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COOL costs?

Sandhusker

Well-known member
You have 4 main entities; producers, packers, processers, and retailers that deal with boxed beef and/or live cattle.

Boxed beef; Every box of imported beef already is labeled as to it's country of origin. They're already keeping records on lots and batches so basically, all a processer has to do is forward the information. It's a simple matter of putting the proper sticker on the package. If they do their job, the retailer needn't worry about special records as all they have to do is forward the information once again.

Live cattle; We get live cattle from two countries other than the US; Canada and Mexico, and only packers and producers deal with live cattle so you can set aside processers and retailers for now. Today, all live cattle from Mexico are hot branded "M" because of tuburculosis concerns. All feeder cattle from Canada are branded "CAN". All slaughter ready animals from Canada have to go directly from the border to the packer via a sealed truck, bypassing producers. Therefore, producers can have cattle from the US, Canada, or Mexico in their herds. As previously mentioned, the non-US cattle are hot branded to their country of origin, so if the animal does not have a "M" or "CAN" brand, it has to be US. In this existing scenario, requiring producers to keep records on country of origin is really needless as the only record needed is on the animal. The packers trying to require producers to have extensize documents was a BS power play. NCBA should of called them on it, R-CALF did. A US producer can't have a non US animal that isn't branded "M" or "CAN", so why would they have to document that they don't something that they can't have?

When the packer gets their cattle from US producers, there is no doubt the country that those cattle came from. An "M" brand tells them they're from Mexico, "CAN" is Canadian, and everything else is US. No doubt about it - can't be any different as long as the border folks are doing their job. Slaughter ready cattle from Canadian sources come direct from Canada in a sealed truck and have to be kept seperate in the yards. Therefore, there is absolutely no reason each and every bovine at the packers can't be identified as to country of origin today with the records that are kept today.

The packers are really the only ones that need to keep seperate beef from different origin animals and the records to prove it. They tell everybody how difficult and expensive that will be, but that's hogwash. They're already keeping beef seperate for their branded programs. They're already doing it for the Koreans. It's just a matter of scheduling and codes. I used to work in a hydraulics manufacturing plant and we kept seperate pumps for Case, Cat, JD, etc.... while running them on the same line. We might have 30 50 gal pumps to be painted yellow for Cat followed by 10 20 gal. to be painted green for JD, and then 80 50 gal. painted Vickers blue, etc.... Some would have to be packed different and some orders for the same company would go on different trucks. In a typical day, we might have 50 different kinds of pumps for 30 different customers, 10 different packing requirements and 5 different trucks to load them on - much more than any packer would ever do. We used scheduling and codes and had no problem - but then again we all spoke English. All this talk about huge expenses is just huge BS.

Finally, you have the retailers. As long as the processers and packers are doing their jobs, they have no huge needs for records, either. Just pass on the info.

Now just where are all the costs going to come from?
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
I already explained in the other thread where the costs will be coming from, Sandhusker. The segregation costs of other meats is already buried in the premiums received from the sale of those items. And the cost is significant, whether you want to admit it or not. As a teenager, I unloaded sides, quarters and boxed beef for our small town butcher shop. Sorting was a PIA and took about half the time of the unload. Add in another sort, add another half an hour or so to each shipment time. Multiply this effect by all the packers AND all the retailers.

On the retail side, do a search on seafood cool and see what it actually cost the retail stores. New coolers and extra time sorting led most retailers to drop outside of the US seafood all together.

Which is what I believe R-Calf wants anyway. Just another protectionist act thinly veiled by "food safety concerns".

Rod
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
I already explained in the other thread where the costs will be coming from, Sandhusker. The segregation costs of other meats is already buried in the premiums received from the sale of those items. And the cost is significant, whether you want to admit it or not. As a teenager, I unloaded sides, quarters and boxed beef for our small town butcher shop. Sorting was a PIA and took about half the time of the unload. Add in another sort, add another half an hour or so to each shipment time. Multiply this effect by all the packers AND all the retailers.

On the retail side, do a search on seafood cool and see what it actually cost the retail stores. New coolers and extra time sorting led most retailers to drop outside of the US seafood all together.

Which is what I believe R-Calf wants anyway. Just another protectionist act thinly veiled by "food safety concerns".

Rod

I don't buy that anything so simple can be expensive. How much does it cost to ink a colored stamp on a carcass? A five-year old could segregate carcasses in that manner. When it comes time to process them, it's just a matter of scheduling - you group like origin cattle together. Canadian cattle on Fridays. When you're grinding, you just enter a country code on the computer when you dump in the grind and the computer makes the corresponding label for that lot.

The retailer won't have to sort a thing. They look at the label on the box and then match that with a similar label when they break it down - they're already putting their own labels on - they just change the printing to add the country information. They can throw packaged meat from all three countries in the same freezer. People can sort thru them just like they do now.
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
I don't buy that anything so simple can be expensive. How much does it cost to ink a colored stamp on a carcass? A five-year old could segregate carcasses in that manner. When it comes time to process them, it's just a matter of scheduling - you group like origin cattle together. Canadian cattle on Fridays. When you're grinding, you just enter a country code on the computer when you dump in the grind and the computer makes the corresponding label for that lot.

OK, so now take your branded beef or specialty program beef. First, you'll need to sort the few THOUSAND carcasses you have by country of origin. No-one is going to take all carcasses from all the countries and put them all together. It would take too much to find them if they were all intermingled. I worked the stores area at a canola crushing plant for a summer. We had several different machines that took similar but not identical bearings. We didn't just throw all the bearings into a box marked "bearings". We sorted by machine manufacturer (effectively beef's country of origin), then bearing code (effectively the cut of beef or the branded program).

Now to further toss some complexity into the issue, what about ordering? Lets say you have a branded program that beef from Canada AND the US qualifies for. Angus Advantage comes immediately to mind. Now you'll force the retailer to choose between Canadian AA and US AA? What if they don't care? What if there isn't enough US AA to fill an order? Should the retailer take the smaller shipment amount, or "settle" to top up on Canadian product.

Sandhusker said:
The retailer won't have to sort a thing. They look at the label on the box and then match that with a similar label when they break it down - they're already putting their own labels on - they just change the printing to add the country information. They can throw packaged meat from all three countries in the same freezer. People can sort thru them just like they do now.

You and I both know that the customer is going to complain if they have to root through the meat freezer. The retailer certainly knows this. Besides, what about your marketing? If you're promoting a certain product, you don't want it lumped in with the other "crap". It destroys the effectiveness of your marketing. One of the cornerstones of successful marketing is setting your product apart, and retail shelf space is an important part of that.

Rod
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
OK, so now take your branded beef or specialty program beef. First, you'll need to sort the few THOUSAND carcasses you have by country of origin. No-one is going to take all carcasses from all the countries and put them all together. It would take too much to find them if they were all intermingled. I worked the stores area at a canola crushing plant for a summer. We had several different machines that took similar but not identical bearings. We didn't just throw all the bearings into a box marked "bearings". We sorted by machine manufacturer (effectively beef's country of origin), then bearing code (effectively the cut of beef or the branded program).

Still no problem. Dedicate certain plants to certain cattle or schedule them accordingly - US cattle on Mon-Thurs, Canadian Friday morning, Mexican Friday afternoon - maybe every other Friday, whatever works. Canadian carcasses go on the North wall of the cooler, Mexican on the South. Schedule the processing much the same.

Now to further toss some complexity into the issue, what about ordering? Lets say you have a branded program that beef from Canada AND the US qualifies for. Angus Advantage comes immediately to mind. Now you'll force the retailer to choose between Canadian AA and US AA? What if they don't care? What if there isn't enough US AA to fill an order? Should the retailer take the smaller shipment amount, or "settle" to top up on Canadian product.

What's the problem if the retailer gets both? They'll be labeled accordingly when the gets them. If he doesn't want one or the other, that will be because his customers don't want the other and proof that country of origin does make a difference.

You and I both know that the customer is going to complain if they have to root through the meat freezer. The retailer certainly knows this. Besides, what about your marketing? If you're promoting a certain product, you don't want it lumped in with the other "crap". It destroys the effectiveness of your marketing. One of the cornerstones of successful marketing is setting your product apart, and retail shelf space is an important part of that.

Why would they have to root through the freezer?. The last time I looked in the store's meat cooler, the premium stuff was right next to the "regular". Put the Canuck and the US side-by-side. Put a US flag sticker on one and a red maple leaf on the other to make it bone-head easy. After a short time, the retailer will learn which sells better and he'll devote more space for that.
 

Ben Roberts

Well-known member
Sandhusker wrote-"The retailer won't have to sort a thing. They look at the label on the box and then match that with a similar label when they break it down - they're already putting their own labels on - they just change the printing to add the country information. They can throw packaged meat from all three countries in the same freezer. People can sort thru them just like they do now."


Sandhusker, I believe Oldtimer calls this FRAUD!

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Ben Roberts said:
Sandhusker wrote-"The retailer won't have to sort a thing. They look at the label on the box and then match that with a similar label when they break it down - they're already putting their own labels on - they just change the printing to add the country information. They can throw packaged meat from all three countries in the same freezer. People can sort thru them just like they do now."


Sandhusker, I believe Oldtimer calls this FRAUD!

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

How is it fraud? The consumers have product from both countries right before them labeled accordingly. They can make an informed choice and pick what they want.
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the costs Sandhusker. But I would snoop some of the news articles about seafood COOL and how much it cost and the issues that retailers had with it. At least you'll have some idea what you're getting yourselves into.

Rod
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the costs Sandhusker. But I would snoop some of the news articles about seafood COOL and how much it cost and the issues that retailers had with it. At least you'll have some idea what you're getting yourselves into.

Rod

If it's done right with common sense, I don't see any problems. However, you're talking government here...
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the costs Sandhusker. But I would snoop some of the news articles about seafood COOL and how much it cost and the issues that retailers had with it. At least you'll have some idea what you're getting yourselves into.

Rod

Rod, you should consider who you are believing on this. The last time I was looking for salmon, there was Canadian salmon right next to USA salmon IN THE SAME COOLER! The country of origin was right on the box and was just as easy as typing it out on this key board.
 

Ben Roberts

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Ben Roberts said:
Sandhusker wrote-"The retailer won't have to sort a thing. They look at the label on the box and then match that with a similar label when they break it down - they're already putting their own labels on - they just change the printing to add the country information. They can throw packaged meat from all three countries in the same freezer. People can sort thru them just like they do now."


Sandhusker, I believe Oldtimer calls this FRAUD!

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

How is it fraud? The consumers have product from both countries right before them labeled accordingly. They can make an informed choice and pick what they want.








I don't know! You will have to ask Oldtimer.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 

Maple Leaf Angus

Well-known member
As if oldtimer would know anything . . . .

Sandhusker, you wouldn't begin to know where to look to identify the real cost.

The real cost is going to hit the average, conventional U.S. beef operator. And they will feel it as soon as the press gets wind of the 2600 head (using the most conservative method of extrapolation) of BSE ridden carcasses that the American consumer has already eaten.

Not to mention that they are in all liklihood consuming more every day. Futures - in the tank. Live and dressed prices - down the tube. Feeder prices - freefall.

And the grocery buyer is not going to have any problem picking out Canadian product that they know came through a rigourously protected production system.

Then try to tell your customer that your beef is the "safest in the world"! :lol: :lol: :lol: 2600 head!(at minimum) And the SRMs fed back through your meat production chain!!! :shock:

The producer that will come through relatively unharmed will be the Ben Roberts, PPRM's, RobertMac's of the industry. Their customers have learned that they have a safe, TRACIBLE product, not just a generic commodity of uncertain origin and questionable derivative.

What will the "Product of the U.S.A" stamp be worth then? Because the press WILL get this information, sooner or later.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Ben Roberts said:
Sandhusker said:
Ben Roberts said:
Sandhusker wrote-"The retailer won't have to sort a thing. They look at the label on the box and then match that with a similar label when they break it down - they're already putting their own labels on - they just change the printing to add the country information. They can throw packaged meat from all three countries in the same freezer. People can sort thru them just like they do now."


Sandhusker, I believe Oldtimer calls this FRAUD!

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

How is it fraud? The consumers have product from both countries right before them labeled accordingly. They can make an informed choice and pick what they want.








I don't know! You will have to ask Oldtimer.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

Ben-- it isn't fraud if your putting the true product in the package with a true label that matches the true label on the box....If you take a box of Canadian beef that was butchered at your plant in the USA and repackage it and mark it Product of US and Canada- that is not fraud...

Fraud occurs when you take that same piece of beef out of the box - put on a USDA label- and then try to pass it off to the consumer as US beef...

I find it interesting that so many people can't figure out the simple concept of "telling the consumer the TRUTH".... :shock: :roll:
 

Ben Roberts

Well-known member
Oldtimer wrote-"Ben-- it isn't fraud if your putting the true product in the package with a true label that matches the true label on the box....If you take a box of Canadian beef that was butchered at your plant in the USA and repackage it and mark it Product of US and Canada- that is not fraud...

Fraud occurs when you take that same piece of beef out of the box - put on a USDA label- and then try to pass it off to the consumer as US beef...

I find it interesting that so many people can't figure out the simple concept of "telling the consumer the TRUTH"...."


Oldtimer, I truely understand where you are coming from on this issue, I have never said it was right, what i've always said is that it is not FRAUD!

The USDA inspection stamp, is exactly what it implies nothing more nothing less. If you want to read something into it that makes you taller, then fine do so, but that doesen't make it FRAUD! President Roosevelt concluded, "Who knows the meat packing business better than the meatpackers?" He ask the big packers to help write the new meat inspection laws. Although the Meat Inspection Act of 1906 was written by the packers, in away to convince the public, that their meat products were pure and wholesome. The USDA stamp was never ment to imply that the meat came from the USA.

I deal with house-wives every day in my business, in bringing a wholesome, healthy, nutritious product to them and their families produced by a man of integrity. And you, question my intergrity by finding it interesting that I can't figure out the simple concept of "telling the consumer the TRUTH". Telling the consumer the truth is what keeps my operation in business. That same concept is what I was trying to get cattle producers in the USA and Canada to understand.

I find it interesting that you can't understand the simple concept of the USDA inspection stamp! but have to spin it into something else, to fit you and your protectionist organizations agenda.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Maple Leaf Angus said:
As if oldtimer would know anything . . . .

Sandhusker, you wouldn't begin to know where to look to identify the real cost.

The real cost is going to hit the average, conventional U.S. beef operator. And they will feel it as soon as the press gets wind of the 2600 head (using the most conservative method of extrapolation) of BSE ridden carcasses that the American consumer has already eaten.

Not to mention that they are in all liklihood consuming more every day. Futures - in the tank. Live and dressed prices - down the tube. Feeder prices - freefall.

And the grocery buyer is not going to have any problem picking out Canadian product that they know came through a rigourously protected production system.

Then try to tell your customer that your beef is the "safest in the world"! :lol: :lol: :lol: 2600 head!(at minimum) And the SRMs fed back through your meat production chain!!! :shock:

The producer that will come through relatively unharmed will be the Ben Roberts, PPRM's, RobertMac's of the industry. Their customers have learned that they have a safe, TRACIBLE product, not just a generic commodity of uncertain origin and questionable derivative.

What will the "Product of the U.S.A" stamp be worth then? Because the press WILL get this information, sooner or later.

Just what would the presense of absense of COOL mean in your scanario? The same thing would happen regardless - ALL producers would take it in the shorts.

And don't tell me that BS about that wonderful system Canada has. Until you test every animal slaughtered, you can't claim there is no danger of BSE in your beef.
 

Texan

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
When the packer gets their cattle from US producers, there is no doubt the country that those cattle came from. An "M" brand tells them they're from Mexico, "CAN" is Canadian, and everything else is US. No doubt about it - can't be any different as long as the border folks are doing their job.
Who is going to be in charge of brand inspection at packing plants? For free, since you say it won't cost anything?
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Texan said:
Sandhusker said:
When the packer gets their cattle from US producers, there is no doubt the country that those cattle came from. An "M" brand tells them they're from Mexico, "CAN" is Canadian, and everything else is US. No doubt about it - can't be any different as long as the border folks are doing their job.
Who is going to be in charge of brand inspection at packing plants? For free, since you say it won't cost anything?

Why would they need a brand inspector?
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Sandhusker said:
Why would they need a brand inspector?

To make the call on your M and CAN. What if someone from the bar M ships something? IN the winter months, brands can be particularly tough to read.

Rod

First of all, for slaughter scheduling purposes, the packer is going to know how many Mexican cattle they have and what pens they're in - they're not going to be mixed with the general population. Secondly, the Mexican "M" is always on the right hip up by the tailhead. Lastly, Mexican cattle also have a blue metal ear tag.

You guys remind me of SH. You've first decided that you're against something, then you try to find things to justify your position. Guys, this isn't rocket science here.
 
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