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Cross Over Subject - Abortion

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OldDog/NewTricks

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Is abortion a big issue for you?

With the appointment of Judge Alito for a seat on the Supreme Court we are hearing all sorts of speeches from left wing politicians and summaries in the news about abortion. But is abortion a front burner issue for you?
 

Red Robin

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Is protecting some one from being killed a big deal??? would it be a big deal if we were killing a minority?? It's the biggest deal. Everyone deserves life.
 

MsSage

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Yes it is a very big issue with me.
I understand the danger women have faced and are facing now BUT life begins at conception....you want hard proof in black and white..sorry cant give you that. All I can give you is what has been placed on my heart.
I use to be pro choice. I choose NOT to have one when at 20 I found myself in a very abusive relationship and with child. I fought him , his family , my step mother even took 2 beatings that should have resulted in the death of the child. He survived as did I. I went through hell and would do it again in a heartbeat.
I even remained pro choice after hearing my Grandmother who passed away 8 years ago brag about dragging my mother to an abortion clinic. She said it was amazing how a woman 7 months pregnant could get out of a moving car so fast.
I was not changed till my 3rd child (Kaitlyn) was born dead. I knew her and loved her and she was taken away from me. As I was laying there holding her after they revived her. OMGAWD the longest 3 mins in my life. I listened to her cry and felt her breathing and move and KNEW she had been my child for the past 9 months. I felt my heartbreak for all the women who have been lied to that the child they have discarded was not alive.
Ask a woman who has gone through an abortion more than 8 years past and see if they tell you the about the hauntings...the crying babies the wondering what that child would have looked like. The pain, the hurt of knowing their child should have been starting school. Maybe had they tried a bit hard or even considered the choice of adoption they would not bear the scars of the regret and pain of knowing what they did.

We have made life so disposable and wonder why kids kill other kids for their shoes.
 

MsSage

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Abortion can be a last resort
The problem is far too many times its the first and only action.
It is a slippery slope I am sure Hollywood is a big part of the problem but so is abortion. You can not devalue life without repercussions.
 

Hanta Yo

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I was pro-choice until I watched "The Silent Scream", a video about watching an ultrasound of a baby being aborted, it wasn't quite 3 mos. into development. Anyone else see it? The video made me sick, sad, and broke my heart. Yes, abortion is an issue with me when it comes to things political.
 

Red Robin

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MsSage said:
Yes it is a very big issue with me.
I understand the danger women have faced and are facing now BUT life begins at conception....you want hard proof in black and white..sorry cant give you that. All I can give you is what has been placed on my heart.
I use to be pro choice. I choose NOT to have one when at 20 I found myself in a very abusive relationship and with child. I fought him , his family , my step mother even took 2 beatings that should have resulted in the death of the child. He survived as did I. I went through hell and would do it again in a heartbeat.
I even remained pro choice after hearing my Grandmother who passed away 8 years ago brag about dragging my mother to an abortion clinic. She said it was amazing how a woman 7 months pregnant could get out of a moving car so fast.
I was not changed till my 3rd child (Kaitlyn) was born dead. I knew her and loved her and she was taken away from me. As I was laying there holding her after they revived her. OMGAWD the longest 3 mins in my life. I listened to her cry and felt her breathing and move and KNEW she had been my child for the past 9 months. I felt my heartbreak for all the women who have been lied to that the child they have discarded was not alive.
Ask a woman who has gone through an abortion more than 8 years past and see if they tell you the about the hauntings...the crying babies the wondering what that child would have looked like. The pain, the hurt of knowing their child should have been starting school. Maybe had they tried a bit hard or even considered the choice of adoption they would not bear the scars of the regret and pain of knowing what they did.

We have made life so disposable and wonder why kids kill other kids for their shoes.
Thanks for sharing MsSage. That is very passionate , honest and true.
 

OldDog/NewTricks

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I have children and I certainly understand your feelings but I remain pro-choice. I've gone over this before. Abortion can be a last resort but it must be a choice, just as you had a choice.

Abortion is a Choce I could not/or would not make for mysef (my Example) but this is America and I beleive each person should have a CHOICE :!:

As for kids who kill other kids for their shoes, I live in a city where this happens weekly and Hollywood and merchandisers (and Paents) are far more guilty for this behavior than abortion.
 

Red Robin

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OldDog/NewTricks said:
I have children and I certainly understand your feelings but I remain pro-choice. I've gone over this before. Abortion can be a last resort but it must be a choice, just as you had a choice.

Abortion is a Choce I could not/or would not make for mysef (my Example) but this is America and I beleive each person should have a CHOICE :!:

As for kids who kill other kids for their shoes, I live in a city where this happens weekly and Hollywood and merchandisers (and Paents) are far more guilty for this behavior than abortion.
Half of the babies aborted are a different sex than their mother. They are not an extension of the mother! The mothers shouldnt' have the choice to kill them as an unwilling victim. The babies never, never, never have a choice! Never! Where is the constitution that protects them? Should the southern states have a right to choose slavery? Should other nations have the soverign right to choose how to govern its people? Even hitler? NO. We as a decent society have the responsibility to protect the rights of the less fortunate from the choices of others...those that can't protect themselves...especially if they are innocent unborn children...How horrible.
 

MsSage

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I beleive each person should have a CHOICE
At what point does the child get a say in the matter? They did not ask to be made.
As far as parents being responsible how can you say that devaluing the life of a child is not part of the problem? In major cities there is an epidemic in lower income parents not having to take responsiblity for their children. They have the kids picked up for school ~fed breakfast & lunch. If they do not have a coat one is bought for the child. All school supplies are furnished by the school INCLUDING uniforms. Dr's and dentists are brought to the school. Parents are taken by school personell to get walfare and food stamps. If you cant get your child up in the morning and they get placed in truancy court YES the Judge and court reporter comes to the school. The school bus picks both parent & child up and takes them to school then after the bus takes the parents BACK home. If you still cant get the child there on time you get a cab to pick up your child after you have been given a new alarmclock radio.
At what point is it the parents job to make sure that child gets what he/she needs? NO they will NOT choose abortion because that will cut the money they get. Could you live on $950 a month if you had your rent paid all utlities are paid~$600 in food stamps~all expenses your child had at school are taken care of. Free bus fare ~holiday dinners are provided. Christmas gifts are bought. You get a 2 week vacation to Disney World every summer.
I could go on with all the benifits the "parents" at my school enjoy.
SO tell me how we get back to responsible parents and still have abortion?
How do we make sure our children are more valuable than anything else in this world?
 

Red Robin

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reader (the Second) said:
MsSage said:
I beleive each person should have a CHOICE
At what point does the child get a say in the matter? They did not ask to be made.
As far as parents being responsible how can you say that devaluing the life of a child is not part of the problem? In major cities there is an epidemic in lower income parents not having to take responsiblity for their children. They have the kids picked up for school ~fed breakfast & lunch. If they do not have a coat one is bought for the child. All school supplies are furnished by the school INCLUDING uniforms. Dr's and dentists are brought to the school. Parents are taken by school personell to get walfare and food stamps. If you cant get your child up in the morning and they get placed in truancy court YES the Judge and court reporter comes to the school. The school bus picks both parent & child up and takes them to school then after the bus takes the parents BACK home. If you still cant get the child there on time you get a cab to pick up your child after you have been given a new alarmclock radio.
At what point is it the parents job to make sure that child gets what he/she needs? NO they will NOT choose abortion because that will cut the money they get. Could you live on $950 a month if you had your rent paid all utlities are paid~$600 in food stamps~all expenses your child had at school are taken care of. Free bus fare ~holiday dinners are provided. Christmas gifts are bought. You get a 2 week vacation to Disney World every summer.
I could go on with all the benifits the "parents" at my school enjoy.
SO tell me how we get back to responsible parents and still have abortion?
How do we make sure our children are more valuable than anything else in this world?

Sounds like you are describing people who DON'T have abortions but have more children than they have any ability or willingness to care for. And some of whom get more money for each child. Or children of children of children. In my area, we are on the third generation of unwed thirteen year olds. Is that really better than abortion?
Life at conception is the true argument. All else is a smoke screen for each position. If it is a human life then we have to protect it.
 

MsSage

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we are on the third generation of unwed thirteen year olds. Is that really better than abortion?
I am not sure where you are BUT in Charlotte we are as well on 3rd and in a couple cases 4th.
Why is it that you either have an abortion or keep it???
I know 4 famlies who have done everything to have children to no avail.
2 of them have tried to adopt but in this area white famlies can NOT adopt black children no matter if they are mixed race which most are.
the other 2 went overseas to adopt children they could afford the high price of travel and adoption costs. How many parents are standing around wanting children and there are no children to be had?
 

Cowpuncher

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We adopted our daughter in 1969 before abortion was the easy way out.

This woman turned out to be "one of a thousand". She has more friends than anyone I have ever met. She now has three children, all with IQ's off the chart.

I think we gave her a good family, a good education and love she might not have had. Some months ago, she met her birth family. They have welcomed her into their family, which is OK with us. (Her birth father was killed in Vietnam). Her birth grandfather said, shortly before he died, that giving up that girl was the biggest mistake he ever made.

How many rare people have been tossed into the dust bin before they ever drew a breath.

Rape, incest and health of the mother are valid reasons to have an abortion.

It is not like there are not a lot of convenient ways to avoid pregnancy now.
 

Maple Leaf Angus

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reader (the Second) said:
No granddaughter of mine should ever have to be pregnant and unwed and without a choice.

So you would value your grandaughter's choice to abort over your great-grand daughter's (or g-son's) choice to live . . . hhhmmm, strange way of thinking.


Why would you accredit her the discretion to make such a huge choice if she lacked the discretion to avoid finding herself in such a situation in the first place?

It seems to me that she made a choice, before the fact.


One thing that we seem to have lost sight of is that our decisions have consequences.
 

Maple Leaf Angus

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reader (the Second) said:
Maple Leaf Angus said:
reader (the Second) said:
No granddaughter of mine should ever have to be pregnant and unwed and without a choice.

So you would value your grandaughter's choice to abort over your great-grand daughter's (or g-son's) choice to live . . . hhhmmm, strange way of thinking.


Why would you accredit her the discretion to make such a huge choice if she lacked the discretion to avoid finding herself in such a situation in the first place?

It seems to me that she made a choice, before the fact.


One thing that we seem to have lost sight of is that our decisions have consequences.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

It makes me ill to hear a man say "she lacked the discretion to avoid finding herself in such a situation in the first place."

Let me make that clear.

I like men but believe me not a one of you should be saying something so silly. Have you NO idea of how birth control can fail? How a girl can be date raped? raped? raped by her father? raped by her cousin?

I don't intend to debate with people who say such stupid and ill considered things.

Take a downer, woman.

You brought your grandaughter into this discussion and that is where I came into it.

You sound a wee mite hysterical in your response, but I answered you anyway.
 
A

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reader (the Second) said:
I like men but believe me not a one of you should be saying something so silly. Have you NO idea of how birth control can fail? How a girl can be date raped? raped? raped by her father? raped by her cousin?

Reader- I really don't think the majority of the population knows how prevalent these occurrences are- and how few ever are reported, let alone prosecuted...If I remember right- I think the figures are like only 1 in every 10 actual rapes is reported....Then there are all the situations involving small children which are extremely difficult to prove-- and then when you do some idiot Judge like the one in Vermont give them 60 day sentences and order treatment for raping a 4 year old........There is no treatment for those types except isolation (behind bars)....
 

CJ

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reader (the Second) said:
Men need to use discretion in what they say or imply about women who get themselves in this situation since men are at least 50% responsible
Reader, this brings to mind something else. You are correct-men are 50% responsible for the situation. You say the choice should be the womans' What input do you believe the father of the child should have in this decision? If he is able/willing to be responsible for the welfare of the child, should his opinion matter?
 

WB

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For those that think there is nobody to adopt minority and mixed race babies you could not be more wrong. I know of two family freinds who have adopted a total of five just in the last few years.


As for abortion: Back in my college years I was having a discussion with a friend about this subject as a young woman that we knew had just had a baby. He said that if he had been the father that he would have had the baby aborted. After having seen the baby I asked him if he could have taken an ax and smashed that babys skull as that is what abortion would have done. he quietly admitted that he couldn't do something like that.

That young mother in the story later found someone and is happily married to this day.

Abortion is a slippery slope and a cowards way out just like doctor assisted suicide.
 

CJ

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Reader, it's late and I'm not thinking as clearly as I should be to discuss this. I'll get back to you with some thoughts later. Have a good night.
 

Mrs.Greg

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I'm in favor of Choice,the choices being what you do with a child AFTER its born...Keep it and give it the best home you can or put it up for adoption and let it have the best home you can give it.!!!
 

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