• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Cross breeding a mixed herd ? keeping heifers

alabama

Well-known member
Cross breeding a mixed herd ???

A friend of mine that lives about a mile down the road has a herd of about 50 momma cows that are mixed with most being black and some red and some white cows. He has been running Angus bulls for as long as he can remember. He bought the place and the cows from his grand father. They have been keeping heifers to replenish culling losses. He is trying to grow the herd and is currently developing 19 or 20 new heifers. About half of those heifers look like pure Angus and the other half are baldes with 2 red and 2 white heifers.
Well this year he needs a new heifer bull. He has two Angus bulls to breed the main herd but they are the sires of his heifer crop. He still wants to run an Angus bull on the heifers and I agree with that. But I think he needs to replace his oldest bull as he ain’t much of an Angus bull. His granddaddy bought him from at weaning about 5 years ago knowing he was not much but he was cheap.
So if he replaces this bull what bred should he buy to help cross up his cows and add pounds at weaning without having calving trouble. He told me yesterday that he can never remember having to have a calf pulled on his place.
I should also add that he will be keeping the heifer calves from the bull. Now, he was thinking Brangus bull but I am not so sure. It would add a little ear but not much to Angus cows. About ½ his cows show a little ear but not much.
 

alabama

Well-known member
Yes he is going to keep heifers to grow the herd to about 150 and then keep only replacements.
As for now he is selling at the sale barn but he has just moved from a yearround calving season to a 3 month calving season. And as the herd grows he will sell through the video market. He is trying to go the right way with selling his calves and get out of the sale barn but he is a year or two from that yet.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Well..he's on the right track by changing his breeding/calving.

Why not just get an unrelated Angus bull? From what you say he's got mostly black/Angus type based cattle anyway.

If he got a totally diff. blood line he could breed the whole shebang to one bull!
 

efb

Well-known member
Going straight angus is the easiest and most profitable for several reasons. A recent Univ of Arkansas sale barn survey from 2000 to 2005 on nearly 200,000 head of calves showed straight bred angus brought an average $3.26 / cwt price increase. The next highest was black baldies at $1.53 premium. This is pretty easy data for most cattlement to accept. The next data is not as well known or accepted. Some angus genetics have made significant progress in growth. A recent study at Iowa State Univ has shown straight or high percentage angus calves have outgained crossbred calves in feedlots by 0.2 pounds per day. All this information is in the latest newsletter of Gordon Stuckey, Kingman, Kansas.

If you will do some searching, you can find angus bulls that will work well on heifers and still compete very well on weaning and yearling weights with about anything.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
efb said:
Going straight angus is the easiest and most profitable for several reasons. A recent Univ of Arkansas sale barn survey from 2000 to 2005 on nearly 200,000 head of calves showed straight bred angus brought an average $3.26 / cwt price increase. The next highest was black baldies at $1.53 premium. This is pretty easy data for most cattlement to accept. The next data is not as well known or accepted. Some angus genetics have made significant progress in growth. A recent study at Iowa State Univ has shown straight or high percentage angus calves have outgained crossbred calves in feedlots by 0.2 pounds per day. All this information is in the latest newsletter of Gordon Stuckey, Kingman, Kansas.

If you will do some searching, you can find angus bulls that will work well on heifers and still compete very well on weaning and yearling weights with about anything.
Got a link? How did they know they were strait angus?
 

lazy ace

Well-known member
I'll stick my two cents in. I would not over look a red angus bull. If your cattle are mainly black by using a red bull you probably will still get all black calves. You can use him a couple of years and take advantage of totally different bloodlines and then go back to a black angus bull on those daughters. Plus I bet you could find a better red bull for the same amount of money.

If you want to stay black don't overlook some of the black red gene carrier bulls Red Angus breeders are raising. Some times you can find those pretty reasonable at a Red Angus Sale.

have a cold one

lazy ace
 

alabama

Well-known member
He is trying to increase the cross bred vigor. And I have heard it said that there in enough diversity in the Angus bred to cerate crossbred vigor by just changing bloodlines but I am not convinced.
He may get by with using one bull on 20 heifers that are all cycling about the same time and get them bred in 60 days but that is still cutting it close.
And with the 50 cows all coming in about 28 days one may work in there too but his old granddad won’t let him run just one bull.
That old guy is 96 and was raking hay some this summer. He can’t push the clutch in any more so they help him up on the tractor and he just shuts it off when he is finished. He never needs the clutch to turn around. I don’ see how he does it. But he loves it so they let him still help.
 

andybob

Well-known member
If he wants to avoid ear, but have small calves, heterosis. and heat resistance, why not try a Tuli bull? There are a number of breeders within
reasonable distance of Alabama.
http://www.tuli.co.za/
 

Silver

Well-known member
Hard to say what would be best, not knowing all his particulars. But a little simmental never hurt any herd, and I've seen some mighty fine black simmies.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
alabama said:
Yes he is going to keep heifers to grow the herd to about 150 and then keep only replacements.
As for now he is selling at the sale barn but he has just moved from a yearround calving season to a 3 month calving season. And as the herd grows he will sell through the video market. He is trying to go the right way with selling his calves and get out of the sale barn but he is a year or two from that yet.
If they were my cows, I'd go back with angus for another year or two till the cow base is angus , then I'd use a saler bull to make f1 females , then I'd use a Charolais unless the local discount is too big for smokies or rat tails and in that case I would use a Simmental or Gelbvieh. If he dislikes Salers then he could use either of the last two exotics in the place of salers. I personally just like the pelvis structure of a saler in the cow base. They
all come in black except for the Charolais. Actually I realize there have been a few of them that are chocolate but it's a novelty.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
My advice would be to stay with Angus. It is as trouble-free of a way to raise cattle as there is, and you are already off to a good start. If you need more size, the right Angus bull can do it for you without compromising the uniformity of your herd that is already happening. It is never hard to find good replacement heifers from within your own herd with an Angus base.

As Hay Maker would say, "Good luck." :wink:
 

Denny

Well-known member
I would stick with black angus.So many other copy cat black breeds out there now days Black Angus must be okay.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Soapweed and Denny:
:agree:

The genetic base for Black Angus is huge...lots to choose from there for sure. Our calves/cows/bulls are straight black Angus. We never have a problem calving them, breeding them or selling them.

(Still, my favorite breed is Red Angus...but I don't have any)...
 

elwapo

Well-known member
with a gelbvieh bull on your angus cows you will get steers that gain and yield well and females that will produce. I have numberous F1 (balancer) cows in production and they are simply unbeatable.
 

elwapo

Well-known member
cross breeding heterosis is proven! It is the closest thing to a free lunch that you can get in the cattle business.
 

Silver

Well-known member
elwapo said:
with a gelbieh bull on your angus cows you will get steers that gain and yield well and females that will produce. I have numberous F1 (balancer) cows in production and they are simply unbeatable.

I agree. Gelbvieh or Blonde make a beautiful cross with angus, everything stays nice and uniform, and I cant see how anything else could be more 'trouble free'.
 

Brad S

Well-known member
Gelbveigh is the only breed more fertile than the Herf/Angus cross (according to marc). If I read the guestion right, the only type identified is Angus with other red and white cattle. Since the herd is close to Angus right now, I'd stay with Angus. Crossbreeding is easier with a uniform base.

Now I realize uniformity is trump in the southern market, but a crossbred calf is a better animal from trail to rail. I fed several pens of my Leachman sired calves (from leachman sired mommas) right across from several hundred Gardner/AI sired calves. The other owner and I agreed to share data, but the deal fell apart when my crossbreds were close to 5#/day on 5# conversion @ 90 day weigh in. My Leachman bulls were just $1600 bulls.

To those Angus breeders that say there is sufficient diversity in the black Angus breed to not need cross breeding - I say "that's what I've been saying for years." "Simmi, Chi, Stein, the Angus breed vallidates crossbreeding."
 
Top