fear is bigger than yours tho- I would hate to see what will happen to the industry in both countries if/when the first native vCJD case shows up somewhere in N.A.- then you will see consumer reaction that will force government overreaction....I hope I'm being overly pessimistic- but I still feel that they should not have allowed short term economics override long term safety policies....
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Tam, " But I did contact them as I think the Canadian border should open only to those things that the US is willing to except from Canada as we are in the same risk catagory and if they expect to sell your cattle to us then they should have to prove they BELIEVE in the science you are using to sell it to us. But by not openning to ours they are saying they don't believe the science so WHY SHOULD WE,OR JAPAN OR KOREA?"

Maybe we're saying we're not in the same risk category since we're not.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Tam- You need to start the Saskatchewan chapter of R-CALF...I'm sure Leo will give you advice on setting one up.... :wink:

Funny Oldtimer :lol: I like to deal with people I can trust to tell me something that resembles the truth and from what I have heard coming from Leo that is seldom what you get. You Keep paying him to flip flop on the issues like a fish out of water and I'll stay with with the organization I can trust. :wink:


Sandhusker wrote
Maybe we're saying we're not in the same risk category since we're not.
Think what you want Sandhusker But what matters is what your trading partners believe and since other countries are putting restrictions on you as a BSE affected country and those restriction are the same as those on us I'd say they think you are at the same risk. Personally I think you are a higher risk, with the feed ban you have and the problems with industry compliance. If the USDA was doing the proper testing like other countries are I think you would be seeing a larger number of positives in the US. But I doubt that will ever happen because according to one US report the US producers are RELUCTANT to turn over their 4D cattle for testing. BTW Sandhusker would you like to ask the Japanese who they think is a bigger risk, or did you forget they reban your beef after finding BAN product in their shipments. :wink:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Tam, "But I doubt that will ever happen because according to one US report the US producers are RELUCTANT to turn over their 4D cattle for testing."

Really. And what was the source of that report?

Tam, "BTW Sandhusker would you like to ask the Japanese who they think is a bigger risk, or did you forget they reban your beef after finding BAN product in their shipments. "

In case you haven't figured it out yet, Tam, risk isn't important. Trust isn't important. All that matters is trade. We've got to take your beef with a purposefully misidentified risk because of trade. Japan has to take our beef, trust or not, because of trade. Korea can't decide who they will buy from and who they won't because of trade. Trade trumps all concerns - it is the only thing that matters.
 

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